MERGED: Jetstar Pilot Cadet Program
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@Damien1989 - I fly out of YMMB and in the past did some training with General Flying Services, which is now part of OAA/CAE.
Over the years I've met quite a few from this place, including a couple of ex-Swinburne OAA/CAE instructors I've flown with. Also meet and see people around at places like the AeroBar.
My older son runs an A320 Sim business. I have met a couple of groups of Jetstar cadets who have spent time in the sim prior to leaving for England for their A320 Type Ratings.
When the former cadets start at Jetstar they are on "flex contracts", which may mean fewer hours. Some buy time in the sim for extra A320 experience and to polish their skills and procedures.
One of the A320 Sim instructors is a recent Jetstar cadet who is now a First Officer on the A320. He is very happy with how things turned out. His level of professionalism, knowledge and attitude are very impressive.
Back to my earlier post, I don't recall hearing any former Jetstar cadet here on Pprune complaining?
Over the years I've met quite a few from this place, including a couple of ex-Swinburne OAA/CAE instructors I've flown with. Also meet and see people around at places like the AeroBar.
My older son runs an A320 Sim business. I have met a couple of groups of Jetstar cadets who have spent time in the sim prior to leaving for England for their A320 Type Ratings.
When the former cadets start at Jetstar they are on "flex contracts", which may mean fewer hours. Some buy time in the sim for extra A320 experience and to polish their skills and procedures.
One of the A320 Sim instructors is a recent Jetstar cadet who is now a First Officer on the A320. He is very happy with how things turned out. His level of professionalism, knowledge and attitude are very impressive.
Back to my earlier post, I don't recall hearing any former Jetstar cadet here on Pprune complaining?
Over a day and 19 posts later and still waiting to see what flying experience/job Flyboast North has. Perhaps he/she is out there busy doing some solo consolidation after his/her first solo?
peterc005: Back to my earlier post, I don't recall hearing any former Jetstar cadet here on PPRuNe complaining?
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The other side of that coin is you don't see any cadets on here saying how good it is either.
As a matter of fact I did come across someone on here about 2 years ago who was in the middle of completing the course and was answering questions. He hadn't experienced any significant problems with it at all.
My older son runs an A320 Sim business. I have met a couple of groups of Jetstar cadets who have spent time in the sim prior to leaving for England for their A320 Type Ratings.
When the former cadets start at Jetstar they are on "flex contracts", which may mean fewer hours. Some buy time in the sim for extra A320 experience and to polish their skills and procedures.
When the former cadets start at Jetstar they are on "flex contracts", which may mean fewer hours. Some buy time in the sim for extra A320 experience and to polish their skills and procedures.
Back to my earlier post, I don't recall hearing any former Jetstar cadet here on PPRuNe complaining?
Also as I mentioned many people like their anonymity on here and there aren't that many cadets around. It doesn't take long to figure out who one might be if they did post. Again they may not want that to happen, particularly if they are bagging the course.
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mcgrath50 im not sure where you're getting this social networking agreement thing from, unless it is new. From what I know, there was nothing like this for cadets from 2010-2012. May have changed in recent years though
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Hello Flyboat, it's your old friend here. Yeah that's right it's me, Bing.
Firstly, thanks very much for giving me the right of reply via PM before getting back on here in public and getting stuck in. Not particularly concerning given your questionable capacity, however I thought you'd be better than that. As you'll find out when you get your first flying job, you can't always sit here day-in day-out monitoring the forum. Some of us are at work flying aeroplanes, which means we can't utilise the PM system like an instant messenger. But you'll understand that in time, or perhaps you won't.
I did want to meet up - no aggression, no ill will, most certainly not to collect your $100. I'd just like to get your perspective on what makes you tick. You want to be a professional pilot yet you're here denigrating those who already are with a counterargument that's sounding more diva than voice of reason.
Between yourself and PeterC, you're the only two out of the lot spruiking the cadetship, yet neither of you are cadets! Peter clearly has a massive conflict of interest so everything he says can be discounted instantly. As for you, you have this uncanny ability to be able to respond within 30 seconds to a cheap argument, yet when someone genuinely wants you to have a grown up conversation or talk about your experience you go very quiet all of a sudden.
I sincerely hope that any aspiring cadet doesn't make it this far in the thread to find all of this drivel, but on the off chance they do, I recommend talking to a real life pilot directly rather than getting information from here. I know a few cadets, and they're all good blokes. Being a cadet doesn't make you a wanka, it's your attitude that does. Importantly too, if you get knocked back, life doesn't end. There are a hundred ways to skin a cat, and despite FBN's insider predictions, you can get into a jet within 5 years. I did it, as did most of my GA mates, it's all about timing, nothing else. Timing affects cadets too, just ask the QF guys who were sent to find their own job and will never go back to QF, or the current jetstar guys.
Flyboat, I hope you find what you're looking for but please don't influence the decisions of others with your illogical rubbish. I''ll respond to any reasonable questions and arguments from you but you won't hear from me if you post a prepubescent cheap shot again.
In the meantime, I suggest you go and book yourself a TIF and see if you even like what you so desperately want.
Firstly, thanks very much for giving me the right of reply via PM before getting back on here in public and getting stuck in. Not particularly concerning given your questionable capacity, however I thought you'd be better than that. As you'll find out when you get your first flying job, you can't always sit here day-in day-out monitoring the forum. Some of us are at work flying aeroplanes, which means we can't utilise the PM system like an instant messenger. But you'll understand that in time, or perhaps you won't.
I did want to meet up - no aggression, no ill will, most certainly not to collect your $100. I'd just like to get your perspective on what makes you tick. You want to be a professional pilot yet you're here denigrating those who already are with a counterargument that's sounding more diva than voice of reason.
Between yourself and PeterC, you're the only two out of the lot spruiking the cadetship, yet neither of you are cadets! Peter clearly has a massive conflict of interest so everything he says can be discounted instantly. As for you, you have this uncanny ability to be able to respond within 30 seconds to a cheap argument, yet when someone genuinely wants you to have a grown up conversation or talk about your experience you go very quiet all of a sudden.
I sincerely hope that any aspiring cadet doesn't make it this far in the thread to find all of this drivel, but on the off chance they do, I recommend talking to a real life pilot directly rather than getting information from here. I know a few cadets, and they're all good blokes. Being a cadet doesn't make you a wanka, it's your attitude that does. Importantly too, if you get knocked back, life doesn't end. There are a hundred ways to skin a cat, and despite FBN's insider predictions, you can get into a jet within 5 years. I did it, as did most of my GA mates, it's all about timing, nothing else. Timing affects cadets too, just ask the QF guys who were sent to find their own job and will never go back to QF, or the current jetstar guys.
Flyboat, I hope you find what you're looking for but please don't influence the decisions of others with your illogical rubbish. I''ll respond to any reasonable questions and arguments from you but you won't hear from me if you post a prepubescent cheap shot again.
In the meantime, I suggest you go and book yourself a TIF and see if you even like what you so desperately want.
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Bing is back with his smarty pants mouth.
You claim to hold a bachelors and masters degrees, be 33 years old , and fly a 737 for either Virgin or Qantas, having progressed there after five years in "GA". A powerful CV to say the least. And you now state to you will resign your airline job and return to "GA".
You really are in Disneyland without a ticket.
In my view your CV is a complete fabrication, and that is why I made the $100 bet. But after initially accepting the bet you now hide, you do however continue with your smarty pants mouth via this anonymous BB.
The Qantas cadets were all employed by Qlink, many are now captains there. The Q cadets still in training were given the option to transfer over to the Jetstar upon course completion - many took that.
Sure come cadets fail , some elect to leave , some get thrown out but overall the conversion to airline employment is over 90% and in most courses over 95%. Pretty much as good as it gets really, demanding courses in short time periods , so they must be getting the selection right.
Contrast this with say other large groups of CPL grads say the graduating classes say the 2010 to 2012 classes from Swin , Griff , UNSW. OK the flying schools take one or two a year but typically they have 30 to 40 completing each year. What % from the 2010 classes are still actively pursuing a "piloting" career - I would suggest 30% would be an overly optimistic figure.
I have been told that the majority of graduates from these programs never obtain a pilot job , never actually do one paid hour as a commercial pilot. The training/education is quite good - the issue is the lack of opportunity at the lower end of GA.
These places typically tell prospective students they have all sorts of alliances with airlines, that their students get preference - just tall tales really. Or that doing their course will qualify them to be a "regional airlines first officer" and they put this in black and white - amazing.
What they don't tell them is that within 12 months of graduation at least half of CPL class has given up on a career of being a pilot. They have realized that even in an average market the bottom end of GA is pretty much a slave system, and they aren't prepared to join the fray.
You claim to hold a bachelors and masters degrees, be 33 years old , and fly a 737 for either Virgin or Qantas, having progressed there after five years in "GA". A powerful CV to say the least. And you now state to you will resign your airline job and return to "GA".
You really are in Disneyland without a ticket.
In my view your CV is a complete fabrication, and that is why I made the $100 bet. But after initially accepting the bet you now hide, you do however continue with your smarty pants mouth via this anonymous BB.
The Qantas cadets were all employed by Qlink, many are now captains there. The Q cadets still in training were given the option to transfer over to the Jetstar upon course completion - many took that.
Sure come cadets fail , some elect to leave , some get thrown out but overall the conversion to airline employment is over 90% and in most courses over 95%. Pretty much as good as it gets really, demanding courses in short time periods , so they must be getting the selection right.
Contrast this with say other large groups of CPL grads say the graduating classes say the 2010 to 2012 classes from Swin , Griff , UNSW. OK the flying schools take one or two a year but typically they have 30 to 40 completing each year. What % from the 2010 classes are still actively pursuing a "piloting" career - I would suggest 30% would be an overly optimistic figure.
I have been told that the majority of graduates from these programs never obtain a pilot job , never actually do one paid hour as a commercial pilot. The training/education is quite good - the issue is the lack of opportunity at the lower end of GA.
These places typically tell prospective students they have all sorts of alliances with airlines, that their students get preference - just tall tales really. Or that doing their course will qualify them to be a "regional airlines first officer" and they put this in black and white - amazing.
What they don't tell them is that within 12 months of graduation at least half of CPL class has given up on a career of being a pilot. They have realized that even in an average market the bottom end of GA is pretty much a slave system, and they aren't prepared to join the fray.
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Like I said Flyboat, no more reaction from me to the dribble, but I'd like you to address the points below.
False. Yes there were a few that went to link, the rest went elsewhere from Metros, King Airs and Brasilias to, god forbid, Islanders. I know some of these people personally. They're never going to Qantas. How many do you know? How many went to JQ? Do you have a figure? Post it here please.
Again, just post up the source of the figures please.
How did you get to those figures? Just a brief summary will do.
Told by whom? Figures please.
So in summary from the above 3 quotes: 50% get a job, the majority never obtain a job, but 30% actively pursue a career? Show me how you got these numbers and what they mean.
If you think any of this is out of context, the full post is above.
If you can achieve any of the above, please go ahead.
The Qantas cadets were all employed by Qlink, many are now captains there. The Q cadets still in training were given the option to transfer over to the Jetstar upon course completion - many took that.
the conversion to airline employment is over 90% and in most courses over 95%
OK the flying schools take one or two a year but typically they have 30 to 40 completing each year. What % from the 2010 classes are still actively pursuing a "piloting" career - I would suggest 30% would be an overly optimistic figure.
I have been told that the majority of graduates from these programs never obtain a pilot job , never actually do one paid hour as a commercial pilot
What they don't tell them is that within 12 months of graduation at least half of CPL class has given up on a career of being a pilot. They have realized that even in an average market the bottom end of GA is pretty much a slave system, and they aren't prepared to join the fray.
If you think any of this is out of context, the full post is above.
If you can achieve any of the above, please go ahead.
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100% of 2010 QF cadets are working in GA with no hope of QF or link got to wait about 5+years. 2009 QF has some in link and some in JQ(ACP), half of them worked in GA (FI) before 320 rating.
Most of 2008 QF worked as FI at OAA till 2012 and went to Link (Traineeship).
Jq1-3all on line with JQ. ( ones who did not kicked out)
Half of JQ4 on line, some doing endo, some still waiting.( 1 got boot)
Jq5 told next match endo. ( 1 got boot)
Jq6,7,8 no hope.
9 and 10 postponed ( canned)
Most of 2008 QF worked as FI at OAA till 2012 and went to Link (Traineeship).
Jq1-3all on line with JQ. ( ones who did not kicked out)
Half of JQ4 on line, some doing endo, some still waiting.( 1 got boot)
Jq5 told next match endo. ( 1 got boot)
Jq6,7,8 no hope.
9 and 10 postponed ( canned)
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I think you will find that there were no QF cadets post 2008 , in terms of commencing on the program from 2009 onwards.
Or if there were any QF classes commencing post 2008 , really just "token" numbers to keep the program alive.
2007 was the year of the big ramp up for the QF cadetship, so reasonable numbers commencing in 2008 but it all went south after that.
There was a group of 50 selected to commence in 2009 , subsequently reduced to 5 , then subsequently reduced to zero
So I am not sure what you mean with your dates ? , are talking about years of commencement or completion ?
What I was saying was that out of the say 2010/11 cohort at the aviation degree Unis , you would find around 30% still actively pursuing pilot careers at most. And that 12 months post-course at least 50% would have dropped out, most grads never to us the CPL to earn a single solitary cent.
You are thinking of the QF cadetship prior to when work exp was done with Qlink. The farming out of cadets to Mac, Air North , Skippers etc ceased from around 05/06 from that point on all QF cadets went to Qlink. Much easier to manage.
So there was a job for them at the end of training, sometimes there was a wait, but such is life. A limo and red carpet to pick you up to on the day of completion of your training was never part of the deal
As you know over last mainline class was January 2009. So cadets from that point on just stayed with Qlink, many now captains, or moved on to other airlines.
Jetstar commence cadetship mid 2010, and positions in this program offered to all current QF cadets doing training at Swinburne. About half take it, and get RPL based on how much they have done. The rest elect to remain in the QF systems obviously hoping for a turnaround at QF mainline, and proceed to Qlink.
Interestingly the two Unis involved with the QF cadetship , Swinburne and Griffith keep plugging it ,and how they have been selected to run the "Qantas Cadetship" for years after it closed.
With regard to Jetstar program both flying schools told there will be no mid-year intake this year. Current Jetstar cadets not told anything as is appropriate , any decisions about their commencement will be made when they have completed. Jetstar want them to do A320 endo's just prior to commencing line training, so that is one reason for a delay.
QF did initiate a hiring freeze for all non-QF pilots at Jetstar franchises back in March, as they see this as a potential LWOP etc destination for QF pilots , they stay "in" the system , avoid redundancy payouts etc. But even in four weeks this has already been relaxed and some of the franchises have put on "outsiders" (meaning not a cadet or QF transfer).
Sure QF will have to reduce numbers but they have five (soon to be six) different Jetstar franchises to soak up those who wish to go there, same deal with Emirates who clearly could take large numbers.
So you might even find that the decision to not to run a mid-year Jetstar course is reversed, as was the "hiring freeze" at other Jetstar franchises.
Or if there were any QF classes commencing post 2008 , really just "token" numbers to keep the program alive.
2007 was the year of the big ramp up for the QF cadetship, so reasonable numbers commencing in 2008 but it all went south after that.
There was a group of 50 selected to commence in 2009 , subsequently reduced to 5 , then subsequently reduced to zero
So I am not sure what you mean with your dates ? , are talking about years of commencement or completion ?
What I was saying was that out of the say 2010/11 cohort at the aviation degree Unis , you would find around 30% still actively pursuing pilot careers at most. And that 12 months post-course at least 50% would have dropped out, most grads never to us the CPL to earn a single solitary cent.
You are thinking of the QF cadetship prior to when work exp was done with Qlink. The farming out of cadets to Mac, Air North , Skippers etc ceased from around 05/06 from that point on all QF cadets went to Qlink. Much easier to manage.
So there was a job for them at the end of training, sometimes there was a wait, but such is life. A limo and red carpet to pick you up to on the day of completion of your training was never part of the deal
As you know over last mainline class was January 2009. So cadets from that point on just stayed with Qlink, many now captains, or moved on to other airlines.
Jetstar commence cadetship mid 2010, and positions in this program offered to all current QF cadets doing training at Swinburne. About half take it, and get RPL based on how much they have done. The rest elect to remain in the QF systems obviously hoping for a turnaround at QF mainline, and proceed to Qlink.
Interestingly the two Unis involved with the QF cadetship , Swinburne and Griffith keep plugging it ,and how they have been selected to run the "Qantas Cadetship" for years after it closed.
With regard to Jetstar program both flying schools told there will be no mid-year intake this year. Current Jetstar cadets not told anything as is appropriate , any decisions about their commencement will be made when they have completed. Jetstar want them to do A320 endo's just prior to commencing line training, so that is one reason for a delay.
QF did initiate a hiring freeze for all non-QF pilots at Jetstar franchises back in March, as they see this as a potential LWOP etc destination for QF pilots , they stay "in" the system , avoid redundancy payouts etc. But even in four weeks this has already been relaxed and some of the franchises have put on "outsiders" (meaning not a cadet or QF transfer).
Sure QF will have to reduce numbers but they have five (soon to be six) different Jetstar franchises to soak up those who wish to go there, same deal with Emirates who clearly could take large numbers.
So you might even find that the decision to not to run a mid-year Jetstar course is reversed, as was the "hiring freeze" at other Jetstar franchises.
Last edited by Flyboat North; 11th Apr 2014 at 05:25.
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Flyboat,
So if jetstar only take 2-3% of the applicants! the cream of the crop etc then what are the rest of us silly peasants supposed to do? Give up our dreams of being pilots?
If that was me being rejected from a cadetship I sure as hell wouldn't let my faith be decided by some guy from HR.
So if jetstar only take 2-3% of the applicants! the cream of the crop etc then what are the rest of us silly peasants supposed to do? Give up our dreams of being pilots?
If that was me being rejected from a cadetship I sure as hell wouldn't let my faith be decided by some guy from HR.
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Well it is a free country and people can do what they please.
The point is with CPLs/Av degrees etc, many people find themselves in their early twenties with a CPL/IR/Av Degree and a six figure HECS debt. Their employment prospects are virtually zero, no instructing jobs in the city and they have never been to the outback, that is why 50% drop out within twelve months. So they are on the dole whilst their cohorts from secondary school have started grad jobs in the $60K to $90K range.
Take a look at the advertising , you had the two Qantas cadet Unis promote the program for years after it has closed down, also telling potential students that at the end of three years you can be a "regional airline first officer" - just complete BS.
One Uni now promoting it's exclusive "Cathay/ Our Uni pilot cadetship" - the program has been closed for nearly a year, it was never an "exclusive" that this uni had anyway. People who do not have aviation contacts/family believe the fantasy stories perpetuated by the training organizations.
Heard one Uni got a few pilots along from an airline that has never had a crash - saying to the 300 assembled for the info night " there is no reason why we couldn't take 60% of the people in this room" - three years on post GFC , said airline had in fact taken four or five from this course. Yes you guessed correct the same Uni where you had to be a current student before actually applying to the QF Cadetship.
The reality is that you will have at best a 20% chance of achieving the goal in ten years - but people will see what they wish to see. And I think that is one reason why you see so much angst with regard to these programs, from people in the GA sector still hanging on to a "dream" - not prepared to let go and accept reality.
So what I would suggest is.
1. Join the ADF in any of three services via an ADFA degree in direct from school
2. Apply for cadetships , but in the mean time gain a skillset that you can actually get well paid work from , whether that be via a Uni Degree or trade or some other mechanism - the plan B
3. Keep apply for cadetships you are likely to luck out eventually, and keep gaining experience in your profession/tech trade. In the event that you are considering self fund choose a prof /tech trade that is highly "transportable" , allied health , IT , Eng , Elec/mech tech stuff.
4. Consider ADF trade to set up your back up plan B, tech electronics trades - lots of advantages over civilian trade
5. Self fund if you wish but don't do it without the backup plan , otherwise you just end up at the age of 21/22 just another unemployed GA pilot and likely never use your licence in anger.
Has anyone ever met anyone who was glad they did an aviation degree ?
The point is with CPLs/Av degrees etc, many people find themselves in their early twenties with a CPL/IR/Av Degree and a six figure HECS debt. Their employment prospects are virtually zero, no instructing jobs in the city and they have never been to the outback, that is why 50% drop out within twelve months. So they are on the dole whilst their cohorts from secondary school have started grad jobs in the $60K to $90K range.
Take a look at the advertising , you had the two Qantas cadet Unis promote the program for years after it has closed down, also telling potential students that at the end of three years you can be a "regional airline first officer" - just complete BS.
One Uni now promoting it's exclusive "Cathay/ Our Uni pilot cadetship" - the program has been closed for nearly a year, it was never an "exclusive" that this uni had anyway. People who do not have aviation contacts/family believe the fantasy stories perpetuated by the training organizations.
Heard one Uni got a few pilots along from an airline that has never had a crash - saying to the 300 assembled for the info night " there is no reason why we couldn't take 60% of the people in this room" - three years on post GFC , said airline had in fact taken four or five from this course. Yes you guessed correct the same Uni where you had to be a current student before actually applying to the QF Cadetship.
The reality is that you will have at best a 20% chance of achieving the goal in ten years - but people will see what they wish to see. And I think that is one reason why you see so much angst with regard to these programs, from people in the GA sector still hanging on to a "dream" - not prepared to let go and accept reality.
So what I would suggest is.
1. Join the ADF in any of three services via an ADFA degree in direct from school
2. Apply for cadetships , but in the mean time gain a skillset that you can actually get well paid work from , whether that be via a Uni Degree or trade or some other mechanism - the plan B
3. Keep apply for cadetships you are likely to luck out eventually, and keep gaining experience in your profession/tech trade. In the event that you are considering self fund choose a prof /tech trade that is highly "transportable" , allied health , IT , Eng , Elec/mech tech stuff.
4. Consider ADF trade to set up your back up plan B, tech electronics trades - lots of advantages over civilian trade
5. Self fund if you wish but don't do it without the backup plan , otherwise you just end up at the age of 21/22 just another unemployed GA pilot and likely never use your licence in anger.
Has anyone ever met anyone who was glad they did an aviation degree ?
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Flyboat,
Who told you that it is hard to get a job in GA? Virtually zero? You are quite simply uninformed.
Yes you have to go "BUSH"
This bush you are talking about are still small towns and communities. To be honest you grow to despise big towns with all the traffic and general commotion.
It simple to get a job in GA. Go up north and knock on some doors. Don't be a sheltered aerosexual from Sydney sending emails to all the companies. If you are a someone who can sit down for a beer and talk about **** rather than aviation then you will get a job if you put your mind to it.
The reality is that you have no idea. Although I totally agree with you about the aviation degrees. What a waste of time!
Who told you that it is hard to get a job in GA? Virtually zero? You are quite simply uninformed.
Yes you have to go "BUSH"
This bush you are talking about are still small towns and communities. To be honest you grow to despise big towns with all the traffic and general commotion. It simple to get a job in GA. Go up north and knock on some doors. Don't be a sheltered aerosexual from Sydney sending emails to all the companies. If you are a someone who can sit down for a beer and talk about **** rather than aviation then you will get a job if you put your mind to it.
The reality is that you have no idea. Although I totally agree with you about the aviation degrees. What a waste of time!
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FBN
Flyboat North
Who currently signs your paycheck?
I genuinely ask this because you seem to have an inside line to the inner workings of the recruiting departments of all the majors. Is there more detailed information that you can bestow upon us mere mortals?
Who currently signs your paycheck?
I genuinely ask this because you seem to have an inside line to the inner workings of the recruiting departments of all the majors. Is there more detailed information that you can bestow upon us mere mortals?
Last edited by Strobe Runner; 11th Apr 2014 at 13:18.
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fbn is piss and wind. dont know why you guys bother. he cant argue against any points made by others and continues off on his own little tangents. probably to try and make himself feel better about being in a 100k hole with no job.
Having met the bloke around mb, I'm gonna go ahead and guess that he won't tell you his current aviation status