MERGED: Jetstar Pilot Cadet Program
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Flyboat north, honest question
Flyboat,
Who told you that it is hard to get a job in GA? Virtually zero? You are quite simply uninformed.
Who told you that it is hard to get a job in GA? Virtually zero? You are quite simply uninformed.
Who currently signs your paycheck?
fbn is piss and wind
Stop stalling FBN!
Having met the bloke around mb, I'm gonna go ahead and guess that he won't tell you his current aviation status
So he is a real person and not just a troll? Interesting
FPVdude spill the beans! Does this guy even have a CPL?
Bullying / personal obsessions...?
You're kidding, right?
FBN has a very polarised opinion, is clearly poorly informed in many areas of his argument (especially about GA) and writes with an unbelievably arrogant tone - I think that being called to justify his credentials and thereby lend weight to his case is very fair...
If he wants respect, he should show some to others here - rather than be a prissy little sh!tstirrer...
You're kidding, right?
FBN has a very polarised opinion, is clearly poorly informed in many areas of his argument (especially about GA) and writes with an unbelievably arrogant tone - I think that being called to justify his credentials and thereby lend weight to his case is very fair...
If he wants respect, he should show some to others here - rather than be a prissy little sh!tstirrer...
Join Date: Apr 2013
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Cadets to $100K
If the other thread is true it looks like the Junior FO at Jetstar will rise to a base of at least $80K , allow some overtime/allowances this puts you comfortably over $100K
Not a bad pay check 18 months out of high school, you might think , considering the average for a Uni grad is low 60s , and on average a 3.5 year course there.
I think it would be interesting if perhaps some of the graduating cohort from Swinburne or Griffith from 2012 or 2011 could give an accurate summary of grad destinations, success rate.
The data that I hear around the traps is that apart from the few , likely a maximum of 20% who are taking the instructor route in the Capitals the employment outcomes are pretty hopeless.
Certain to stay that way for a few years with the magic man at Virgin losing hundreds of mill, QF a half nose behind , and the QF RIN people moving over to Jestar.
The advertising from both Unis tell you that a reasonable graduate expectation is a "regional airline first officer" as we know that just doesn't happen. One Uni actually claims you will be qualified to be a "maritime search and rescue pilot" - bizarre claims really that that have no basis in reality. But what can you expect when Griffith is touting it's exclusive Cathay Aviation Griffith Pilot cadetship ?
It is all about filling quoto's and it is a shame to see Aust Unis give clearly incorrect information to potential students. Most other faculties don't engage in that kind of behavior
The Cathay advanced program has been closed for well over a year , and there is no current plan to open it again.
A shame that young people often believe all this blatantly incorrect advertising , and find themselves in pile of debt , a degree and license where they are effectively unemployable.
Good news for the JStar cadets in training though - very hefty payrise there.
If the other thread is true it looks like the Junior FO at Jetstar will rise to a base of at least $80K , allow some overtime/allowances this puts you comfortably over $100K
Not a bad pay check 18 months out of high school, you might think , considering the average for a Uni grad is low 60s , and on average a 3.5 year course there.
I think it would be interesting if perhaps some of the graduating cohort from Swinburne or Griffith from 2012 or 2011 could give an accurate summary of grad destinations, success rate.
The data that I hear around the traps is that apart from the few , likely a maximum of 20% who are taking the instructor route in the Capitals the employment outcomes are pretty hopeless.
Certain to stay that way for a few years with the magic man at Virgin losing hundreds of mill, QF a half nose behind , and the QF RIN people moving over to Jestar.
The advertising from both Unis tell you that a reasonable graduate expectation is a "regional airline first officer" as we know that just doesn't happen. One Uni actually claims you will be qualified to be a "maritime search and rescue pilot" - bizarre claims really that that have no basis in reality. But what can you expect when Griffith is touting it's exclusive Cathay Aviation Griffith Pilot cadetship ?
It is all about filling quoto's and it is a shame to see Aust Unis give clearly incorrect information to potential students. Most other faculties don't engage in that kind of behavior
The Cathay advanced program has been closed for well over a year , and there is no current plan to open it again.
A shame that young people often believe all this blatantly incorrect advertising , and find themselves in pile of debt , a degree and license where they are effectively unemployable.
Good news for the JStar cadets in training though - very hefty payrise there.
You'll have no arguments from me the way universities advertise these courses is misguided at best and fraudulent at worst.
Out of my graduating cohort when we were a year after graduation. The stats were roughly:
Students on 1st day of course: ~80
Students at the end of course: ~40
Students who completed and looked for flying work: ~25
Students who got jobs as instructors: 10-15
Students who went 'up North': 3
Students who got a job 'up North': 3
Students who got into cadet/traineeships after graduation: ~10
My thesis on why there is such a huge drop out and why so few complete the course on time is partly the disorganisation of the course and partly that many people were taken in by the flashy advertising in university guides and didn't have the dedication to make it through and out into the industry.
But as you can see of those who did have the motivation to battle through the disorganisation and complete on time just about all are employed. Everyone who went up north got a gig. It wasn't easy for anyone and I'm certainly not saying these jobs came because of the degree.
What I am saying is you can get a job in GA.
Out of my graduating cohort when we were a year after graduation. The stats were roughly:
Students on 1st day of course: ~80
Students at the end of course: ~40
Students who completed and looked for flying work: ~25
Students who got jobs as instructors: 10-15
Students who went 'up North': 3
Students who got a job 'up North': 3
Students who got into cadet/traineeships after graduation: ~10
My thesis on why there is such a huge drop out and why so few complete the course on time is partly the disorganisation of the course and partly that many people were taken in by the flashy advertising in university guides and didn't have the dedication to make it through and out into the industry.
But as you can see of those who did have the motivation to battle through the disorganisation and complete on time just about all are employed. Everyone who went up north got a gig. It wasn't easy for anyone and I'm certainly not saying these jobs came because of the degree.
What I am saying is you can get a job in GA.
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It's a shame that Universities resort to spivvy advertising, as in past years , and I am sure it is still true of most faculties at most Unis you will get a reasonably accurate appraisal of the employment situation for graduates of their discipline.
One of the Uni Aviation Heads in fact used to publish research papers on Women's menstrual cycles before he decided to be an "aviation expert".
The data you present is interesting about what I would have thought. Sounds a little high on the instructor/cadets numbers but you know the cohort not me.
I don't imagine they would be making any dint on their $100K HECs for a number of years, working the desk employed as a casual flying instructor.
True a lot of the Uni/Av grads got a good run from the advanced cadetships, but that is over now, Jetstar advanced shut a few years back, Cathay Advanced closed for about 12 months, Qlink just recently. (Also note that the famed exclusive rolled gold "Griffith Aviation Cathay Pacific Cadetship" is was also known as the Cathay Advanced with no advantage to Griffith students )
You can always get lucky as one Swinburne grad who has just completed A320 training at one of the overseas Jetstar franchises did (a local cadet had failed and they needed someone quick) - but that doesn't happen very often.
The other tangible that people have to consider is that the RAAF is very overstocked with aircrew atm (nowhere to go) , hence the introduction of the "gate" for those who pass BFTS. 120 to 150 are "winged" in the ADF every year, and you are going to have to compete against them at the other end for jobs.
I think I will go read a biology book right now.
One of the Uni Aviation Heads in fact used to publish research papers on Women's menstrual cycles before he decided to be an "aviation expert".
The data you present is interesting about what I would have thought. Sounds a little high on the instructor/cadets numbers but you know the cohort not me.
I don't imagine they would be making any dint on their $100K HECs for a number of years, working the desk employed as a casual flying instructor.
True a lot of the Uni/Av grads got a good run from the advanced cadetships, but that is over now, Jetstar advanced shut a few years back, Cathay Advanced closed for about 12 months, Qlink just recently. (Also note that the famed exclusive rolled gold "Griffith Aviation Cathay Pacific Cadetship" is was also known as the Cathay Advanced with no advantage to Griffith students )
You can always get lucky as one Swinburne grad who has just completed A320 training at one of the overseas Jetstar franchises did (a local cadet had failed and they needed someone quick) - but that doesn't happen very often.
The other tangible that people have to consider is that the RAAF is very overstocked with aircrew atm (nowhere to go) , hence the introduction of the "gate" for those who pass BFTS. 120 to 150 are "winged" in the ADF every year, and you are going to have to compete against them at the other end for jobs.
I think I will go read a biology book right now.
Last edited by Flyboat North; 16th Apr 2014 at 07:15.
After repeated requests for Flyboast North to give us all some idea of his/her aviation experience to give himself/herself some credibility.
Still nothing, I guess Flyboast Norths actual aviation experience is like his /her credibility, Nil.
Still nothing, I guess Flyboast Norths actual aviation experience is like his /her credibility, Nil.
My point was though that all these people didn't have cadetships when they started training. Of those who finished most got a job, as advanced cadets (or whatever each airline calls them), as instructors and even as charter pilots! My numbers contradict your numbers that a CPL holder looking for work will find it impossible.
It's by no means easy but the jobs are out there!
It's by no means easy but the jobs are out there!
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@mcgrath50 have to agree with you on that, but there is more than 1 uni cohort graduating at any one time plus other flying schools too; and there is only so many job available out there. So more often than not there would be more supply than demand.
I'm just stating some observation i noticed. Cant say much about my cohort, i (was) an intl student, with only a couple of aussie in my cohort.
14 of us started, 12 completed the course. if i'm not wrong the local guys are in the process of landing jobs or in a waiting list for 1.
I'm just stating some observation i noticed. Cant say much about my cohort, i (was) an intl student, with only a couple of aussie in my cohort.
14 of us started, 12 completed the course. if i'm not wrong the local guys are in the process of landing jobs or in a waiting list for 1.
FBN, so you don't like aviation courses at uni's, you don't like GA, but you love cadet programs. Great, thanks mate we get it.
You sound pretty bitter. Like someone who likes the idea of being a pilot, but is not willing to make any sacrifices. You are not a pilot, never will be. You do not have what it takes. You often mention how much coin certain drivers are getting or going to get. All the pilots I know have got out and worked hard and applied themselves to succeeding. We talk about money, but no one becomes a pilot to make money. Sure we want to fly a jet, but realise that there is so much more to aviation than flying big jets. Your attitude and information about GA is all wrong, and that's why you'll never be a pilot. You may fly a plane, but there's more to being a pilot than sitting in a control seat.
You have hijacked a thread for too long. Go away.
Cheers,
Greaser
You sound pretty bitter. Like someone who likes the idea of being a pilot, but is not willing to make any sacrifices. You are not a pilot, never will be. You do not have what it takes. You often mention how much coin certain drivers are getting or going to get. All the pilots I know have got out and worked hard and applied themselves to succeeding. We talk about money, but no one becomes a pilot to make money. Sure we want to fly a jet, but realise that there is so much more to aviation than flying big jets. Your attitude and information about GA is all wrong, and that's why you'll never be a pilot. You may fly a plane, but there's more to being a pilot than sitting in a control seat.
You have hijacked a thread for too long. Go away.
Cheers,
Greaser
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If the other thread is true it looks like the Junior FO at Jetstar will rise to a base of at least $80K , allow some overtime/allowances this puts you comfortably over $100K
Good news for the JStar cadets in training though - very hefty payrise there.
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I decided to start this thread back up again a while ago, and after about 1 and a half posts, income the jealous GA guys.
Everyone please note the title of the thread "Jetstar Pilot Cadet Program" not "Cadets vs GA" and stop fighting over who gets the biggest salary, or who has more experience, who has gotten there the quickest etc. GA and Airline are two different professions/lifestyles, and there is no point having a brawl over which is best.
Just post constuctive comments on the damn cadet program. If you guys have no idea what it is, and are just trying to pressure people into GA, then please, go away.
So now that's out of the way, can we start a decent discussion?
Sort of like, things that people might want to know visiting this thread? maybe?
e.g.
This probably wont work, but I tried
Everyone please note the title of the thread "Jetstar Pilot Cadet Program" not "Cadets vs GA" and stop fighting over who gets the biggest salary, or who has more experience, who has gotten there the quickest etc. GA and Airline are two different professions/lifestyles, and there is no point having a brawl over which is best.
Just post constuctive comments on the damn cadet program. If you guys have no idea what it is, and are just trying to pressure people into GA, then please, go away.
So now that's out of the way, can we start a decent discussion?
Sort of like, things that people might want to know visiting this thread? maybe?
e.g.
- How long it takes to FO
- How long you have to wait for TR training
- The costs in detail of the course
- Even how to get into CTC or OAA in the first place (this is the hard part)
This probably wont work, but I tried
Last edited by SammK; 17th Apr 2014 at 04:01.
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How long it takes to FO
How long you have to wait for TR training
The costs in detail of the course
How long you have to wait for TR training
The costs in detail of the course
It covers the training stages and costs in detail. You won't get a definite answer in regards to the time spent between completing the first phase and undertaking the type rating. It all depends on the circumstances at the time.
March 2015 will be the next course provided it's confirmed.
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and after about 1 and a half posts, income the jealous GA guys
A cadetship is a very good way to get into an airline quickly, no one is arguing that. What is being argued are the real reasons why Jetstar started the cadetship in the first place ($$$), the pitfalls of the scheme (potentially no job at the end), plus the lack of experience a JFO initially brings to the flightdeck. One must also consider the very low chance they'll have getting in - plenty of very good pilots have missed out on cadetships, but still made it to an airline eventually.
Many pilots that have 'been there, done that' also have mentioned you'll miss out on a hell of a lot of fun, experiences and friendships by not following GA. But maybe those things are less important in today's 'social media' society.
Somehow the arguments started about flying schools and universities lying to potential students. Well, guess what? That's been happening for years and is nothing new! Many other training providers for other industries do the same thing too!
Whatever path you take, if you have the right attitude, can network (i.e. make friends at the simplest level) and are serious about learning your trade, you will achieve your goal. The only things that will stop new pilots leaving their comfort zone and succeeding are laziness, nerves, money or girls.
SammK
You didn't start this thread, the one you started was merged into this one.
Yes, there is plenty of bitching about cadetships generally because of why they have been introduced and not due to any animosity to the cadets themselves, with the odd exception. You need to understand this cadetship programme was introduced for one reason and one reason only, to reduce pilots wages.
However there is some good information in this thread if you bother to look.
The questions you pose in your last post are probably best answered by the training providers. If you're not comfortable with their replies then there in lies the answers to whether or or not to do a cadetship.
Which ever way you go, self improver/GA/airline, or cadet it will be crap shoot as to which is the best way to go. Ask the recently graduated Jeststar cadets who have been told, "No job" what they think. Right now the self improver/GA/airline option is probably the best. In a few years time the cadetship might be better.
However never lose sight of the reason why Jetstar introduced this cadetship.
You didn't start this thread, the one you started was merged into this one.
Yes, there is plenty of bitching about cadetships generally because of why they have been introduced and not due to any animosity to the cadets themselves, with the odd exception. You need to understand this cadetship programme was introduced for one reason and one reason only, to reduce pilots wages.
However there is some good information in this thread if you bother to look.
The questions you pose in your last post are probably best answered by the training providers. If you're not comfortable with their replies then there in lies the answers to whether or or not to do a cadetship.
Which ever way you go, self improver/GA/airline, or cadet it will be crap shoot as to which is the best way to go. Ask the recently graduated Jeststar cadets who have been told, "No job" what they think. Right now the self improver/GA/airline option is probably the best. In a few years time the cadetship might be better.
However never lose sight of the reason why Jetstar introduced this cadetship.