Norfolk Island Ditching ATSB Report - ?
Prospector
It’s only because I now realise, having considered some of the comments about the ditching on this and other threads by people who I assume are aviation professionals, that one of the required competencies of a commercial pilot is: “ESP”.
I reflected on how often I’ve asked ATC/FS if something broadcast is really true, and they’ve responded with: “Nah – we were just kidding; it’s actually thick fog on the ground and vis below 200 metres.”
I also reflected on how often I’ve asked ATC/FS if they’re refraining from transmitting/broadcasting operationally relevant information to me, knowing I’m in their patch, and they’ve said: “As a matter of fact, lucky you asked…”
I also reflected on the fact that I don’t rely on the accuracy of the nav data base uploaded to the GPS each month, and instead verify the accuracy of each and every entry – takes weeks each time, but I don’t have ESP.
It’s only because I now realise, having considered some of the comments about the ditching on this and other threads by people who I assume are aviation professionals, that one of the required competencies of a commercial pilot is: “ESP”.
I reflected on how often I’ve asked ATC/FS if something broadcast is really true, and they’ve responded with: “Nah – we were just kidding; it’s actually thick fog on the ground and vis below 200 metres.”
I also reflected on how often I’ve asked ATC/FS if they’re refraining from transmitting/broadcasting operationally relevant information to me, knowing I’m in their patch, and they’ve said: “As a matter of fact, lucky you asked…”
I also reflected on the fact that I don’t rely on the accuracy of the nav data base uploaded to the GPS each month, and instead verify the accuracy of each and every entry – takes weeks each time, but I don’t have ESP.
When you live....
Current tender released by the ATSB
Australian Transport Safety Bureau
AUSTRALIAN TRANSPORT SAFETY BUREAU. SERVICES FOR RECOVERY OF FLIGHT RECORDERS FROM AIRCRAFT SUBMERGED NEAR NORFOLK ISLAND.
ATM ID: ATSB-AO-2014-190.
Agency: Australian Transport Safety Bureau.
Close Date & Time: 7 July 2015 at 2.00 pm (ACT Local time).
Location: ACT, Other, Overseas. ATM Type: Request for Tender.
Description: The ATSB requires a Contractor to supply commercial services in order to recover of the Flight Recorders from a submerged Westwind 1124A aircraft that ditched off the coast of Norfolk Island on 18 November 2009. A ROV survey of the wreckage was conducted over the period 27-31 March 2015, which confirmed the location and disposition of the main wreckage fragments.
The wreckage fragments lie on a sandy ocean floor approximately 4 km due west of Norfolk Island. The aircraft has remained largely intact since the initial accident with the wings/tail section separated from the passenger compartment. The Flight Recorders are located in the wings /tail fragment of the wreckage. The passenger compartment is located underneath the left wing. It is likely that both main sections are no longer physically connected by any flight control or electrical cables, although this was not confirmed for certain during the ROV survey. The dry weight of the wings / tail section was calculated to be around 5 tonnes. Sand has accumulated around a portion of the rear most section of the aircraft tail.
The ATSB anticipates that a recovery operation of this nature may involve the use of any or all of the following:
? Vessel
? Lifting Equipment
? Divers
? ROVs
While the ATSB anticipates that any or all of the above assets may form part of a proposed method for recovery, the ATSB invites Tenderers to propose methods for retrieval that are effective and efficient, representing value for money. It is not necessary that a method include a particular asset if it is not necessary to achieve the recovery objective.
Once the flight recorders are removed from the aircraft wreckage, the wreckage must be left substantially unchanged in its current location.
Timeframe for Delivery: Before the end of September 2015
Address for Lodgement: Austender at www.tenders.gov.au in accordance with instructions in Request documentation.
Contact Officer: VH-NGA Recovery Team. Email Address: [email protected]
AUSTRALIAN TRANSPORT SAFETY BUREAU. SERVICES FOR RECOVERY OF FLIGHT RECORDERS FROM AIRCRAFT SUBMERGED NEAR NORFOLK ISLAND.
ATM ID: ATSB-AO-2014-190.
Agency: Australian Transport Safety Bureau.
Close Date & Time: 7 July 2015 at 2.00 pm (ACT Local time).
Location: ACT, Other, Overseas. ATM Type: Request for Tender.
Description: The ATSB requires a Contractor to supply commercial services in order to recover of the Flight Recorders from a submerged Westwind 1124A aircraft that ditched off the coast of Norfolk Island on 18 November 2009. A ROV survey of the wreckage was conducted over the period 27-31 March 2015, which confirmed the location and disposition of the main wreckage fragments.
The wreckage fragments lie on a sandy ocean floor approximately 4 km due west of Norfolk Island. The aircraft has remained largely intact since the initial accident with the wings/tail section separated from the passenger compartment. The Flight Recorders are located in the wings /tail fragment of the wreckage. The passenger compartment is located underneath the left wing. It is likely that both main sections are no longer physically connected by any flight control or electrical cables, although this was not confirmed for certain during the ROV survey. The dry weight of the wings / tail section was calculated to be around 5 tonnes. Sand has accumulated around a portion of the rear most section of the aircraft tail.
The ATSB anticipates that a recovery operation of this nature may involve the use of any or all of the following:
? Vessel
? Lifting Equipment
? Divers
? ROVs
While the ATSB anticipates that any or all of the above assets may form part of a proposed method for recovery, the ATSB invites Tenderers to propose methods for retrieval that are effective and efficient, representing value for money. It is not necessary that a method include a particular asset if it is not necessary to achieve the recovery objective.
Once the flight recorders are removed from the aircraft wreckage, the wreckage must be left substantially unchanged in its current location.
Timeframe for Delivery: Before the end of September 2015
Address for Lodgement: Austender at www.tenders.gov.au in accordance with instructions in Request documentation.
Contact Officer: VH-NGA Recovery Team. Email Address: [email protected]
Good Q Snatch
Isnt the wherewithall of an accident investigation to learn things ??
By laying out the wreckage in a hangar and seeing where the structural failures were, where levers and knobs were positioned, etc, would seem to be of educational and investigative interest
There is a claim that the water impact knocked the gear down. Doesnt look like it in the pictures....so is the gear down and locked or what ?
The fuselage ripped open, where, why.. some life jackets didnt work, torn or ?
Or is it they just dont want to spend too many dollars (unlike MH 370) or a thorough going over of the carcass might open up a few wormy cans ?
Lets hope that the recorders have remained watertight.
By laying out the wreckage in a hangar and seeing where the structural failures were, where levers and knobs were positioned, etc, would seem to be of educational and investigative interest
There is a claim that the water impact knocked the gear down. Doesnt look like it in the pictures....so is the gear down and locked or what ?
The fuselage ripped open, where, why.. some life jackets didnt work, torn or ?
Or is it they just dont want to spend too many dollars (unlike MH 370) or a thorough going over of the carcass might open up a few wormy cans ?
Lets hope that the recorders have remained watertight.
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Aroa, agree that the UC seems down and locked
I like many here are looking forward to "hearing" what exactly went on in the cockpit, especially radio calls and weather information received.
The ultimate irony would be that ATSB original report is vindicated
I like many here are looking forward to "hearing" what exactly went on in the cockpit, especially radio calls and weather information received.
The ultimate irony would be that ATSB original report is vindicated
The whole wreck should have been lifted to begin with.
That would have made much more sense. Finally they are going to try and pull the recorders, I like many are very hopeful they work. It intrigues me that they don't want to bring the rest of the wreck up. I wonder why???
That would have made much more sense. Finally they are going to try and pull the recorders, I like many are very hopeful they work. It intrigues me that they don't want to bring the rest of the wreck up. I wonder why???
Recorders recovered
Well the recorders have been recovered this week. All done very quietly. One minute they were going to be recovered soon. Next minute they have been recovered.
ATSB now only has one set of missing black boxes lost at sea | Plane Talking
Lets hope the data can be extracted from them.
Seems strange that the report into the reopened investigation is due by Christmas, yet the recorders are only obtained mid-November.
ATSB now only has one set of missing black boxes lost at sea | Plane Talking
Lets hope the data can be extracted from them.
Seems strange that the report into the reopened investigation is due by Christmas, yet the recorders are only obtained mid-November.
It intrigues me that they don't want to bring the rest of the wreck up. I wonder why???
My guess is that the head of the ATSB is hoping a suitable time period has elapsed - to render the content of the boxes unrecoverable. So much more convenient that way.
The part numbers and serial numbers of the recorders agree with the maintenance documentation for the aircraft.
Data from both the CVR and FDR from VH-NGA has been successfully downloaded at the ATSB’s technical facilities in Canberra. The CVR data is of just over 2 hours and 4 minutes duration, covering the period up to the aircraft’s ditching into the waters off Norfolk Island. The FDR contained 116 hours of data, which included the last four flights of VH-NGA, which were undertaken in the period between fitment of the particular recorder to the aircraft on 3 November 2009 and the date of the accident (including the accident flight). The evidence obtained from the recorders will be analysed as part of the ongoing investigation and relevant information will be included in the ATSB’s final report, which is expected to be released in the first quarter of 2016.
... I'm slightly surprised that the data was fully recoverable.
Were they worried that someone may have swapped the units?
The limit for no decompression amatuer sport diving with either SSA or PADI certification is 42m. Professional divers can and do go much, much deeper using Heliox mixtures. 48m is a walk in the park for a professional in the good visibility apparent from the photos I've seen of the wreck.
To be fair Forky they have already released the report, its just that it wasn't very good and had CASA fingerprints all over it. Hopefully now they have recovered the recorders (which they should have done as a matter of course in the first place) a complete picture might emerge of the crew dynamics and the decision making process (there's that term again FTDK and this time they are instrument rated
).
As to the transcripts of the CVR, complete transcripts have never been made public in any Australian investigation. We don't want to go down the path of overseas investigations where information is leaked every day and arm chair experts in the media and on the internet can run amok with an incomplete picture of the accident. In fact that is illegal under the TSI Act.
).As to the transcripts of the CVR, complete transcripts have never been made public in any Australian investigation. We don't want to go down the path of overseas investigations where information is leaked every day and arm chair experts in the media and on the internet can run amok with an incomplete picture of the accident. In fact that is illegal under the TSI Act.
