Merged: Cessna Clips House in Melbourne
In both of the midairs that RVAC have been involved in, their PA28s had instructors on board and their flying was "training related" rather than weekend warriors out on their own.
When KKW ran out of fuel and played 9 holes it had an instructor on board.
- As a side note, might the cause of this latest accident be due to running out of fuel (again)? Maybe even caused by the same (previously mentioned in another thread) dodgy dipstick? And was there an instructor on this flight too? Ouch if it's true!
gezza182, maybe it is a fair comparison?
In the last few years RVAC have obviously/evidently had more major accidents and incidents (I'm talking about bent metal) than any other operator in the area.
Maybe it is time for the microscope to come out?
remoak, "the fact that it did is all they need", too true sadly.
prospector, no need to remove it, just file the sharp edges back and the kiddies have a new toy in the backyard.
When KKW ran out of fuel and played 9 holes it had an instructor on board.
- As a side note, might the cause of this latest accident be due to running out of fuel (again)? Maybe even caused by the same (previously mentioned in another thread) dodgy dipstick? And was there an instructor on this flight too? Ouch if it's true!
gezza182, maybe it is a fair comparison?
In the last few years RVAC have obviously/evidently had more major accidents and incidents (I'm talking about bent metal) than any other operator in the area.
Maybe it is time for the microscope to come out?
remoak, "the fact that it did is all they need", too true sadly.
prospector, no need to remove it, just file the sharp edges back and the kiddies have a new toy in the backyard.
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In both of the midairs that RVAC have been involved in, their PA28s had instructors on board and their flying was "training related" rather than weekend warriors out on their own.
When KKW ran out of fuel and played 9 holes it had an instructor on board.
All initial instructor rating flight tests are conducted by CASA testing officers. If the training was not up to par, I am sure these instructors didn't find their licence to train in Breakfast Cereal Boxes.
According to the Adelaide Sunday Mail the two on board KKW were a female pilot aged in her 20's & the passenger was a 70 year old photographer who had chartered the aircraft to take aerial shots over Garfield & Caroline Springs.
DF.
DF.
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I've got a bunch more pictures of the crash but they've all got the pilot in them....I guess its probably not the right thing to do to put them up.....
She's smiling in one of them - and I think I would be to - looking at the images I've got no idea how the hell she survived.
AB
She's smiling in one of them - and I think I would be to - looking at the images I've got no idea how the hell she survived.
AB
flyboy_nz, "in both of the midairs". "Midairs", multiple....plural.
Just to inform you if you were not aware, RVAC have had two midair collisions- that one at MB which you describe; and one at Coldstream involving one of their PA28s (UMB) Vs a PA28 based at Lilydale (BZH). Fortunately everyone lived in that one.
Did they actually fix KKWs dipstick or did it run out/low again in a similar situation to the golf course?
Just to inform you if you were not aware, RVAC have had two midair collisions- that one at MB which you describe; and one at Coldstream involving one of their PA28s (UMB) Vs a PA28 based at Lilydale (BZH). Fortunately everyone lived in that one.
Did they actually fix KKWs dipstick or did it run out/low again in a similar situation to the golf course?
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car RAMROD,
Yes, I have heard of the YCEM midair as well. But I only commented on the MB one, because I had the chance to speak to the instructor involved.
The way I see it is if the problem lies with RVAC training or operational procedures, CASA would have picked these up just after the first accident, safety audits and during the testing of initial Grade 3s.
No idea. It's easy to speculate and criticize, I would rather wait for the report to come out.
Yes, I have heard of the YCEM midair as well. But I only commented on the MB one, because I had the chance to speak to the instructor involved.
The way I see it is if the problem lies with RVAC training or operational procedures, CASA would have picked these up just after the first accident, safety audits and during the testing of initial Grade 3s.
Did they actually fix KKWs dipstick or did it run out/low again in a similar situation to the golf course?
Look at OAA most of us hate them BUT they have what 40-50 aircraft made up of c172, c182 and pa44 etc most if not all are flying all day ever day, and they haven't had the number of accidents or incidents Rvac have had over the years!
I was with an operator at Moorabbin for 10 years and we never lost one aircraft. The flying rates in the early days were double what RVAC would be doing now. We did have a few students complain about the standard we tried to achieve and they left for other schools. On a number of occasions we denied private hire to certain pilots because they failed or would not submit to a check ride, they usually walked to another school on field and hired an aircraft from there straight away.
As a result we had a high rating with CASA, very little interference from them. The then AAUP gave all our aircraft owners a percentage discount on insurance for aircraft operated through us.
It does pay to be safe.
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I notice a lot of speculation that the cause of the engine stoppage was lack of fuel, this based on comments made by a fireman. Given the weather on the day and engine type why is no one suggesting carby ice as a likely cause. This is the time of year to keep a close eye on carby heat.
PeterTG, it could have been shot down for all we really know.
A lot of the current 'speculation' here is probably because of past history- its not the first time that this particular aircraft has fallen short of MB.
A lot of people criticise speculation. Did anyone read the thread on the Air North Braz? Remember all the comments about assy training? People thought that that was speculation as to the cause, but lo and behold it was apparently just that.
Carby ice? Yes a possibility, but I'd be surprised.
As you say Peter, "keep a close eye"... If it was indeed ice, somebody presumably wasn't paying proper attention!
Nice post 43. Just goes to show that high hours doesn't necessarily mean high incidents! Sunny might not like that though.
A lot of the current 'speculation' here is probably because of past history- its not the first time that this particular aircraft has fallen short of MB.
A lot of people criticise speculation. Did anyone read the thread on the Air North Braz? Remember all the comments about assy training? People thought that that was speculation as to the cause, but lo and behold it was apparently just that.
Carby ice? Yes a possibility, but I'd be surprised.
As you say Peter, "keep a close eye"... If it was indeed ice, somebody presumably wasn't paying proper attention!
Nice post 43. Just goes to show that high hours doesn't necessarily mean high incidents! Sunny might not like that though.
Funny how there was no Fire after all that damage to the wings!! ( the right one in particular )
mmmm
mmmm
Ramrod:
Sunny doesn't mind that one at all. It's nothing to do with high hours, it's to do with statistical significance and randomness.
You might for example fly for thousands of hours with no problems, then get Four unrelated events all happening in the space of a month or Two.
The newspapers do this every time we have a Five death weekend on the roads. "Road safety is going to the dogs!" they scream, when really nothing has changed.
To put it another way, RVAC may now go for Twenty years without an incident.
....unless Sunfish keeps flying
Nice post 43. Just goes to show that high hours doesn't necessarily mean high incidents! Sunny might not like that though.
You might for example fly for thousands of hours with no problems, then get Four unrelated events all happening in the space of a month or Two.
The newspapers do this every time we have a Five death weekend on the roads. "Road safety is going to the dogs!" they scream, when really nothing has changed.
To put it another way, RVAC may now go for Twenty years without an incident.
....unless Sunfish keeps flying
I know it's serious but you've got to have a laugh sometimes. this from "Top News Singapore" which is apparently an on-line news service:
pilot and her passenger have strolled away from a frothy plane crash in a backyard.
Yesterday the single-engine and the four-seated plane abrupt the roof of one house and crashed in the yard of a bordering home only hundreds of meters from the Moorabbin Airport runway near Melbourne approx 3.30pm.
The female pilot, 28, from Hawthorn and her male passenger, 70, who were on an airborne photography assignment, were able to mount from the debris uninjured.
A police spokesman expressed there was no one in the house at the moment when the plane crashed, and the pilot and passenger did not undergo any grave injuries.
Paramedics expressed that it was astounding that they were able to move away from the crash.
The aircraft had disembarked from the Moorabbin Airport approx 2.15pm and was making a comeback in to land when its engine botched.
The police spokesman explained that the plane as a write-off. It's poorly dented, yet the house has only lost a few tiles from the top of the roof
Yesterday the single-engine and the four-seated plane abrupt the roof of one house and crashed in the yard of a bordering home only hundreds of meters from the Moorabbin Airport runway near Melbourne approx 3.30pm.
The female pilot, 28, from Hawthorn and her male passenger, 70, who were on an airborne photography assignment, were able to mount from the debris uninjured.
A police spokesman expressed there was no one in the house at the moment when the plane crashed, and the pilot and passenger did not undergo any grave injuries.
Paramedics expressed that it was astounding that they were able to move away from the crash.
The aircraft had disembarked from the Moorabbin Airport approx 2.15pm and was making a comeback in to land when its engine botched.
The police spokesman explained that the plane as a write-off. It's poorly dented, yet the house has only lost a few tiles from the top of the roof
A CAR has smashed through the front of a Japanese restaurant in the Perth CBD, injuring five diners, including a child.
Read more: Five diners hurt as car hits Matsuri Japanese restaurant in Perth | News.com.au
We should ban them car's. They might hit a house...
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Read more: Five diners hurt as car hits Matsuri Japanese restaurant in Perth | News.com.au
We should ban them car's. They might hit a house...
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A MAN has sustained serious head injuries after his vehicle ploughed through a roundabout and crashed into a house in Bassendean early today.
Driver hurt as car smashes into house early today | Perth Now
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A MAN has sustained serious head injuries after his vehicle ploughed through a roundabout and crashed into a house in Bassendean early today.
Driver hurt as car smashes into house early today | Perth Now
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Airborne car hits two houses....
" Police in Connecticut say a Darien resident was killed when the person's car went airborne, crashed through a house, hit a tree and then ran into a second house.
Police say the car was clearly exceeding the 25 mph speed limit..."
The Associated Press: Conn. driver killed as car hits 2 houses, tree
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" Police in Connecticut say a Darien resident was killed when the person's car went airborne, crashed through a house, hit a tree and then ran into a second house.
Police say the car was clearly exceeding the 25 mph speed limit..."
The Associated Press: Conn. driver killed as car hits 2 houses, tree
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Wow, my google skills are astounding ...up to three now.
Vehicle hits three houses...
"Parts of a Montbello neighborhood are in shambles after a pick-up truck took out a light pole and tore up yards and homes.
At least three homes and several vehicles were damaged... "
Truck Hits Three Houses In Montbello - Denver News Story - KMGH Denver
Seems them cars are far more dangerous than light aircraft ...
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Vehicle hits three houses...
"Parts of a Montbello neighborhood are in shambles after a pick-up truck took out a light pole and tore up yards and homes.
At least three homes and several vehicles were damaged... "
Truck Hits Three Houses In Montbello - Denver News Story - KMGH Denver
Seems them cars are far more dangerous than light aircraft ...
.
