Is RACWA on finals? YOU WERE WARNED!!
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Why are you so concerned about WAAC? Are you a student there? Do you work there?.... I didn't think so. If you were a student there you would see that there has been no change at all. You obviously have no loyalty to WAAC or RACWA. Stop trying to inflame the situation by asking stupid questions and trying to drag ridiculous points into light.
From time to time when **** hits the fan it divides everyone into two camps, those who run and those who stay and face the fire. Here you are all running, as fast as you can. What is even worse, you have the audacity to chastise those who have decided to have the fire and attempt to fix it and keep it alive so people like us have a place to fly from. These people have stepped up to the plate to have a swing. They are the type of people that the club should be made of. Not a pack of snitches than hurl a tirade of abuse as they run for the hills.
From time to time when **** hits the fan it divides everyone into two camps, those who run and those who stay and face the fire. Here you are all running, as fast as you can. What is even worse, you have the audacity to chastise those who have decided to have the fire and attempt to fix it and keep it alive so people like us have a place to fly from. These people have stepped up to the plate to have a swing. They are the type of people that the club should be made of. Not a pack of snitches than hurl a tirade of abuse as they run for the hills.
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Nirak
Not tense mate, just had a gut full of people having a go at RACWA etc from a distance, not knowing the full story. I don't claim to know the full story but I know enough to see there are some really decent people at that club trying to to do right thing. Let them get on with it. Lets see what they can do. I think in the end you will all be surprised and we will all be better for it.
Not tense mate, just had a gut full of people having a go at RACWA etc from a distance, not knowing the full story. I don't claim to know the full story but I know enough to see there are some really decent people at that club trying to to do right thing. Let them get on with it. Lets see what they can do. I think in the end you will all be surprised and we will all be better for it.
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Clyester ... spot on!!
OK I've only been at the club a few months so yes I might be a little bit naive but to be called an idiot by WC for taking the stance of wanting to sort things out as opposed to moaning about stuff and doing nothing is hilarious- WC, you have the manners and brain of a 6 year old!
I flew at the club today and had a good chat and a laugh with all the staff. Not one of them is moaning wondering if they have a job in 6 months, they're all giving 100%!
OK I've only been at the club a few months so yes I might be a little bit naive but to be called an idiot by WC for taking the stance of wanting to sort things out as opposed to moaning about stuff and doing nothing is hilarious- WC, you have the manners and brain of a 6 year old!
I flew at the club today and had a good chat and a laugh with all the staff. Not one of them is moaning wondering if they have a job in 6 months, they're all giving 100%!
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Clyester, well said. I have followed this thread for awhile and exercised great restraint while letting people express their opinions. But I must draw the line at personal attacks on people like TR.
I spent 4 years instructing there and for the most part had a great time and learnt alot from people like TR. The CFI role has always been challenging but TR seems to be doing well at it from my observations. And yes, WC, he does still fly, I have recently done some training with him and have no complaints with the end result as I passed the flight test with an independant ATO.
WC if you have such a problem with CFI then why dont you go and tell him face to face rather than hiding on PPRUNE acting like a spoilt child. I would like to see how it turns out for you.
Ladies and Gentlemen give the current staff a chance to help the members and themselves have a future at the club. I'm sure they are doing there best to keep it going.
I spent 4 years instructing there and for the most part had a great time and learnt alot from people like TR. The CFI role has always been challenging but TR seems to be doing well at it from my observations. And yes, WC, he does still fly, I have recently done some training with him and have no complaints with the end result as I passed the flight test with an independant ATO.
WC if you have such a problem with CFI then why dont you go and tell him face to face rather than hiding on PPRUNE acting like a spoilt child. I would like to see how it turns out for you.
Ladies and Gentlemen give the current staff a chance to help the members and themselves have a future at the club. I'm sure they are doing there best to keep it going.
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So you dont't think the current staff (and I'm not talking the new committee and GM) have been given a fair chance. The CFI and many instructors (and again, not all instructors) remain on autopilot, in the cruise for their weekly/fortnighlty pay cheque.
There is clearly no increase of pace, concern or even care of its present student base by this lot, and so no, why should i give them a fair go. They are part of the problem.
clyester, aeromuz, and S&L - I have taken my concerns to the top. Been shouted down at meetings, written in and visited the ex-CEO to no avail. The problem is systemic and only a complete overhaul will work in the current time frame.
So now rather than be part of the solution, where clearly no one wants to listen, i have as previously mentioned, taken my hard earned after-tax $$ elsewhere.
Nirak - I guess you are worried bout your pre-paid tuition fees ??? Sory to hear mate, hope all goes well for you.
There is clearly no increase of pace, concern or even care of its present student base by this lot, and so no, why should i give them a fair go. They are part of the problem.
clyester, aeromuz, and S&L - I have taken my concerns to the top. Been shouted down at meetings, written in and visited the ex-CEO to no avail. The problem is systemic and only a complete overhaul will work in the current time frame.
So now rather than be part of the solution, where clearly no one wants to listen, i have as previously mentioned, taken my hard earned after-tax $$ elsewhere.
Nirak - I guess you are worried bout your pre-paid tuition fees ??? Sory to hear mate, hope all goes well for you.
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Siseman
Yes you are operating under RACWA's AOC and after pleading from your president at a token cost. Why on earth would you bite the hand that feeds you. The solution for you is to get you own AOC and then you can do what you like.
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Let's Try and Save It
I've been a member for around 30 years. For the past 5 or so, I have watched in dismay as the Club lurched from one disaster to another. Most of the old Committee were a bunch of egomaniacs hell bent on making a name for themselves. Well they certainly succeeded but not in the way they would have liked. I for one would like to see the Club survive and from what I see of the new Committee, they are a collection of people with the will and the skill to do it. They need to downsize the staff and get rid of around half of the aircraft. That'd be a start. Selling MURRAYFIELD would also help and with a lot of hard work and strong cost control, I'm sure it could be saved. I really hope so. The big problem facing any Club, is that even if the current management can extricate it from the mire, a new management team could come in after the next AGM and screw it all up again. Problem is, next time MURRAYFIELD may not be there to save their bacon. I kinda feel sorry for the committee and CEO having to clean up after the incompetence of the previous lot.
Last edited by MooneyManiac; 23rd Jan 2011 at 09:57. Reason: Typo
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Wiley
Do you think training people how to fly is easy work??? I can assure you every student is unique and apart from the odd 2 or 3 (out of the hundreds I have trained) who pick it up pretty much straight away its no picnic. Every student has different learning rates and it sometimes takes a great deal of time, effort and creativity to find a way to help them to get the penny to drop.
On top of that I cant even cout how many nights I have stayed back to complete student flight records or prepare paperwork for a flight test (there is alot of it) as I have spent all of the standard 6 periods flying or briefing. One of the main attractions of my currrent job is that 90% of the paperwork is done before I shut the engines down!!
Instructing is no walk in the park, I found it highly rewarding though and really enjoyed seeing the look of joy on a student who I got to go first solo or achieve their licence, whether it be PPL or CPL. I think most instructors at RACWA whould have had pretty similar experiences to me and feel the same way.
As for what the staff do on a daily basis, well they do their jobs, what else did you want them to do?? Juggle or card tricks?
I can see your passionate about your views and I respect that, but I cant see how pointing a judgemental finger and making snide remarks about staff will achieve anything positive.
Do you think training people how to fly is easy work??? I can assure you every student is unique and apart from the odd 2 or 3 (out of the hundreds I have trained) who pick it up pretty much straight away its no picnic. Every student has different learning rates and it sometimes takes a great deal of time, effort and creativity to find a way to help them to get the penny to drop.
On top of that I cant even cout how many nights I have stayed back to complete student flight records or prepare paperwork for a flight test (there is alot of it) as I have spent all of the standard 6 periods flying or briefing. One of the main attractions of my currrent job is that 90% of the paperwork is done before I shut the engines down!!
Instructing is no walk in the park, I found it highly rewarding though and really enjoyed seeing the look of joy on a student who I got to go first solo or achieve their licence, whether it be PPL or CPL. I think most instructors at RACWA whould have had pretty similar experiences to me and feel the same way.
As for what the staff do on a daily basis, well they do their jobs, what else did you want them to do?? Juggle or card tricks?
I can see your passionate about your views and I respect that, but I cant see how pointing a judgemental finger and making snide remarks about staff will achieve anything positive.
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Sure aeromuz you sound like a proffessional and possible career instructor. You are indeed a rare individual from my observations.
During my trianing I had at least 4-5 different instructors. Each was no better than the other. No slight against them, they were young, immature and most importantly weren't being mentored. Its not the instructors that let themselves down, it was the RACA system. As the instructors develop, Gr 3 -2-1 I wonder how much of those develop as service providers, or ow many continue down the path of oblivion beleiving their own press.
My instructors didn't understand some basic principles of customer service, which they indeed were there to provide. Again, i wonder how much time is given to the instructors, instructing them on etiquette, tardiness, respect and some good old fashioned values. Life skills doesn't come easy to some, but shouldn't RACWA be training proffessionals "people", not just proffessional instructors.
As for todays instructors. I ask you all how many of you:
Are left waiting for your instructors on a regular basis even though they are in the building ?
Stand around waiting for your instructor after you pre-flight the aircraft,
Are left waiting for your instructor to arrive on time ??
During my trianing I had at least 4-5 different instructors. Each was no better than the other. No slight against them, they were young, immature and most importantly weren't being mentored. Its not the instructors that let themselves down, it was the RACA system. As the instructors develop, Gr 3 -2-1 I wonder how much of those develop as service providers, or ow many continue down the path of oblivion beleiving their own press.
My instructors didn't understand some basic principles of customer service, which they indeed were there to provide. Again, i wonder how much time is given to the instructors, instructing them on etiquette, tardiness, respect and some good old fashioned values. Life skills doesn't come easy to some, but shouldn't RACWA be training proffessionals "people", not just proffessional instructors.
As for todays instructors. I ask you all how many of you:
Are left waiting for your instructors on a regular basis even though they are in the building ?
Stand around waiting for your instructor after you pre-flight the aircraft,
Are left waiting for your instructor to arrive on time ??
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Wiley I can't help thinking that you just seemed to have had a bad experience for whatever reason. My instructor/s is never late (unless held up unavoidedly in a previous lesson), is always encouraging (in fact, mentors me regardless of where my final goals in aviation lie), is approachable, knowledgeable and when on leave, introduces me to who will be looking after me in the meantime. I've flown with 4 different instructors and have not encountered the issues you raise.
Its like going to a restaurant that everyone raves about - they all love it, and the one night that you go, you get the cranky waitress and the cold meal...doesn't mean the whole restaurant should be burnt
Its like going to a restaurant that everyone raves about - they all love it, and the one night that you go, you get the cranky waitress and the cold meal...doesn't mean the whole restaurant should be burnt
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Sweet - you're right. An average experience that went from bad to worse, for me at least.
But how many other people have expressed the same. How many other people are no longer members. How many other poeple, life long members, stalwarts of the club have decided not to renew their membership ?
How many senior staff, committe membrers and CEO's have jumped ship ?
But on a happy note, sounds like your training is going well. BTW are you going to go for one of those $2500 debentures that has been proposed, bring family and friends to the bar, fly more on the weekends, and particiapte in monthly comps ????
But how many other people have expressed the same. How many other people are no longer members. How many other poeple, life long members, stalwarts of the club have decided not to renew their membership ?
How many senior staff, committe membrers and CEO's have jumped ship ?
But on a happy note, sounds like your training is going well. BTW are you going to go for one of those $2500 debentures that has been proposed, bring family and friends to the bar, fly more on the weekends, and particiapte in monthly comps ????
Interesting restaurant analogy. Surely the key to any professional organisation or service provider is consistancy of supply. That is what the ISO quality system is based on after all.
And the Day VFR syllabus.
There is however plenty of consistancy in the tales we hear from former RACWA students and with what WC is saying. Things so entrenched, out of date (lack of adapatation as the industry develops) and considered perfectly normal by the RACWA establishment that the committee have a hell of a task to turn around generations of attitudes of people who have not been encouraged to think and research but just to blindly accept whatever they are told. Bring on a religion analogy...!
And the Day VFR syllabus.
There is however plenty of consistancy in the tales we hear from former RACWA students and with what WC is saying. Things so entrenched, out of date (lack of adapatation as the industry develops) and considered perfectly normal by the RACWA establishment that the committee have a hell of a task to turn around generations of attitudes of people who have not been encouraged to think and research but just to blindly accept whatever they are told. Bring on a religion analogy...!
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Wiley - no debentures for me, advice from the risk management accountant says 'wait and watch', that shares in Kamikaze bank could take a nose dive! However i do regularly meet friends for a coffee in the bar and fly on weekends 
Clare prop - love the play on your name! no religious analogy to offer i'm afraid, and yes, consistency is the key - but i've heard as many good stories as I've read bad, perhaps it's just human nature to voice the negative more often than the positive?
Clare prop - love the play on your name! no religious analogy to offer i'm afraid, and yes, consistency is the key - but i've heard as many good stories as I've read bad, perhaps it's just human nature to voice the negative more often than the positive?
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A few answers please President Andy of RACWA
So much for openness and transparency President Andy. Promises promises.
Is it true that RACWA is losing $70,000 a week just by flying? When will the members be told?
Is it true that the new Treasurer has already resigned? When will the members be told?
Is it true that another Committee member has resigned? When will the members be told?
Is it true that negotiations for the sale of a large part of Murrayfield are well advanced, with very expensive consultants have been engaged by the Committee to manage it? When will the members be consulted?
A few answers are required, President Transparency.
Is it true that RACWA is losing $70,000 a week just by flying? When will the members be told?
Is it true that the new Treasurer has already resigned? When will the members be told?
Is it true that another Committee member has resigned? When will the members be told?
Is it true that negotiations for the sale of a large part of Murrayfield are well advanced, with very expensive consultants have been engaged by the Committee to manage it? When will the members be consulted?
A few answers are required, President Transparency.
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Wolly, you sound like the Committee owes some explanation and that as a member (??) you are entitled to know of such dealings..
In my view you are ! In most organisations you would. But......at Racwa it's quite different.
Regularly they argue that these dealings are commercially sensitive, and so in the best interests of the membership, they are basically doing these deals behind the members back. Shame on you committee members...SHAME !
So any thoughts why the Treasurer resigned ???
$70k heh, thats a lot of spondoolies !
In the committees view you aren't. The comittee has always been so arrogant as to You sound like you expect That they owe you
In my view you are ! In most organisations you would. But......at Racwa it's quite different.
Regularly they argue that these dealings are commercially sensitive, and so in the best interests of the membership, they are basically doing these deals behind the members back. Shame on you committee members...SHAME !
So any thoughts why the Treasurer resigned ???
$70k heh, thats a lot of spondoolies !
In the committees view you aren't. The comittee has always been so arrogant as to You sound like you expect That they owe you