Virgin Blue hiring
Not sure the F50s at Skywest will be sticking round much longer after April when virgin takes control. I also think recruitment are taking a wait and see approach to the tiger deal (can't remember when this is going to be revealed by ACCC now) to see if it gets up or not.
Wrongwayround: here's another one for you. Hired by Virgin, ending up as Tiger A320 F.O.
Wrongwayround: here's another one for you. Hired by Virgin, ending up as Tiger A320 F.O.
They are planning 5 E-Jet courses in 2013.The first course which includes VAI Crz f/o's is already underway.Who will make up the other courses is anybody's guess but one would think it will have to include outside recruitment.
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600 posts!!! I guess it means there has been a slow down in recruitment, lots of angst and anxious folk out there. Gen Y and a few Gen X 'ers learning the meaning of being patient I suppose. I Can't really blame them hold files suck-putting your career/life on hold etc. But VA would be a terrific mob to work for and worth the wait. Next I imagine a big forum on time to command etc within the group.
Best of luck.
Best of luck.
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[quote][/
If you plan on 10-12 years from intake to command that would be about right. The era of 2 years to command is over.
QUOTE]Next I imagine a big forum on time to command etc within the group.
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I think its important to point out to the wannabies a few facts in the case they haven't read the new EBA. Anthill, feel free to correct me if I get this wrong.
Prior to the yes vote, new hires into Virgin Domestic (190/737/330 Australian based) joined the Domestic Seniority list. The same logic followed for Pacific Blue and the V Australia guys. As in each new hire joined their respective list.
Now the situation has changed. Virgin pilots are ordered by a group date of joining list. To keep it really simple for the new hires, when you are hired you go to the bottom of the list of ALL Virgin Group pilots.
What does this mean for you? It means that if you are joining Virgin for quick progression you are joining the wrong company. The best way to imagine a career in seniority terms at Virgin now is to imagine joining QF as an SO minus some obvious differences.
Many still believe the boom will return quoting with glassy eyes various stories from the pre GFC era. The boom was an artificial unsustainable period of growth when Ansett happened to collapse and Virgin happened to start. In progression terms this is basically as good a scenario as you could possibly dream up.
What it all means is that if you are in your mid 30s and joining now its my opinion that you may possibly not see a left seat in your career or will be possibly in your 50s before this takes place.
I personally think there is nothing worse than people in the company telling stories based on ancient history and raising junior pilots hopes unnecessarily. I think Anthills post is optimistic but in the ball park. 1500 pilots total and to get a command you need the company to have roughly 3000. Its a great job nonetheless but please do the maths to avoid stomping your feet over the next 15 years! All the best.
Prior to the yes vote, new hires into Virgin Domestic (190/737/330 Australian based) joined the Domestic Seniority list. The same logic followed for Pacific Blue and the V Australia guys. As in each new hire joined their respective list.
Now the situation has changed. Virgin pilots are ordered by a group date of joining list. To keep it really simple for the new hires, when you are hired you go to the bottom of the list of ALL Virgin Group pilots.
What does this mean for you? It means that if you are joining Virgin for quick progression you are joining the wrong company. The best way to imagine a career in seniority terms at Virgin now is to imagine joining QF as an SO minus some obvious differences.
Many still believe the boom will return quoting with glassy eyes various stories from the pre GFC era. The boom was an artificial unsustainable period of growth when Ansett happened to collapse and Virgin happened to start. In progression terms this is basically as good a scenario as you could possibly dream up.
What it all means is that if you are in your mid 30s and joining now its my opinion that you may possibly not see a left seat in your career or will be possibly in your 50s before this takes place.
I personally think there is nothing worse than people in the company telling stories based on ancient history and raising junior pilots hopes unnecessarily. I think Anthills post is optimistic but in the ball park. 1500 pilots total and to get a command you need the company to have roughly 3000. Its a great job nonetheless but please do the maths to avoid stomping your feet over the next 15 years! All the best.
I agree with the above but a couple of caveats.
The pilot group does not need to double as retirements will have a significant influence on promotions.
(Julia's reign of terror on Super may have affected some retirement plans)
Those willing to transfer to bases other than Brisbane and types other than B737 will find a Command closer still.
There are a significant number of First Officers who will stay in a Brisbane B737 right seat to retirement.
Likewise there are B737/E190 Captains forgoing Commands on the wide bodies to stay in Brisbane...I'm one!
The A330 or its replacement will be the big expansion area over the next few years.
For some the LHS is not the priority and sitting in the RHS of a widebody is not a bad second prize.
The dust has not settled on the new EBA in particular how the Pacific Blue issue will evolve.
Current PB pilots have Command protection on their own equipment but not new hires to PB.
New hires to the Virgin Group who accept a PB position may then find themselves in a shorter queue due to its NZ basing and conditions.
Some perspective -
1010 pilots on current VAA list. 1300 on the Group list
A330 FO down to about 800 (Salary 127K-150K)
E190 CP down to about 770 (Salary 174K)
B737 CP down to about 640 (Salary 206K)
Great Company, Great crews and it has a big future just go in with your eyes wide open.
The pilot group does not need to double as retirements will have a significant influence on promotions.
(Julia's reign of terror on Super may have affected some retirement plans)
Those willing to transfer to bases other than Brisbane and types other than B737 will find a Command closer still.
There are a significant number of First Officers who will stay in a Brisbane B737 right seat to retirement.
Likewise there are B737/E190 Captains forgoing Commands on the wide bodies to stay in Brisbane...I'm one!
The A330 or its replacement will be the big expansion area over the next few years.
For some the LHS is not the priority and sitting in the RHS of a widebody is not a bad second prize.
The dust has not settled on the new EBA in particular how the Pacific Blue issue will evolve.
Current PB pilots have Command protection on their own equipment but not new hires to PB.
New hires to the Virgin Group who accept a PB position may then find themselves in a shorter queue due to its NZ basing and conditions.
Some perspective -
1010 pilots on current VAA list. 1300 on the Group list
A330 FO down to about 800 (Salary 127K-150K)
E190 CP down to about 770 (Salary 174K)
B737 CP down to about 640 (Salary 206K)
Great Company, Great crews and it has a big future just go in with your eyes wide open.
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Many still believe the boom will return quoting with glassy eyes various stories from the pre GFC era. The boom was an artificial unsustainable period of growth when Ansett happened to collapse and Virgin happened to start. In progression terms this is basically as good a scenario as you could possibly dream up.
Have patience, why is everybody in such a hurry anyway?
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I think HHughes is right. Once the big players start recruiting O/S you will see a migration of pilots to greener patures-perceived or not. VA may becomes less attractive money wise especially as the Aussie dollar drops- whenever that happens.
People always want change, not everyone wants to live in Brisbane -why I can't imagine; but for some travel, adventure and the lure of excitment etc will be to much.They will leave even a great company such as VA.
Generally it is very fluid, nothing is certain and well you gotta be happy with where you are and what you want out of the big game of life, and roll with the aviation punches.
People always want change, not everyone wants to live in Brisbane -why I can't imagine; but for some travel, adventure and the lure of excitment etc will be to much.They will leave even a great company such as VA.
Generally it is very fluid, nothing is certain and well you gotta be happy with where you are and what you want out of the big game of life, and roll with the aviation punches.
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Sounds about right but a few other points to consider are:
Retirements and resignations at Virgin are at a trickle. Virgin has some of the youngest Jet Captains I've ever seen. Not uncommon for the Captain to be younger than the FO. The destruction of super and retirement savings will get worse as governments seek to continue funding voters in order to be reelected. Just have a look at the trend for super contributions. Unlimited, 100k, 50k, 25k, next 25k with 12% employer (read: you can't avoid tax via salary sacrifice at all). Stay tuned 30-50 year olds: you'll be working til you're 70 as a minimum. (If the share market goes anywhere near 7000 cash out!). The government want you to fund your own retirement but don't want you having too much of a good time in the process. They also don't want you retiring too young as you bring in good tax payer dollars. Worth a thread on its own!
Widebody FO slots are nearly as senior as Ejet commands if not more senior on the big bang 777. Rarely do 777 slots come up so the majority of widebody FO slots for now are big bus 330.
A portion of the flying may be reallocated to best fit companies that are not part of the seniority list. Virgin is reportedly chasing the high yield market competing directly with Qantas. (Hint: how many aircraft do Jetstar have in the low cost segment?).
As I understand it the most junior Pacific Blue pilot will have seniority over any new hire in all regards. For a Pacific Blue command, a new hire must get in line behind ALL Pacific Blue pilots first then another 1000 Australian Domestic pilots. I could be wrong though, thats my interpretation!
Ad-astra is right the workforce doesn't need to double for you to get a left seat, however the mainstream commands on the current list happen to finish right in the middle. Equal number of FOs to Captains.
I should make one big positive point as I might be coming across as a bit negative. Being a First Officer at Virgin is a fantastic job and more often than not has better conditions (all things considered) than most other non airline commands Australia wide. If you think you'll have a better lifestyle and conditions in a regional you are living in a pipe dream. (Some people in these outfits point (in a perverse advisory yet sour grapes bull**** storytelling tone) to mystical horror Virgin stories to ward you off applying.
My only motivation for posting here is to enlighten those that are still listening pre GFC tunes or live thinking it will return and all fiscal sins will be forgiven. The days of record aircraft orders are over.
Retirements and resignations at Virgin are at a trickle. Virgin has some of the youngest Jet Captains I've ever seen. Not uncommon for the Captain to be younger than the FO. The destruction of super and retirement savings will get worse as governments seek to continue funding voters in order to be reelected. Just have a look at the trend for super contributions. Unlimited, 100k, 50k, 25k, next 25k with 12% employer (read: you can't avoid tax via salary sacrifice at all). Stay tuned 30-50 year olds: you'll be working til you're 70 as a minimum. (If the share market goes anywhere near 7000 cash out!). The government want you to fund your own retirement but don't want you having too much of a good time in the process. They also don't want you retiring too young as you bring in good tax payer dollars. Worth a thread on its own!
Widebody FO slots are nearly as senior as Ejet commands if not more senior on the big bang 777. Rarely do 777 slots come up so the majority of widebody FO slots for now are big bus 330.
A portion of the flying may be reallocated to best fit companies that are not part of the seniority list. Virgin is reportedly chasing the high yield market competing directly with Qantas. (Hint: how many aircraft do Jetstar have in the low cost segment?).
As I understand it the most junior Pacific Blue pilot will have seniority over any new hire in all regards. For a Pacific Blue command, a new hire must get in line behind ALL Pacific Blue pilots first then another 1000 Australian Domestic pilots. I could be wrong though, thats my interpretation!
Ad-astra is right the workforce doesn't need to double for you to get a left seat, however the mainstream commands on the current list happen to finish right in the middle. Equal number of FOs to Captains.
I should make one big positive point as I might be coming across as a bit negative. Being a First Officer at Virgin is a fantastic job and more often than not has better conditions (all things considered) than most other non airline commands Australia wide. If you think you'll have a better lifestyle and conditions in a regional you are living in a pipe dream. (Some people in these outfits point (in a perverse advisory yet sour grapes bull**** storytelling tone) to mystical horror Virgin stories to ward you off applying.
My only motivation for posting here is to enlighten those that are still listening pre GFC tunes or live thinking it will return and all fiscal sins will be forgiven. The days of record aircraft orders are over.
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Worth noting too that the age demographic is decidedly younger than at other airlines. I would guess that the majority of captains are in their early to mid 40's. That means that there will not be mass retirements anytime soon. Add to that changes in Super Laws and a heap of older guys who need to keep working due various reasons means there will be no flow through the ranks.
Unfortunately I think it may be heading back to the days where you have to get into an airline before you are 35.
Unfortunately I think it may be heading back to the days where you have to get into an airline before you are 35.
when the next boom arrives and Senior Captains leave for the big bucks
overseas,
overseas,
The era of rapid jet commands in Oz in a large airline, IMHO are over.