Virgin Blue hiring
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I think that's nicely stated AH.
Personally I'm looking forward to having my time as an FO. Enjoying it as a part of the longer term career, not a race to the top. Having enough sim/renewals under the belt to give you your best chance at actually passing the upgrade later down the track.
I reckon everyone should take what AH has written as good advice, and sit back and enjoy the journey!
Personally I'm looking forward to having my time as an FO. Enjoying it as a part of the longer term career, not a race to the top. Having enough sim/renewals under the belt to give you your best chance at actually passing the upgrade later down the track.
I reckon everyone should take what AH has written as good advice, and sit back and enjoy the journey!
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Personally I'm looking forward to having my time as an FO. Enjoying it as a
part of the longer term career, not a race to the top. Having enough
sim/renewals under the belt to give you your best chance at actually passing the
upgrade later down the track.
That, Ladies, Gentlemen and Thrillseekers is a professional attitude
For all of you being Philosophical about 15+ years to a command you need to start thinking about in terms of age. If you're under 30, 15 years to a command is fine.
The problem with long times to command is that it creates a system where you have to get in young otherwise you will never get a command. If you join an airline at around 35 and have 15 years to command that means you are 50 when doing your first command. Not an ideal situation given all your grey matter is vanishing. Eventually it will go back to the situation in the 70-80's where if you were in GA in your 30's you might as well quit as you were going nowhere due to age.
So whilst probably good for safety long time to command is not necessarily good for the industry or pilot careers.
The problem with long times to command is that it creates a system where you have to get in young otherwise you will never get a command. If you join an airline at around 35 and have 15 years to command that means you are 50 when doing your first command. Not an ideal situation given all your grey matter is vanishing. Eventually it will go back to the situation in the 70-80's where if you were in GA in your 30's you might as well quit as you were going nowhere due to age.
So whilst probably good for safety long time to command is not necessarily good for the industry or pilot careers.
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Neville_nobody,
don't worry. Give it 4-5 years and this idea of "enjoying the journey'' will be over and JetX and the rest will be on here bitching.
Aviation is a joke of a career, whereby seniority protects the weak! I have seen many great aviators in this industry join Virgin, only to quit within a year or two when they can see the growth period of this company been spent!
Virgin has a great marketing team and has done a brilliant job over the past few years. For those joining today in your late 20's and early to mid 30's, it will be a long wait to command! Unfortunately, those in their early 30's most likely are the ones with the most flying hours, life skills, maturity and I would dare say command skills. This won't mean didly squat though because a bloke who has ''enjoyed the journey'' with a poor attitude, but higher on that God Forsaken seniority list will be up for a command before you....being paid more for their "skills"
What a rediculous career! Time to go fishing!
don't worry. Give it 4-5 years and this idea of "enjoying the journey'' will be over and JetX and the rest will be on here bitching.
Aviation is a joke of a career, whereby seniority protects the weak! I have seen many great aviators in this industry join Virgin, only to quit within a year or two when they can see the growth period of this company been spent!
Virgin has a great marketing team and has done a brilliant job over the past few years. For those joining today in your late 20's and early to mid 30's, it will be a long wait to command! Unfortunately, those in their early 30's most likely are the ones with the most flying hours, life skills, maturity and I would dare say command skills. This won't mean didly squat though because a bloke who has ''enjoyed the journey'' with a poor attitude, but higher on that God Forsaken seniority list will be up for a command before you....being paid more for their "skills"
What a rediculous career! Time to go fishing!
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The problem with long times to command is that it creates a system where you have to get in young otherwise you will never get a command. If you join an airline at around 35 and have 15 years to command that means you are 50 when doing your first command.
I'm in my early 40's, sitting on the hold file, and I know I won't be earning the coin I'm on now until I'm in the LHS of at least a 737. Even if I went onto the 737, I won't 'break even' until 2021... and it's 2023 if I start on the E-Jet.
I know it's not all about the money, but you've got to really want to be A Virgin pilot to hop on that train... no reflection on the job, just my personal circumstances...
That good old chestnut-seniority. If you haven't got it you hate it-if you have it's not a problem. This industry/career has always been about timing, from 1st job to last-unless you are lucky enough to be connected. As an experienced wide body Captain/Instructor would it be sensible for a company to put me in the RHS as an E-Jet/73 FO-or would it be a gross misuse of resources when I have more jet time than a lot of the current Captains have total (and I didn't start flying jets until I had 6k+ hrs). However-if I were to apply and accept such an offer-then that is my personal choice in a seniority based system, being cogniscent of all the implications eg RHS to 'relatively' inexperienced Captains for maybe the rest of my career. Flipside is that FO's at the company have provided loyal service and deserve a chance at progression if capable. As an outsider I would have provided the company nothing until employment date-so why should I 'jump the queue?' Which outcome is right? Commercially putting me in the LHS, ethically/morally I would go in the RHS. Ultimately it is company policy coupled with individual agreement that determines outcomes, as it always is in any aviation career. Chicken or egg anyone 
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I don't see what the big deal is, there are heaps of perks to being an FO. Remember that as a 737 FO you are making somewhere in the vicinity of 120-130k... most turboprop captains don't even make that. What would you rather be?
Just sit back and enjoy... as long as you aren't being bypassed, just wait your turn
Just sit back and enjoy... as long as you aren't being bypassed, just wait your turn
Last edited by atlas12; 19th Oct 2012 at 05:24.
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Somehow 10-15 years in the RHS looks a whole lot more attractive than 15 more years in GA/turboprops. Can anyone throw out a realistic ball park figure for 777 CFO after allowances etc?
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CFO start salary is for 1st year $74K. Expect about $15k in allowances plus 9% Superannuation on to of that. B777 rating is provided and you are paid from the first day of induction.
SFOs are making around $150-170K, depending on the breaks. 9% Super on top of this. I understand that this is more than Ejet captains. Training FOs make 10% extra.
There is a big difference in responsibilities between a domestic FO and a SFO on the 777. A SFO is essentially a cruise captain and makes autonomous operational decisions whilst the captain is in crew rest. A domestic FO has a Captain sitting next to them to make decisions regarding pax control, on board discipline, level selection, wx deviations, the execution of most non-normal checklists, etc etc. The only times when a SFO would need to consult the resting Captain is when there is an issue with EDTO, alternate selection fuel issues, events requiring a PAN or Mayday or a diversion is required.
SFOs are making around $150-170K, depending on the breaks. 9% Super on top of this. I understand that this is more than Ejet captains. Training FOs make 10% extra.
There is a big difference in responsibilities between a domestic FO and a SFO on the 777. A SFO is essentially a cruise captain and makes autonomous operational decisions whilst the captain is in crew rest. A domestic FO has a Captain sitting next to them to make decisions regarding pax control, on board discipline, level selection, wx deviations, the execution of most non-normal checklists, etc etc. The only times when a SFO would need to consult the resting Captain is when there is an issue with EDTO, alternate selection fuel issues, events requiring a PAN or Mayday or a diversion is required.
Last edited by Anthill; 20th Oct 2012 at 02:58.
A new CFO off the street starting before 1st July 2013 would be on a base of $76k INC super (so $69k plus). I have no idea of allowances, but if 15 is correct then mid 80s would be about it.
An existing FO would currently be on Lvl 5 pay I believe, making their base about 149k plus super. An ejet captain is currently on about 165k. With allowances an ejet captain would be on more.
As for responsibilities, they sound about the same - normal operational decisions are left to the pilot flying (as long as they make sense), non normal checklists are initiated by the pilot flying, and more serious decisions come back to the guy who's butt is on the line legally. Yeah ok, the boss mightn't be sitting next to you all the time, but if you can't monitor the automation and wx radar, and divert around weather, well you have bigger problems going on...
An existing FO would currently be on Lvl 5 pay I believe, making their base about 149k plus super. An ejet captain is currently on about 165k. With allowances an ejet captain would be on more.
As for responsibilities, they sound about the same - normal operational decisions are left to the pilot flying (as long as they make sense), non normal checklists are initiated by the pilot flying, and more serious decisions come back to the guy who's butt is on the line legally. Yeah ok, the boss mightn't be sitting next to you all the time, but if you can't monitor the automation and wx radar, and divert around weather, well you have bigger problems going on...
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grrowlers Ejet captains pay is close to the proposed EBA which was voted down.
Current Ejet captains base pay is $152,267. Allowances for a year are around $10000, giving a total of around $163,000.
The proposed EBA figures were(2012 numbers):
737 Capt: $198,525
737 FO: L1 $109,189 L2 $119,114 L3 $129,041
Ejet Capt: $164,927
Ejet FO: L1 $90,710 L2 $98,956 L3 $107,203
A330 Capt: $217,312
A330 FO: L1 $119,522 L2 $130,387 L3 $141,253
The above figures are base without super.
If you are a member of the AFAP, the current VAA and VAI along with the proposed VAA EBA's are available to view and download.
My guess is once the unions and company sit down again and work out the issues as to why the EBA was voted down, the next one will be very similar including rates of pay.
Current Ejet captains base pay is $152,267. Allowances for a year are around $10000, giving a total of around $163,000.
The proposed EBA figures were(2012 numbers):
737 Capt: $198,525
737 FO: L1 $109,189 L2 $119,114 L3 $129,041
Ejet Capt: $164,927
Ejet FO: L1 $90,710 L2 $98,956 L3 $107,203
A330 Capt: $217,312
A330 FO: L1 $119,522 L2 $130,387 L3 $141,253
The above figures are base without super.
If you are a member of the AFAP, the current VAA and VAI along with the proposed VAA EBA's are available to view and download.
My guess is once the unions and company sit down again and work out the issues as to why the EBA was voted down, the next one will be very similar including rates of pay.
It was voted down because one union was trying to make the other look bad.
It certainly wasn't because they think they can get business class travel and a bucketload more money, if they do they are dreamin'
It certainly wasn't because they think they can get business class travel and a bucketload more money, if they do they are dreamin'
Hello,
Does anyone know when Virgin will start recruiting again? I've had an application in for some time now and still havent heard anything back. Anyone else in this position? Am I wasting my time? Should I try other "more orange" avenues???
Any info would be great, cheers!
Does anyone know when Virgin will start recruiting again? I've had an application in for some time now and still havent heard anything back. Anyone else in this position? Am I wasting my time? Should I try other "more orange" avenues???
Any info would be great, cheers!
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From a passengers point of view, I want the Jet pilots all paid at the A330 rate. From where I sit, both have 2 engines and hundreds of people on them. You can give gold stars for a/c type ratings etc, to us, its all serious work, we want you happy.
We want all Pilots who fly us to have good pay, so they can have the best of everything. A good house, the best health cover, a housemaid, the best insurance. Basically everything they need to make them a happy, relaxed, well rested, stress free pilot. No I am not taking the p15s, trust me, its what every passenger wants.
Same thing for the turbo prop pilots, pay them all at their highest rate for the above reasons.
Pay scales, grades etc are just means bosses use to avoid paying a fair wage. Its the way of life for the rest of us, but Pilots and Ships Captains should be held above all this. No one else has so many lives in their hands. In Australia, we want the best, the best of the best. To attract and keep those pilots, we have to pay top dollar and passengers will pay for it. QANTAS made a very good living from circumstance for decades.
217k is not a lot of money nowdays IMHO for such a pilot. I know people making 120k and I have to prod them now and again to see if they have died at their desk. I reckon the tax would be 70k on 217, so not a lot left for the most trusted and respected profession on earth, more trusted than doctors are airline pilots and rightly so. They have the most vested interest your welfare of any profession, we know it and we are happy to pay fir it.
We want all Pilots who fly us to have good pay, so they can have the best of everything. A good house, the best health cover, a housemaid, the best insurance. Basically everything they need to make them a happy, relaxed, well rested, stress free pilot. No I am not taking the p15s, trust me, its what every passenger wants.
Same thing for the turbo prop pilots, pay them all at their highest rate for the above reasons.
Pay scales, grades etc are just means bosses use to avoid paying a fair wage. Its the way of life for the rest of us, but Pilots and Ships Captains should be held above all this. No one else has so many lives in their hands. In Australia, we want the best, the best of the best. To attract and keep those pilots, we have to pay top dollar and passengers will pay for it. QANTAS made a very good living from circumstance for decades.
217k is not a lot of money nowdays IMHO for such a pilot. I know people making 120k and I have to prod them now and again to see if they have died at their desk. I reckon the tax would be 70k on 217, so not a lot left for the most trusted and respected profession on earth, more trusted than doctors are airline pilots and rightly so. They have the most vested interest your welfare of any profession, we know it and we are happy to pay fir it.
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Here's hoping the latest upbeat news might see a step up in recruitment and they start pulling guys off the hold file.
I'm wondering how many on the hold file are now thinking about throwing an app into Tiger. Looks like they have security there now, rapid expansion and the quickest route to the LHS in Oz.