Virgin Cruise FO: Accepting Interest...
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Because they have no choice. Thats why! Have a good look around GA, it's a joke generally speaking.
Use your brain..... plenty of fun to be had through out the world..... living O/S can be great if your into it - or ever heard of commuting to work?
The bloody airline types just don't remember where they came from or just don't care.
- but off the mark. You will find that most know where they came from and the experiences that they went through are still as fresh as the day thet they occured - from washing the bosses car through to scaring the living bejesus out of yourself on that dark stormy single engine IFR night freight (...or please insert similar...). Some have fond memories of GA - some do not. Of course not all airline pilots are ex GA - there are some ex RAAF, and some who went through a cadet program - so in that regard you are 100% correct. I would suggest that they are in the minority however.
Personally - I chose to go overseas to get turbine time and then overseas again to get an airline job. Best thing I ever did for my own personal development and career.
But that is the choice that I made instead of whinging and resigning myself to mediocrity. Just gotta get out there and find the best "global" business opportunity. Reality is that you will probably have to pack and move to find any descent job in aviation. Suck it up and get out there guys....but I do know that working for $59,000 odd
on a 777 is pure exploitation - go work in a coffee shop instead If you want a pay rise - go work on the Sydney trains as a guard....put another $20,000 with shift penalties on top of the 777 job......
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an3_bolt
How does working in a coffee shop, or at Sydney trains as a gaurd even compare to the experience gained in a B777??
Are you saying you'd rather make coffee for a little more money than be a pilot on a B777? That money may not be enough for you and me to get by, but it's obviously enough for others with family help, investments etc..
With respect, I think you've lost perspective.
How does working in a coffee shop, or at Sydney trains as a gaurd even compare to the experience gained in a B777??
Are you saying you'd rather make coffee for a little more money than be a pilot on a B777? That money may not be enough for you and me to get by, but it's obviously enough for others with family help, investments etc..
With respect, I think you've lost perspective.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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AN_3 Bolt.....a bit naive mate.
Reality is this. The situation that leads to blokes having to take this job is easy to understand, family, bills to pay etc. Given the situation, I'd take it as well.
Remembering what it was like in GA and doing something positive about it are two very different things.
Until an effective union is in place, these jobs will continue to pop up. People at the bottom cannot do much about the current situation....people at the top of the tree can....if they want!
As to the sanctimonious rantings that basically say....don't take the job, I'd answer.... rot!
Krusty........can't see what your point is apart from "I'm right Jack"!
Geeez.
Reality is this. The situation that leads to blokes having to take this job is easy to understand, family, bills to pay etc. Given the situation, I'd take it as well.
Remembering what it was like in GA and doing something positive about it are two very different things.
Until an effective union is in place, these jobs will continue to pop up. People at the bottom cannot do much about the current situation....people at the top of the tree can....if they want!
As to the sanctimonious rantings that basically say....don't take the job, I'd answer.... rot!
Krusty........can't see what your point is apart from "I'm right Jack"!
Geeez.
Join Date: Jul 2005
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a bit naive mate
But I think you don't get my drift - I am not having a go at you in this regard - simply saying that there are options you may simply have not seen or considered.
With that regard:
How does working in a coffee shop, or at Sydney trains as a gaurd even compare to the experience gained in a B777??
Are you saying you'd rather make coffee for a little more money than be a pilot on a B777?
That money may not be enough for you and me to get by, but it's obviously enough for others with family help, investments etc..
People at the bottom cannot do much about the current situation....people at the top of the tree can....if they want!
By the way - just in case you do not know - there are plenty of people at "the top of the tree" (your words not mine as I believe that everyone is in it together...) trying to change what you and others are going through for the better.
Summing up: If you gotta absolutey have that shiney jet seat in Australia right now, today - pull out that VISA card and melt away - as you will be the one paying - today, tomorrow, the next day, the day after that........ But is there another way....
This industry has turned to worms, with the help of that attitude. Just go to J* and tell them you'll fly for 28k. Just get it over and done with...
Jeez, some pretty passionate responses here.
I guess there are guys here who will take this and see it as an opportunity to move up in their careers. Yes the pay may not be flash in comparison to QANTAS or Cathay or Air NZ. With time to command with the legacy carriers somewhere around the 20 year plus mark. I wouldn't want to be making beds and serving the Captain coffee for the next 5 to 10 years before I get to move into the Right seat for another 10 years..
According to the VAus recruiting page it does state:
"Opportunities to progress from Cruise Relief First Officer to First Officer may exist within the company provided a CRFO has sufficient appropriate experience. It is envisaged that in line with forecasted aircraft delivery dates these opportunities will be limited"
It doesn't say that opportunities to progress to First Officer will never happen and no one will be able to predict what is going to happen, but those CRFOs in the company with suitable experience may find themselves F/Os in 2 or 3 years time, a lot sooner than with a legacy carrier - it may take longer too, point is we just don't know.
I have put my name down for it, just under $60K a year is better than what I am on now flying as an F/O on a turboprop for just under $30K outside of Australia, we all make sacrifices for our careers and what we want to do.
I guess there are guys here who will take this and see it as an opportunity to move up in their careers. Yes the pay may not be flash in comparison to QANTAS or Cathay or Air NZ. With time to command with the legacy carriers somewhere around the 20 year plus mark. I wouldn't want to be making beds and serving the Captain coffee for the next 5 to 10 years before I get to move into the Right seat for another 10 years..
According to the VAus recruiting page it does state:
"Opportunities to progress from Cruise Relief First Officer to First Officer may exist within the company provided a CRFO has sufficient appropriate experience. It is envisaged that in line with forecasted aircraft delivery dates these opportunities will be limited"
It doesn't say that opportunities to progress to First Officer will never happen and no one will be able to predict what is going to happen, but those CRFOs in the company with suitable experience may find themselves F/Os in 2 or 3 years time, a lot sooner than with a legacy carrier - it may take longer too, point is we just don't know.
I have put my name down for it, just under $60K a year is better than what I am on now flying as an F/O on a turboprop for just under $30K outside of Australia, we all make sacrifices for our careers and what we want to do.
Given the short sighted attitudes of many on this thread, is it any suprise that the CEO of Voz "dared" insult our profession with the CRZ F/O T&C's on offer?
If you were a CEO, what would you do??.....the race to the bottom is nearly complete.
If you were a CEO, what would you do??.....the race to the bottom is nearly complete.
Join Date: Aug 2006
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What VA is offering is a disgrace.
I have worked hard to get where I am in GA and enjoy my job (G1 MEIFR and occasional CHTR). I basically work 9-5 and earn slightly more than what's on offer at VA. Throughout my time I have enjoyed a great relationship, bought a house and spend plenty of time with family and friends. I've had the opportunity to move on but could not have achieved/enjoyed these things on a regional pay.
I have got this far never having paid for hours, endorsements, renewals etc...
Now why a person would spend so much money on a licence, ratings, hour building etc and then accept a contract like this is completely beyond my comprehension. I can only put it down to lack of maturity or too little time in the job. Flying is not life, it is a job, and while I think the 777 is a brilliant machine and would love to fly one, I'm not going to sacrifice my current situation/lifestyle with such a backwards step. Nor would I accept a job where they said, congratulations, now pay us 30k.
The main question I would ask those who have registered interest is, why is it VA has no clear path for progression within its ranks? How is this attractive?
Any CFO's out there want to talk us through a typical roster? Then we can compare it to QF SO and see how big the divide really is.
I have worked hard to get where I am in GA and enjoy my job (G1 MEIFR and occasional CHTR). I basically work 9-5 and earn slightly more than what's on offer at VA. Throughout my time I have enjoyed a great relationship, bought a house and spend plenty of time with family and friends. I've had the opportunity to move on but could not have achieved/enjoyed these things on a regional pay.
I have got this far never having paid for hours, endorsements, renewals etc...
Now why a person would spend so much money on a licence, ratings, hour building etc and then accept a contract like this is completely beyond my comprehension. I can only put it down to lack of maturity or too little time in the job. Flying is not life, it is a job, and while I think the 777 is a brilliant machine and would love to fly one, I'm not going to sacrifice my current situation/lifestyle with such a backwards step. Nor would I accept a job where they said, congratulations, now pay us 30k.
The main question I would ask those who have registered interest is, why is it VA has no clear path for progression within its ranks? How is this attractive?
Any CFO's out there want to talk us through a typical roster? Then we can compare it to QF SO and see how big the divide really is.
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With time to command with the legacy carriers somewhere around the 20 year plus mark. I wouldn't want to be making beds and serving the Captain coffee for the next 5 to 10 years before I get to move into the Right seat for another 10 years..
If you think that 2 to 3 years is a possibility, you've got rocks in your head. The point is that there will be a stream of applicants for VA, and you can bet your bottom dollar they will be for Direct Entry F/O positions, while all the cruise F/O's sit there logging hour after hour of time that is getting them nowhere, but being paid 80k less than their Qantas brothers for doing the same thing.
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For anyone considering this you WILL be much better off waiting for VB.
VB have been recruiting and will need pilots. The requirements are the same. The pay and conditions at VB are MUCH better.
If you join VA (as a CFO) with the bare minimum experience, you WILL eventually have to transfer to VB.
Good luck with your choices.
VB have been recruiting and will need pilots. The requirements are the same. The pay and conditions at VB are MUCH better.
If you join VA (as a CFO) with the bare minimum experience, you WILL eventually have to transfer to VB.
Good luck with your choices.
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The minimum requirements for this job make it even worse. Perhaps with lower entry requirements, they'd attract willing lower-houred Pilots who drool over the prospect of being anywhere near a 777-3. The position has been rightfully compared to a QF S/O, who only require half the time for Direct Entry, and will earn nearly double. That is 
pathetic.
pathetic.
May need a few more Second Officers (come on, let's call them what they are, it's not an insult, that's their role), heard some of the existing ones are getting a shot at window seats on company 737s. They won't know what do with the (nearly) 100% payrise.
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When you do the training for a type rating as a Cruise F/O position, is there less emphasis on the take-off, approach and landing phases, or is it the same as any other F/O type rating? Just curious.
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I've been out of GA for a few years now, but a combination of circumstance and too much free time found me at a GA airfield earlier today. Basically I was in the area, so thought I would pop in and reminisce about the old days.
Turns out it was less reminiscing, and more cold shudders at the miserable sight I beheld. Can't say I ever enjoyed GA all that much to begin with, but it was still gut-wrenching to catch up with some hard-working, dedicated drivers who are simply doing whatever they can to climb the greasy pole. Just when I start getting disenchanted with terms and conditions at my place of employment, an afternoon with these guys certainly put me back in my place, and made me remember that I'm not better than them - just luckier.
As an airline pilot, I think the V-Oz conditions are disgraceful, but it's easy for me to say that from the perspective of someone who already flies for an airline. On the other hand, some poor bugger getting paid peanuts, flying a clapped-out, questionably unsafe piston-engine bugsmasher, may simply be unable to make that distinction - and I don't think it's fair for us to pass judgment on them as a consequence. Or in other words, it's about not criticising someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes first - and whilst most of us have at some time in our career worn those very same shoes, I daresay it was such a long time ago for some that they've simply forgotten how bad it was.
If I was stuck in GA and had the option to step up to the majors - even if just for a pissy Cruise F/O slot - I can see how it would make for a compelling argument. Thankfully I don't have to consider it, but I bear no ill will towards those who do.
Turns out it was less reminiscing, and more cold shudders at the miserable sight I beheld. Can't say I ever enjoyed GA all that much to begin with, but it was still gut-wrenching to catch up with some hard-working, dedicated drivers who are simply doing whatever they can to climb the greasy pole. Just when I start getting disenchanted with terms and conditions at my place of employment, an afternoon with these guys certainly put me back in my place, and made me remember that I'm not better than them - just luckier.
As an airline pilot, I think the V-Oz conditions are disgraceful, but it's easy for me to say that from the perspective of someone who already flies for an airline. On the other hand, some poor bugger getting paid peanuts, flying a clapped-out, questionably unsafe piston-engine bugsmasher, may simply be unable to make that distinction - and I don't think it's fair for us to pass judgment on them as a consequence. Or in other words, it's about not criticising someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes first - and whilst most of us have at some time in our career worn those very same shoes, I daresay it was such a long time ago for some that they've simply forgotten how bad it was.
If I was stuck in GA and had the option to step up to the majors - even if just for a pissy Cruise F/O slot - I can see how it would make for a compelling argument. Thankfully I don't have to consider it, but I bear no ill will towards those who do.