Oxford Students
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This could safe you thousands.........
First time posted on Pprune and i have made an account especially to post this message.
As a on and off CP in the Top end (KNX) do not arrive on my doorstep with a CV with out 300hrs of which 20 must be in a 200 series Cessna. (Recent incidents have pushed up hour requirements - we are unable to BEND this. It’s easier to pay more in wages to attract guys when needed then it is changing insurance premiums (to an extent). I will ask where you did your training and if you tell me Oxford you’re in for a check ride from hell. Consisting of DR exercise of at least 120nm and ETA's of 30 sec VFR Nav req as a CPL holder this should be achieved. (Different world in remote areas but for those who have command built effectively and not flown in straight lines will be fine) Accommodation is usually 500+ per week and prove of accommodation is required prior employment the backpackers have raised prices due to recent upgrades and out of reach on your 10hrs a week for $35 casual rate( you got to pay tax remember ) in the first few months. You cannot have a good sleep in your 1930's station wagon then expect to fly punters or even drive my mini bus to collect them.
There will be little to know movement this year and a very long wet forecasted. Don't rock up on my doorstep in Jan /Feb. you will be sitting around unpaid for 3-4 mths waiting for a job. IGA does not like hiring pilots anymore.
I repeat: The good ‘old days of 2min noodles sleeping round the fire ant the Kununurra showground in your station wagon or tent are GONE (Good times) diff owners and bigger wets with higher Temps mean this is no longer suitable. The mines have started recruiting locals only so partners of miners take up the IGA and Coles jobs.
The attitudes of the couple from Oxford is bull**** and C, S, N from the Three companies will be paying particular attention to those who come through our doors. Pprune has always been a rumour mill but blokes who read your CVs actually read it.
The folk who have offered you advice are blokes who have done the hard yards and many whom still are. Hell I don't even have the experience to leave and you think you’re a running start for a major … hard work!! Get used to it.
As bugger all jobs are going to be offered this coming season my suggestion is to get your MECIR and ATPLS cause time off to sit exams are rare .Send us your CVs. (1 page) and if you add a Picture of yourself I stable it to your forehead and post the pic on Pprune! I don’t care if you’re a blonde bombshell a( him or her) im probably not going to employ you anyhow. There are a lot of folk whom reside in town now and have no desire to move on. Which is great for us. Jobs in the Top end are great and the best flying you will ever do. Times are tough and bugger all jobs going but im sure things by end 2010 will pick up. Good luck to those seeking your first job.
Nkar.... Get an Instructor rating this is my advice for you .
As a on and off CP in the Top end (KNX) do not arrive on my doorstep with a CV with out 300hrs of which 20 must be in a 200 series Cessna. (Recent incidents have pushed up hour requirements - we are unable to BEND this. It’s easier to pay more in wages to attract guys when needed then it is changing insurance premiums (to an extent). I will ask where you did your training and if you tell me Oxford you’re in for a check ride from hell. Consisting of DR exercise of at least 120nm and ETA's of 30 sec VFR Nav req as a CPL holder this should be achieved. (Different world in remote areas but for those who have command built effectively and not flown in straight lines will be fine) Accommodation is usually 500+ per week and prove of accommodation is required prior employment the backpackers have raised prices due to recent upgrades and out of reach on your 10hrs a week for $35 casual rate( you got to pay tax remember ) in the first few months. You cannot have a good sleep in your 1930's station wagon then expect to fly punters or even drive my mini bus to collect them.
There will be little to know movement this year and a very long wet forecasted. Don't rock up on my doorstep in Jan /Feb. you will be sitting around unpaid for 3-4 mths waiting for a job. IGA does not like hiring pilots anymore.
I repeat: The good ‘old days of 2min noodles sleeping round the fire ant the Kununurra showground in your station wagon or tent are GONE (Good times) diff owners and bigger wets with higher Temps mean this is no longer suitable. The mines have started recruiting locals only so partners of miners take up the IGA and Coles jobs.
The attitudes of the couple from Oxford is bull**** and C, S, N from the Three companies will be paying particular attention to those who come through our doors. Pprune has always been a rumour mill but blokes who read your CVs actually read it.
The folk who have offered you advice are blokes who have done the hard yards and many whom still are. Hell I don't even have the experience to leave and you think you’re a running start for a major … hard work!! Get used to it.
As bugger all jobs are going to be offered this coming season my suggestion is to get your MECIR and ATPLS cause time off to sit exams are rare .Send us your CVs. (1 page) and if you add a Picture of yourself I stable it to your forehead and post the pic on Pprune! I don’t care if you’re a blonde bombshell a( him or her) im probably not going to employ you anyhow. There are a lot of folk whom reside in town now and have no desire to move on. Which is great for us. Jobs in the Top end are great and the best flying you will ever do. Times are tough and bugger all jobs going but im sure things by end 2010 will pick up. Good luck to those seeking your first job.
Nkar.... Get an Instructor rating this is my advice for you .
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I repeat: The good ‘old days of 2min noodles sleeping round the fire ant the Kununurra showground in your station wagon or tent are GONE (Good times) diff owners and bigger wets with higher Temps mean this is no longer suitable. The mines have started recruiting locals only so partners of miners take up the IGA and Coles jobs.
You cannot have a good sleep in your 1930's station wagon
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b_sta awesomeness
I'd like to say I think the best input into this 'discussion', which raises a FAIRLY good point.. is b_sta's post.. of michael jackson image eating popcorn.. HILLarious. 
Join Date: Mar 2000
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To all concerned. Fisrt of all this post just goes to show what is wrong with the industry. The reason i am posting is because i want to offer some advice. You can choose to take it or leave it but i hope it helps at least someone.
You are all in the same industry. Work Together. Most of you will get that dream job. If you work hard and try your best you will get the job. Look after your mates because you will all end up in the same job in 10-15 years time. We will not tolerate this type of bickering and resentment to others because they have not done what you have done behaviour in the flight deck. If you come to work with this mentality of im a GA driver or an instructor or a Meat bomber so im better than you attitiude then you are in for a rude shock when you get here.
Look ive done all types of jobs in this game, the biggest thing you young guys and girls can learn from this post is to work hard, respect your fellow colleagues and keep your mouth shut until in a position to open it. Everyone should work together here because guess what thats what we do in the airlines!!!
It does not matter where you have come from prior to joining an airline. All types of experience in this industry are great. We dont judge an instructor different to a charter pilot or a RAAF FJ pilot. We take all types, and remember we are looking for a PILOT at the end of the day that is bright, good willed, knowledgeable and easy to get along with.
Good luck to all of you aspiring for the top job. You will get there in due time so for the moment sit back relax and enjoy all the wonders that this industry has to offer in all forms of flying.
Rather than posting here, conserve your energy and enjoy your youth not worrying about trying to hurt one another. We are in this together!
Cheers
You are all in the same industry. Work Together. Most of you will get that dream job. If you work hard and try your best you will get the job. Look after your mates because you will all end up in the same job in 10-15 years time. We will not tolerate this type of bickering and resentment to others because they have not done what you have done behaviour in the flight deck. If you come to work with this mentality of im a GA driver or an instructor or a Meat bomber so im better than you attitiude then you are in for a rude shock when you get here.
Look ive done all types of jobs in this game, the biggest thing you young guys and girls can learn from this post is to work hard, respect your fellow colleagues and keep your mouth shut until in a position to open it. Everyone should work together here because guess what thats what we do in the airlines!!!
It does not matter where you have come from prior to joining an airline. All types of experience in this industry are great. We dont judge an instructor different to a charter pilot or a RAAF FJ pilot. We take all types, and remember we are looking for a PILOT at the end of the day that is bright, good willed, knowledgeable and easy to get along with.
Good luck to all of you aspiring for the top job. You will get there in due time so for the moment sit back relax and enjoy all the wonders that this industry has to offer in all forms of flying.
Rather than posting here, conserve your energy and enjoy your youth not worrying about trying to hurt one another. We are in this together!
Cheers
Just a question for TOPENDCHIEFPILOT, what makes you an expert on all things aviation and what experience do you bring to the table?
If you really are a Chief Pilot of ones those dodgy/sh$tbox operations in YPKU perhaps you had better get some mentoring from a more experienced Chief Pilot, so that you can set an example for your own pilots. Having unfortunatley transitted through YPKU lately, I feel very sorry for the RPT guys that fly in and out of the place.
To be a good Chief Pilot one has to act in a professional manner, display a good knowledge of the company operations, have a very good knowledge of the aircraft that you operate, be knowledgable on the local weather conditions, and also be a mentor for a newly minted CPL Pilot, don't expect them to be a big tough Kimberly pilot from day one. For a new CPL's the first job sets the standard for the rest of their career, if they survive they move onto the next job, or walk away from the industry or get sent home in a coffin.
Who conceived the idea of the +/- 30 seconds for ETA's, isn't the AIP standard of +/- 2 minutes good enough for your high standard?
Why the big industry myth about 200 series Cessna? I used to private hire a C210N after completing my UPPL licence. A gentleman learning to fly at another local school didn't like learning to fly in their C152/C172 so he went off and bought a C182 and did his RPPL/UPPL/NVMC and then later his IFR Rating. I can't remember his instructors saying he needed 100 hours or whatever in C172 before he could progress onto something bigger. Cessna built C152/172 to teach average people to fly and then they would hopefully sell them a C182/206/210 and then one day they would then progress into a Cessna twin.
I flew some Yanks around and one of the guys had his own construction business and learnt to fly during the 1970's at a Cessna Pilot Centre in a C150, and was hiring aircraft to fly out to his worksite when he decide to buy a new C206 which he still owned and was also flying a late model C310R which he hoped to upgrade to a Citation.
It is a Cessna 200 series afterall not the Space Shuttle.
If you really are a Chief Pilot of ones those dodgy/sh$tbox operations in YPKU perhaps you had better get some mentoring from a more experienced Chief Pilot, so that you can set an example for your own pilots. Having unfortunatley transitted through YPKU lately, I feel very sorry for the RPT guys that fly in and out of the place.
To be a good Chief Pilot one has to act in a professional manner, display a good knowledge of the company operations, have a very good knowledge of the aircraft that you operate, be knowledgable on the local weather conditions, and also be a mentor for a newly minted CPL Pilot, don't expect them to be a big tough Kimberly pilot from day one. For a new CPL's the first job sets the standard for the rest of their career, if they survive they move onto the next job, or walk away from the industry or get sent home in a coffin.
Who conceived the idea of the +/- 30 seconds for ETA's, isn't the AIP standard of +/- 2 minutes good enough for your high standard?
Why the big industry myth about 200 series Cessna? I used to private hire a C210N after completing my UPPL licence. A gentleman learning to fly at another local school didn't like learning to fly in their C152/C172 so he went off and bought a C182 and did his RPPL/UPPL/NVMC and then later his IFR Rating. I can't remember his instructors saying he needed 100 hours or whatever in C172 before he could progress onto something bigger. Cessna built C152/172 to teach average people to fly and then they would hopefully sell them a C182/206/210 and then one day they would then progress into a Cessna twin.
I flew some Yanks around and one of the guys had his own construction business and learnt to fly during the 1970's at a Cessna Pilot Centre in a C150, and was hiring aircraft to fly out to his worksite when he decide to buy a new C206 which he still owned and was also flying a late model C310R which he hoped to upgrade to a Citation.
It is a Cessna 200 series afterall not the Space Shuttle.
It is a Cessna 200 series afterall not the Space Shuttle.
It probably didn't help that I led him down the garden path by asking to have a look and stating that I'd never flown a 210 before (which I haven't)...you shoulda seen the chest puff out when I said that, priceless...
But, really good post Benn
j3
Originally Posted by topendchiefpilot
First time posted on PPRuNe and i have made an account especially to post this message.
As a on and off CP in the Top end (KNX) do not arrive on my doorstep with a CV with out 300hrs of which 20 must be in a 200 series Cessna. (Recent incidents have pushed up hour requirements - we are unable to BEND this. It’s easier to pay more in wages to attract guys when needed then it is changing insurance premiums (to an extent).
As a on and off CP in the Top end (KNX) do not arrive on my doorstep with a CV with out 300hrs of which 20 must be in a 200 series Cessna. (Recent incidents have pushed up hour requirements - we are unable to BEND this. It’s easier to pay more in wages to attract guys when needed then it is changing insurance premiums (to an extent).
I will ask where you did your training and if you tell me Oxford you’re in for a check ride from hell. Consisting of DR exercise of at least 120nm and ETA's of 30 sec VFR Nav req as a CPL holder this should be achieved. (Different world in remote areas but for those who have command built effectively and not flown in straight lines will be fine)
The CASA day VFR syllabus is here. Located on page 28 you will find the requirements for enroute navigation. The standard is +/- 2 minutes.
Accommodation is usually 500+ per week
Expect about $260 a week for a caravan or less if you can find a room.
and prove of accommodation is required prior employment the backpackers have raised prices due to recent upgrades and out of reach on your 10hrs a week for $35 casual rate( you got to pay tax remember )
in the first few months. You cannot have a good sleep in your 1930's station wagon then expect to fly punters or even drive my mini bus to collect them.
There will be little to know movement this year and a very long wet forecasted.
Will be a late cyclone season and more than likely a late Monsoon.
Don't rock up on my doorstep in Jan /Feb. you will be sitting around unpaid for 3-4 mths waiting for a job. IGA does not like hiring pilots anymore.
If you are not there in Jan or Feb you will miss the season unless you are very lucky.
I repeat: The good ‘old days of 2min noodles sleeping round the fire ant the Kununurra showground in your station wagon or tent are GONE (Good times) diff owners and bigger wets with higher Temps mean this is no longer suitable. The mines have started recruiting locals only so partners of miners take up the IGA and Coles jobs.
The attitudes of the couple from Oxford is bull**** and C, S, N from the Three companies will be paying particular attention to those who come through our doors. PPRuNe has always been a rumour mill but blokes who read your CVs actually read it.
The folk who have offered you advice are blokes who have done the hard yards and many whom still are. Hell I don't even have the experience to leave and you think you’re a running start for a major … hard work!! Get used to it.
As bugger all jobs are going to be offered this coming season my suggestion is to get your MECIR and ATPLS cause time off to sit exams are rare .Send us your CVs. (1 page) and if you add a Picture of yourself I stable it to your forehead and post the pic on PPRuNe! I don’t care if you’re a blonde bombshell a( him or her) im probably not going to employ you anyhow. There are a lot of folk whom reside in town now and have no desire to move on. Which is great for us. Jobs in the Top end are great and the best flying you will ever do. Times are tough and bugger all jobs going but im sure things by end 2010 will pick up. Good luck to those seeking your first job.
Nkar.... Get an Instructor rating this is my advice for you .
Get a CPL as cheap as you can with the most experienced instructor and head north!
Very very tricky aeroplanes those C210's, they have three bladed props, fuel injection, retractable undercarriage, laminar flow wing, no struts, six seats and most have two VHF radios.
CASA really should make it a mandatory 50 hour course in a full motion simulator with Flight Safety then another 50 hours line flying with a person with at least 25,000 hours in C210's, before a six hour checkride with a CASA FOI.
Funny the old dude that gave me a C210 check ride, showed me that if it all went tits up, pull the throttle back to 17", take the first stage of flap and then put the wheels down and suddenly it become a Cessna 172 and was happy to fly along at 80 knots. The other tips were keep the weight of the nosewheel, know how the undercarriage works and slow it down in turbulence.
CASA really should make it a mandatory 50 hour course in a full motion simulator with Flight Safety then another 50 hours line flying with a person with at least 25,000 hours in C210's, before a six hour checkride with a CASA FOI.
Funny the old dude that gave me a C210 check ride, showed me that if it all went tits up, pull the throttle back to 17", take the first stage of flap and then put the wheels down and suddenly it become a Cessna 172 and was happy to fly along at 80 knots. The other tips were keep the weight of the nosewheel, know how the undercarriage works and slow it down in turbulence.
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CASA really should make it a mandatory 50 hour course in a full motion simulator with Flight Safety then another 50 hours line flying with a person with at least 25,000 hours in C210's, before a six hour checkride with a CASA FOI.
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OAA in Reality
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']I’ve had firsthand experience of integrated training at what is claimed to be Britain’s and the world’s premier flight training organisation. Some of the experiences of my fellow trainees make that difficult to believe.[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']The ground school is largely excellent; it’s the flight training where the problems begin, specifically in the US. The training centre in the USA is at times very poor value for money. There is zero standardisation of training and assessment, and there are a few instructors who are nothing more than arrogant bullies, who are a law unto themselves and whose treatment of students is nothing more than extremely abusive. There have been many instances of students refusing to fly any further with instructors for this reason. You can be sure the same names would crop up time and time again in any forum on this subject. [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']It should be mentioned there are many instructors in the US who are excellent, lovely individuals and are as good a teacher as they are pilots. It’s just unfortunate though that there is a minority that aren’t, and that really heavily detract from the good work of their colleagues, undermining what could otherwise be a first class set up. [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']The level of training off some, oddly enough usually the arrogant bullies, can be too low to be even classed as sub-standard. In spite of all the arrogant rants about how many hours and what airline they flew for. If you were so good why did they dispense with your services? Just because they have an instructor rating doesn’t mean they can teach, and some are incapable, never can, never will, no matter what their backgrounds.
Additional training at a heavy additional cost can result because of this, and has been given to students by some instructors needlessly on the thinnest or most pathetic of reasons. Flight reports can be as severely affected as your mental health by extremely negative and quite damaging entries to training records from instructors who have taken a personal dislike to their students.
To add further insult, any complaints are completely dismissed with no right to appeal, the senior staff covering for instructors no matter what the complaint, or how obvious the problem. Surely when two or more people raise a complaint there is obviously a very real problem, and yet still nothing is done about it. It’s happened so many times before and keeps happening again and again. They don’t seem to take any interest in your rights out there after they’ve taken your money. We’re all sure it’s just a matter of time before somebody sues, and rightly so after paying almost seventy thousand pounds, and it will be interesting to see OAA’s standpoint if someone takes an instructor to court for bullying, victimisation, or some other customer service issues. There have been cases where, had individuals decided on that particular means of action, OAA would have been placed in a highly damaging and embarrassing position. Fear of a poor report or of not getting a recommendation usually putting people off doing so. [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']The only people whom even get close to a fair hearing are the EPST students, OAA being wary of negative reports reaching EPST of sub-standard training or behaviour by some instructors and of potentially losing a very lucrative contract with EPST.
We’re sure Anthony Petteford himself isn’t fully aware of what goes on out there in his absence, and for someone as committed to OAA and to quality, as Anthony undoubtedly is, that he’d be quite shocked at the standards and behaviour of some of his flight training staff. [/FONT]
It’s quite disheartening too when you return to Oxford to begin your IR to find the pass rate was currently 60%. However, the standard of instruction is higher in the UK is more assured compared to that of the US, with some excellent instructors who give their all to their students.
So the reality is not the same as the glossy image portrayed for everyone, it just depends how lucky you are, but luck shouldn’t have to come into it after paying in excess of sixty-five thousand for flight training. Quality should be assured. OAA need to recognise and rectify this, and then they could easily be as good as advertised for all students without exception.
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']The ground school is largely excellent; it’s the flight training where the problems begin, specifically in the US. The training centre in the USA is at times very poor value for money. There is zero standardisation of training and assessment, and there are a few instructors who are nothing more than arrogant bullies, who are a law unto themselves and whose treatment of students is nothing more than extremely abusive. There have been many instances of students refusing to fly any further with instructors for this reason. You can be sure the same names would crop up time and time again in any forum on this subject. [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']It should be mentioned there are many instructors in the US who are excellent, lovely individuals and are as good a teacher as they are pilots. It’s just unfortunate though that there is a minority that aren’t, and that really heavily detract from the good work of their colleagues, undermining what could otherwise be a first class set up. [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']The level of training off some, oddly enough usually the arrogant bullies, can be too low to be even classed as sub-standard. In spite of all the arrogant rants about how many hours and what airline they flew for. If you were so good why did they dispense with your services? Just because they have an instructor rating doesn’t mean they can teach, and some are incapable, never can, never will, no matter what their backgrounds.
Additional training at a heavy additional cost can result because of this, and has been given to students by some instructors needlessly on the thinnest or most pathetic of reasons. Flight reports can be as severely affected as your mental health by extremely negative and quite damaging entries to training records from instructors who have taken a personal dislike to their students.
To add further insult, any complaints are completely dismissed with no right to appeal, the senior staff covering for instructors no matter what the complaint, or how obvious the problem. Surely when two or more people raise a complaint there is obviously a very real problem, and yet still nothing is done about it. It’s happened so many times before and keeps happening again and again. They don’t seem to take any interest in your rights out there after they’ve taken your money. We’re all sure it’s just a matter of time before somebody sues, and rightly so after paying almost seventy thousand pounds, and it will be interesting to see OAA’s standpoint if someone takes an instructor to court for bullying, victimisation, or some other customer service issues. There have been cases where, had individuals decided on that particular means of action, OAA would have been placed in a highly damaging and embarrassing position. Fear of a poor report or of not getting a recommendation usually putting people off doing so. [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']The only people whom even get close to a fair hearing are the EPST students, OAA being wary of negative reports reaching EPST of sub-standard training or behaviour by some instructors and of potentially losing a very lucrative contract with EPST.
We’re sure Anthony Petteford himself isn’t fully aware of what goes on out there in his absence, and for someone as committed to OAA and to quality, as Anthony undoubtedly is, that he’d be quite shocked at the standards and behaviour of some of his flight training staff. [/FONT]
It’s quite disheartening too when you return to Oxford to begin your IR to find the pass rate was currently 60%. However, the standard of instruction is higher in the UK is more assured compared to that of the US, with some excellent instructors who give their all to their students.
So the reality is not the same as the glossy image portrayed for everyone, it just depends how lucky you are, but luck shouldn’t have to come into it after paying in excess of sixty-five thousand for flight training. Quality should be assured. OAA need to recognise and rectify this, and then they could easily be as good as advertised for all students without exception.