Oxford Students
Join Date: Dec 2002
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I haven't read the whole thread so pardon me if i repeat some point already made.
Where you train will have virtually nothing to do with who or when you get a job in GA, the regionals, the airlines or the space program. Having a degree might affect your chances with the space program but will not affect the other three.
Getting a job particularly in GA has everything to do with hitting the road, presenting yourself in a professional courteous manner and meeting as many of the correct operators that your budget will allow. Build your contacts follow your meetings up, be patient, reliable and have a "can do" attitude that is combined with a willingness to do a bloody good hard days work. Be persistent and do not give up. Finally the biggest thing of all: Right place Right time (this includes all categories of avaition and life!).
Put all the glossy brochures away, save your pennies and try and learn how to fly from your flying school nevermind what airlines/ga are going to bloody think.
Where you train will have virtually nothing to do with who or when you get a job in GA, the regionals, the airlines or the space program. Having a degree might affect your chances with the space program but will not affect the other three.
Getting a job particularly in GA has everything to do with hitting the road, presenting yourself in a professional courteous manner and meeting as many of the correct operators that your budget will allow. Build your contacts follow your meetings up, be patient, reliable and have a "can do" attitude that is combined with a willingness to do a bloody good hard days work. Be persistent and do not give up. Finally the biggest thing of all: Right place Right time (this includes all categories of avaition and life!).
Put all the glossy brochures away, save your pennies and try and learn how to fly from your flying school nevermind what airlines/ga are going to bloody think.
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Ok, back on topic now. So what's the rationale of doing most of the instrument rating in the single engine aircraft?
What's the percentage of airline cadets to private students?
What's the percentage of airline cadets to private students?
Join Date: Dec 2002
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I was bored and am waiting for Mrs Hat to bring me my Green Chicken curry and beer so I skimmed thru the thread.
First of all you've got to do what you think is right. If that is going to an expensive school then do that.
I don't want to get into specifics of what works and why but what I can say from experience is this: If you get to know someone that is in the industry and has been thru ga then you can learn from their mistakes and cut some of the pain out. The times I didn't listen to MY mentors were the most costly mistakes I ever made.
There are people on this forum that can offer you the heads up on the real world. They might not say stuff you want to hear but it is worth listening to.
First of all you've got to do what you think is right. If that is going to an expensive school then do that.
I don't want to get into specifics of what works and why but what I can say from experience is this: If you get to know someone that is in the industry and has been thru ga then you can learn from their mistakes and cut some of the pain out. The times I didn't listen to MY mentors were the most costly mistakes I ever made.
There are people on this forum that can offer you the heads up on the real world. They might not say stuff you want to hear but it is worth listening to.
Join Date: Nov 2006
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hey there...why is it done on a single? i ask myself that too, i guess its done so that oaa can offer a very attractive training package at a lower price, rather than doing seminole then kingair endorsements. What it does is gives you exposure to FMS systems, depressurisation and so on, just to add to the airline training experience. Its a good marketing tool if you think about it.
flypy,
im about 99% sure i know who you are mate, you were a failure at uni and during your flyin...oh and not to mention life as it is. Thus why you didnt complete the course, also consider those friends you know at oxford no more mate. next time i see you, ill have a few words to say if you dare show your face around us.
soseg, you should know a wind up when you see one, appreciate the support however.
flypy,
im about 99% sure i know who you are mate, you were a failure at uni and during your flyin...oh and not to mention life as it is. Thus why you didnt complete the course, also consider those friends you know at oxford no more mate. next time i see you, ill have a few words to say if you dare show your face around us.
soseg, you should know a wind up when you see one, appreciate the support however.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Now now newagebird, play by the rules. I didn't insult you. I know who you are, and I know Oxford is very precious to you, so I'll try not to hurt your feelings any more.
But you are categorically wrong on every allegation, unfortunately, and I'm happy to sit down some time and have a chat about it if you really like
But you are categorically wrong on every allegation, unfortunately, and I'm happy to sit down some time and have a chat about it if you really like
. I thought this was a 'professional' pilots forum.
Join Date: Aug 2009
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ok nkand, I am seriously not trying to get a bite here but please enlighten me because I think you really need to assess the way and the speed your career is going to progress.
On getting to the airlines you said "there are many routes and that is one option" on GA.
Sounds like you think that you will get another option and GA is just a fallback.
Then you say in 2-3 years you will be in an airline and you havent even finished your training yet.
In case you haven't noticed the airlines have stopped recruitment and there is very little in the way of GA progression and this has filled numerous threads on pprune. Who is telling you that you will get into an airline so quick? Talking with some mates in the industry, I/we are resigned to the fact that we will be were we are for at least the next 12months before the economic conditions improve for us to move on. Some people are even saying another 2-3 years which scares me.
No, I am not a whinger. I love where I am in GA at the moment. No I am not jealous, I have a job which I spent many years looking for and hence I want to try and help newbies see the accurate picture. Right now is not the best time to be starting out in aviation. Ring around the operators up north and ask them how many pilots they are hiring and the answer will be not many, ask about newbies and they may not say it but why take a 200hr pilot with experience when there are guys leaving kunners and Broome with 600-700hrs.
If you sit down and really ask yourself these questions, you may see how some of the things that have been thrown around by people at MB are alot rosier than the picture I have painted.
In response to wwejosh, vary rarely will the school that you trained at have a direct impact on your prospects of employment. Glass cockpit, fine fly a glass cockpit but before you jump in a plane with the CP for your first job, get some time in a steam driven aircraft. As stated in all the other threads about finding that first job the factor that will get you a job is attitude. Don't have a bad one and be presentable.
Talk to as many pilots as you can. Learn their names. Try and get them to learn your name. Its all about networking, it means jobs find you because they have thrown your name in the hat.
Know your checks, know your regs.
Finally, don't sell yourself short and stand up for yourself. You are a professional pilot. There is a big difference between going the extra yard and working for free.
On getting to the airlines you said "there are many routes and that is one option" on GA.
Sounds like you think that you will get another option and GA is just a fallback.
Then you say in 2-3 years you will be in an airline and you havent even finished your training yet.
In case you haven't noticed the airlines have stopped recruitment and there is very little in the way of GA progression and this has filled numerous threads on pprune. Who is telling you that you will get into an airline so quick? Talking with some mates in the industry, I/we are resigned to the fact that we will be were we are for at least the next 12months before the economic conditions improve for us to move on. Some people are even saying another 2-3 years which scares me.
No, I am not a whinger. I love where I am in GA at the moment. No I am not jealous, I have a job which I spent many years looking for and hence I want to try and help newbies see the accurate picture. Right now is not the best time to be starting out in aviation. Ring around the operators up north and ask them how many pilots they are hiring and the answer will be not many, ask about newbies and they may not say it but why take a 200hr pilot with experience when there are guys leaving kunners and Broome with 600-700hrs.
If you sit down and really ask yourself these questions, you may see how some of the things that have been thrown around by people at MB are alot rosier than the picture I have painted.
In response to wwejosh, vary rarely will the school that you trained at have a direct impact on your prospects of employment. Glass cockpit, fine fly a glass cockpit but before you jump in a plane with the CP for your first job, get some time in a steam driven aircraft. As stated in all the other threads about finding that first job the factor that will get you a job is attitude. Don't have a bad one and be presentable.
Talk to as many pilots as you can. Learn their names. Try and get them to learn your name. Its all about networking, it means jobs find you because they have thrown your name in the hat.
Know your checks, know your regs.
Finally, don't sell yourself short and stand up for yourself. You are a professional pilot. There is a big difference between going the extra yard and working for free.
Join Date: May 2008
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The biggest bit of advice I can give to these kids is to keep your mouths shut. You dont know who is reading this forum and you've given too much as to your identity away. All you need to do now is apply for work with someone you've been abusing and by the close of business your name will be mud in the industry. This industry is too small and full of too many blabbermouths to be abusing or running your mouth off about anything.
GFS/Oxford is fine. Its a rip off but its fine. You will get the same level of training where ever you go because you're going to be trained by the same kids on the same path as every other instructor. The biggest thing is finding a good instructor who works as hard at teaching his students as they do at learning. I would work for hours thinking of ways to teaching students who were struggling. In the end it would pay off, but at the same time I had a lot of instructors put students up for test and I'd fail them becuase they wouldn't meet my standards. I knew that I could send my students to any strip in the country and they would be (in the words of best instructor) FOOIINNEEEE!
Now this was at one of the cheapest flying schools in Australia, using average aircraft with next to no SOP's. All my CPL students now have jobs. The instructors that were there (who were all inbread) when I was training are now all in airlines. In short it doesnt matter where you go its as Mr. Hat said, how hard you're willing to work for it; which starts from Day 1 of your training.
And my final thought; I had so much to say but it all gives too much away. Lets just say that there are a lot of people you see every day laughing at you right now boys.
PS Which one of you owns the Z3? hahaha aahhhh good times.
GFS/Oxford is fine. Its a rip off but its fine. You will get the same level of training where ever you go because you're going to be trained by the same kids on the same path as every other instructor. The biggest thing is finding a good instructor who works as hard at teaching his students as they do at learning. I would work for hours thinking of ways to teaching students who were struggling. In the end it would pay off, but at the same time I had a lot of instructors put students up for test and I'd fail them becuase they wouldn't meet my standards. I knew that I could send my students to any strip in the country and they would be (in the words of best instructor) FOOIINNEEEE!
Now this was at one of the cheapest flying schools in Australia, using average aircraft with next to no SOP's. All my CPL students now have jobs. The instructors that were there (who were all inbread) when I was training are now all in airlines. In short it doesnt matter where you go its as Mr. Hat said, how hard you're willing to work for it; which starts from Day 1 of your training.
And my final thought; I had so much to say but it all gives too much away. Lets just say that there are a lot of people you see every day laughing at you right now boys.
PS Which one of you owns the Z3? hahaha aahhhh good times.
Join Date: Sep 2009
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Geez guys, well at least a few of you guys attempted to answer wwejosh's question (Mr. Hat, the air up there, eocvictim, soseg) 
wwejosh, what they said is accurate. ya first gig will rely on presentation, professionalism, luck (right place at the right time), talking to as many people and making contacts, and the determination to put in the hard yards at the start. you will come across guys like flypy who do like to sell you a one sided argument just because they have had a bad experience along the way somewhere
Actually flypy, I know who you are, and I'd bet my money you are still a drop kick. Do you even have your CPL yet after all these years?
wwejosh, what they said is accurate. ya first gig will rely on presentation, professionalism, luck (right place at the right time), talking to as many people and making contacts, and the determination to put in the hard yards at the start. you will come across guys like flypy who do like to sell you a one sided argument just because they have had a bad experience along the way somewhere
But you are categorically wrong on every allegation, unfortunately, and I'm happy to sit down some time and have a chat about it if you really like 
Join Date: May 2008
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Just to add to the comments on making contacts. Facebook really is your friend. So many short links between all the top GA jobs on facebook, try to connect with all your instructors friends too. Who you know can skip you into a company over someone with 1000hours more than you.
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Just to add to the comments on making contacts. Facebook really is your friend. So many short links between all the top GA jobs on facebook, try to connect with all your instructors friends too. Who you know can skip you into a company over someone with 1000hours more than you.
As one wise man once said- it's not what you know it's who you know
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Don't know about contacts getting you in over someone with 1000hrs more than you. Not for entry level pilots anyway. 1200 vs 250, I know who I'd choose. It would depend on the job type and the higher timed guys answers also. But 500hrs is a maybe for an entry level job if the boss really likes your mate, for similar hours contacts ARE the difference between getting a start and "sorry, call again next week".
And people, the "sorry, call again next week" line will get used like a broken record by the CP if you are just another pilot.
And people, the "sorry, call again next week" line will get used like a broken record by the CP if you are just another pilot.
WOW!!!
and from friends who have gone back to analog I have not heard any complaints or any issues in regards to it. But as for someone who started from zero on glass... no clue
Join Date: Jan 2006
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The air up there.....this is what you have to look forward to!
Chins up boys and girls...it's only for a little while longer. Then you get to go to an airline and say things like..."ah, GA days, when we REALLY used to fly"....or...."I miss the early mornings in Bankstown etc etc etc. Once there, you get divorced from your childhood sweetheart who has discovered that the industry essentially doesn't change, get remarried to a hot cart tart...and divorce again when she finds out you've been boffing her old work/flatmate (who was, lets face it; far hotter than the second wife any old way!!). You spend a few years in management, taking your leave on staff flights to Bangcock...oops Bangkok, for about ten years before taking a shine to that lovely little drinks waitress of dubious genetic beginnings in the "Wun yung boi" bar and bring her to begin a new married life in Australia, before...yep...you guessed it...you divorce again at the age of 65.
Seeing as all three wives have taken every cent you've ever earnt, you begin working as a crusty old sim instructor at the airline before being fired for "conduct unbecoming", move back to Bankstown where you work in Aerospace again for a time.
One day you don't turn up for work due to being detained at the YSSY perimeter fence...apparently you were yelling incomprehensible spit filled obsceneties at landing aircraft!!
Eventually you end up in the care of a limp wristed, twisted "Hellfire Club attending" palative care nurse who has his way with you for the final days of your life!
And all because you believed the brochure......sweet dreams!
Chins up boys and girls...it's only for a little while longer. Then you get to go to an airline and say things like..."ah, GA days, when we REALLY used to fly"....or...."I miss the early mornings in Bankstown etc etc etc. Once there, you get divorced from your childhood sweetheart who has discovered that the industry essentially doesn't change, get remarried to a hot cart tart...and divorce again when she finds out you've been boffing her old work/flatmate (who was, lets face it; far hotter than the second wife any old way!!). You spend a few years in management, taking your leave on staff flights to Bangcock...oops Bangkok, for about ten years before taking a shine to that lovely little drinks waitress of dubious genetic beginnings in the "Wun yung boi" bar and bring her to begin a new married life in Australia, before...yep...you guessed it...you divorce again at the age of 65.
Seeing as all three wives have taken every cent you've ever earnt, you begin working as a crusty old sim instructor at the airline before being fired for "conduct unbecoming", move back to Bankstown where you work in Aerospace again for a time.
One day you don't turn up for work due to being detained at the YSSY perimeter fence...apparently you were yelling incomprehensible spit filled obsceneties at landing aircraft!!
Eventually you end up in the care of a limp wristed, twisted "Hellfire Club attending" palative care nurse who has his way with you for the final days of your life!
And all because you believed the brochure......sweet dreams!
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GADRIVR, the detail with which you described my future was amazing. Having seen my future now flash before my eyes, I have two options. Follow the vision you have described or I can run into the nearest flying school, rip all the glossy brochures from the wall, cover them in AvGas and light them up to save future generations fom our torment.
Then my medical will be revoked due to alledged pschological issues. I will be locked up in an institution, not for the arsonist actions previously mentioned, but for thinking that aviation would be a rewarding career. Upon being released after extensive electric shock therapy I begin a long and successful career as a stop-go man for the local council, earning more money than i did in GA anyway.
Living the dream lads.
Then my medical will be revoked due to alledged pschological issues. I will be locked up in an institution, not for the arsonist actions previously mentioned, but for thinking that aviation would be a rewarding career. Upon being released after extensive electric shock therapy I begin a long and successful career as a stop-go man for the local council, earning more money than i did in GA anyway.
Living the dream lads.