Mega Merged: REX Recruitment/Cadetship and Working for REX
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Aussssland
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe the graduated cadets don't come back to this forum because they signed a contract and it might be stipulated they can't talk about it here. Or maybe they find it pointless coming back and trying to change your point of view.
Rest assured that if I don't have to sign something not allowing me to do so, I will come back to talk about my experience, whether it's good or bad.
For the moment I can talk in behalf of a couple of mates in their early thirties who have just finished the REX cadetship and are loving it. Have another 4 mates half way through it, and loving it. Have a couple of mates doing the Jetstar one and love it. Have a couple of mates doing the Qantas one and they are indiferent as they are getting the same training as me and have the same job opportunities as me, nil. One mate doing the Cathay one and loving it. Lastly, one doing the Etihad one, and eventhough he had to wait almost a year after being accepted, he is now living the dream.
Not quite sure if they will come here to brag about their positions, or to fight with people who hate cadetships, but I can tell you one thing, they all love it. I hope I do too.
Can I ask a quick question, where do you all people who hate the cadetships work at the moment?? And if possible what is your age bracket?? I've always had this two questions and it would be great to know.
Rest assured that if I don't have to sign something not allowing me to do so, I will come back to talk about my experience, whether it's good or bad.
For the moment I can talk in behalf of a couple of mates in their early thirties who have just finished the REX cadetship and are loving it. Have another 4 mates half way through it, and loving it. Have a couple of mates doing the Jetstar one and love it. Have a couple of mates doing the Qantas one and they are indiferent as they are getting the same training as me and have the same job opportunities as me, nil. One mate doing the Cathay one and loving it. Lastly, one doing the Etihad one, and eventhough he had to wait almost a year after being accepted, he is now living the dream.
Not quite sure if they will come here to brag about their positions, or to fight with people who hate cadetships, but I can tell you one thing, they all love it. I hope I do too.
Can I ask a quick question, where do you all people who hate the cadetships work at the moment?? And if possible what is your age bracket?? I've always had this two questions and it would be great to know.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LL,
[qoute]Maybe the graduated cadets don't come back to this forum because they signed a contract and it might be stipulated they can't talk about it here. Or maybe they find it pointless coming back and trying to change your point of view.[/quote]
Short of hiring police psychics, I imigine it would be pretty difficult for airlines to determine exactly who posted what on an anonymous forum. If you squint your brain, you may even realise that is WHY it is anonymous.
The system that has been in place for donkey's years would disagree, but what would it know.
To whoever started the thread about feeding the trolls, i wasnt going to but it all just got away from me
[qoute]Maybe the graduated cadets don't come back to this forum because they signed a contract and it might be stipulated they can't talk about it here. Or maybe they find it pointless coming back and trying to change your point of view.[/quote]
Short of hiring police psychics, I imigine it would be pretty difficult for airlines to determine exactly who posted what on an anonymous forum. If you squint your brain, you may even realise that is WHY it is anonymous.
These people have just spent many years flying crappy aircraft, in crappy places, trying to get their experience (only hours, as I don't believe experience obtained in a Cessna 172 can be compared with that needed for an A320)
To whoever started the thread about feeding the trolls, i wasnt going to but it all just got away from me
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also, I don't understand why REX would be preferencial to GA anyway. The money is pretty much the same, if not better in GA. Presumably at the end of the bond period the cadets just cut and run to the jets, but if you're bonded for 6 years how does that possibly make it any better than flying a conquest or king air out of darwin or cairns. At least that way you'd have command hours and you wouldnt have to live in wagga
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Oombi
Age: 42
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Missing the point LL
LL no disrespect intended but I think you may be missing the point with regard to why so many dislike the cadetships. And, this dislike is not directed toward the majority of the people doing these cadetships on a personal level either. Most are very good people with the right attitude toward the job. But the fact is you are being played for a fool if you think that it's simply a way to a streamlined career in the industry with a great lifestyle and good money (especially in the case of REX's cadetship).
As stated many times these schemes are not here for your convenience, to help you out, or primarily to give you a leg up. The primary reason for cadetships are to make and save money for the particular company in question. The bi-product being you, the cadet pilot, the long term customer. They could get a pilot out of GA but why would they when you're prepared to pay them for not only training them but also the job! $80,000, is that what it takes to get a CPL with a Command Instrument rating these days, I think not!
The second main reason Is to assist airline management to lower the terms and conditions of line pilots which soon will include you! Something you will see down the line, say in 5 years when you wonder why you are feeling like your company can't give a flying F*%k about you and that you're unable to provide for your family.
REX wants you because you are cheap labour, because you will pay them, because you know no better. REX is using you so they can keep the terms and conditions down, below industry standard below a reasonable level given both the company's own profits and today's economy. So that REX need not look after staff and can just replace them when they decide enough is enough. Same deal at J*!
This is why people dislike cadetships in the industry. I have no doubt the people in these schemes think they are good, but many don't understand what they are getting into nor why the company's seem so happy to take their money. The ramifications on the industry long term and with regard to your future terms and conditions are why many dislike cadetships!
Lastly, don't go into the job thinking you will be a captain in a couple of years and that it's wrong when the company hires your mate who took the GA route over the top of you. Don't go in with an attitude and a mirror! Realise that once you get checked to line you will need years to learn and won't know it all on day 1! Be open to learning and you will earn the respect of your colleagues regardless of the fact that you are a cadet!
FMC.
As stated many times these schemes are not here for your convenience, to help you out, or primarily to give you a leg up. The primary reason for cadetships are to make and save money for the particular company in question. The bi-product being you, the cadet pilot, the long term customer. They could get a pilot out of GA but why would they when you're prepared to pay them for not only training them but also the job! $80,000, is that what it takes to get a CPL with a Command Instrument rating these days, I think not!
The second main reason Is to assist airline management to lower the terms and conditions of line pilots which soon will include you! Something you will see down the line, say in 5 years when you wonder why you are feeling like your company can't give a flying F*%k about you and that you're unable to provide for your family.
REX wants you because you are cheap labour, because you will pay them, because you know no better. REX is using you so they can keep the terms and conditions down, below industry standard below a reasonable level given both the company's own profits and today's economy. So that REX need not look after staff and can just replace them when they decide enough is enough. Same deal at J*!
This is why people dislike cadetships in the industry. I have no doubt the people in these schemes think they are good, but many don't understand what they are getting into nor why the company's seem so happy to take their money. The ramifications on the industry long term and with regard to your future terms and conditions are why many dislike cadetships!
Lastly, don't go into the job thinking you will be a captain in a couple of years and that it's wrong when the company hires your mate who took the GA route over the top of you. Don't go in with an attitude and a mirror! Realise that once you get checked to line you will need years to learn and won't know it all on day 1! Be open to learning and you will earn the respect of your colleagues regardless of the fact that you are a cadet!
FMC.
Last edited by Flying Meat Cleaver; 1st Apr 2011 at 07:20.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Canberra, ACT
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
$80,000, is that what it takes to get a CPL with a Command Instrument rating these days, I think not!
However, the 80k figure is actually quite reasonable considering a CPL at a suburban flying school will cost circa 55k and instrument rating 12-15k. The extra 10k buys you the job. I would not apply for such a program, but I dont blame the newbies for going these routes, the real people to blame here are the masterminds who orchestrate these schemes
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Aussssland
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had started doing the training in another flight school and the quote for PPL, CPL, Instrument rating and multi-engine endorsement is 85K.
I understand what everyone says these cadetships are, how dare a business want to make money. Sadly is at the expense of pilots, but at the moment I see it as a win win situation. They get their profits and I get my airline experience in a twin turbo-prop instead of a single engine piston.
Ozzie Mozzie, do you really think you will get a job in a conquest or a king air as your first job up north, if you do I'm glad for you, and please let us know that way I can forward the company you join to some fellow pilots. Secondly you only do your training in Wagga, then you get based in Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide or Townsville.
I understand what everyone says these cadetships are, how dare a business want to make money. Sadly is at the expense of pilots, but at the moment I see it as a win win situation. They get their profits and I get my airline experience in a twin turbo-prop instead of a single engine piston.
Ozzie Mozzie, do you really think you will get a job in a conquest or a king air as your first job up north, if you do I'm glad for you, and please let us know that way I can forward the company you join to some fellow pilots. Secondly you only do your training in Wagga, then you get based in Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide or Townsville.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I didn't say first job though. I don't claim to be an expert on such matters but i have heard of people getting into turbine twins 2-3 years after starting out. granted one wouldnt earn as much during that period but they are building command hours.
Unfortunately what may seem like a decent wage to you now will become less favourable down the road. Obviously your mind is made up on this matter and far be it from anyone else to critisise your decision but the accepted wisdom amounst the pilot group is that these cadetships are having a negative impact. To the point of getting the senate hearing involved. I do understand where you're coming from though, the promise of a job at the end of your training is s pretty enticing little carrot but at what cost does is come at both a personal and industry level?
The qantas cadetship seems to be the pick of the lot, i know without the industry placement the cadets will be out hunting jobs with all the other fresh cpls but at least they have a foot in the door with qantas when (if?) they start hiring again. And qantas isnt making a profit on them either (probably why its been halted but thats another discussion).
Unfortunately what may seem like a decent wage to you now will become less favourable down the road. Obviously your mind is made up on this matter and far be it from anyone else to critisise your decision but the accepted wisdom amounst the pilot group is that these cadetships are having a negative impact. To the point of getting the senate hearing involved. I do understand where you're coming from though, the promise of a job at the end of your training is s pretty enticing little carrot but at what cost does is come at both a personal and industry level?
The qantas cadetship seems to be the pick of the lot, i know without the industry placement the cadets will be out hunting jobs with all the other fresh cpls but at least they have a foot in the door with qantas when (if?) they start hiring again. And qantas isnt making a profit on them either (probably why its been halted but thats another discussion).
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 767
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
REX taking in 'Advanced' Cadets at Wagga Wagga?
Heard a whisper today that although not advertised REX are taking in CPL/MECIR qualified cadets into Wagga Wagga. I assume these are uncontaminated ones.
I wonder whether this is to manage the risk posed by the possibility that the Senate Inquiry may raise minimum hours for piloting an RPT multi crew aircraft.
Together with the senators making it clear that they are aware of the restrictions in NZ (and Singapore) this is perhaps an indication that at least some of the airlines are thinking that the writing is on the wall as far as ab-initio cadetships are concerned.
.......and now we wait
The Kelpie
I wonder whether this is to manage the risk posed by the possibility that the Senate Inquiry may raise minimum hours for piloting an RPT multi crew aircraft.
Together with the senators making it clear that they are aware of the restrictions in NZ (and Singapore) this is perhaps an indication that at least some of the airlines are thinking that the writing is on the wall as far as ab-initio cadetships are concerned.
.......and now we wait
The Kelpie
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wonder whether this is to manage the risk posed by the possibility that the Senate Inquiry may raise minimum hours for piloting an RPT multi crew aircraft.
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 767
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The 1500 hours is the figure in the US.
There is nothing to prevent the Senators acknowledging the safety issues by raising minimum experience by a lesser figure.
The Kelpie
There is nothing to prevent the Senators acknowledging the safety issues by raising minimum experience by a lesser figure.
The Kelpie
I'm not sure either what REX are thinking with this one. The experience level of these 2 are, One has a CPL with an expired IR, and some general flying experience, and the other has a CPL (no instrument Rating) also with a small amount of general flying experience. What makes it even more puzzleing is that they are qualified REX Ops Controllers, people that are not easily replaced!
Maybe as Kelpie said, REX are looking at Bare CPLs with a minimum number of hours (500 perhaps) in an effort to mitigate any future legislative changes, or perhaps just to streamline the training and speed up the process. It's safe to say these guys do not meet the min general entry criteria, although REX have changed that several times over the last few years as well!
For those interested the deal is.... 9 week live in course, not entirely sure of the structure but if you take note of past rhetoric, probably instruction on doing things the "REX way", then REX induction, SAAB groundschool (some or all of which may be included in the 9 weeks, I honestly don't know), then SAAB endorsement and line training.
Cost has been reported as $32K and the cost of the SAAB endorsement is per the General entry obligation of 2 year $15K bond. So I guess if you went out, got your CPL and possibly Command Instrument rating, paid the additional $32K you could theoretically find yourself in the RHS of the SAAB in as little as 3-4 months for about the same cost as the Cadetship, or even a little less?
As I said though, I'm not sure what REX are thinking with this one, it may just be a one-off. Not a bad opportunity for the 2 guys concerned, just hope it works out for them.
Maybe as Kelpie said, REX are looking at Bare CPLs with a minimum number of hours (500 perhaps) in an effort to mitigate any future legislative changes, or perhaps just to streamline the training and speed up the process. It's safe to say these guys do not meet the min general entry criteria, although REX have changed that several times over the last few years as well!
For those interested the deal is.... 9 week live in course, not entirely sure of the structure but if you take note of past rhetoric, probably instruction on doing things the "REX way", then REX induction, SAAB groundschool (some or all of which may be included in the 9 weeks, I honestly don't know), then SAAB endorsement and line training.
Cost has been reported as $32K and the cost of the SAAB endorsement is per the General entry obligation of 2 year $15K bond. So I guess if you went out, got your CPL and possibly Command Instrument rating, paid the additional $32K you could theoretically find yourself in the RHS of the SAAB in as little as 3-4 months for about the same cost as the Cadetship, or even a little less?
As I said though, I'm not sure what REX are thinking with this one, it may just be a one-off. Not a bad opportunity for the 2 guys concerned, just hope it works out for them.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is clearly a smoke screen to the senate committee. "We tried to get more experienced candidates but there are none out there ! please don't put up the minimum requirements senators !" The Rex story gets even better , I hear that some of the candidates of the last round of interviews were called in to do a Math and Physic,s HSC exam on short notice , apparently only 4 did the exam out of 15 candidates. They all apparently missed out. The only thing they had in common is they have all got year 12 passed in maths and physic,s at school ( Rex must have a higher education standard (requirement) than the board of studies in N.S.W) and a few candidates Fathers are major Airline check Captains. They must be looking for academics , not aviators. If these rumours are true , Rex is heading down the wrong path.
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Aussssland
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I kow 10 of the last batch of interviews, myself included and we didn't have to do any math or physics exams. Just wombat, interview with pilots, flight screen and interview with management team. The same way they have done it since they started.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apparently these guys did all the same tests and interviews and were then called to do these exams. I hope they weren't contaminated at school ! Must be a well oiled interview process when only a few have to do the exam , a bit of discrimination I think !
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Everywhere
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi
I'm an European JAA pilot with +1800 TT and more tan 500 on SAAB340. last week I received this email from Sandy Reilly from REX recruitment office:
Dear XXX,
We have been supplied with your contact details as per the registration you lodged via the Pilot Link on the Saab Aircraft leasing website.
We would be interested in obtaining some more information about your qualifications.
If you are interested we request you please supply (via return email) copies of the following:
CV/Resume
Passport
Licence
Medical
Date you last flew a Saab
If you have any further queries please feel free to contact me.
Thank you & Regards,
Sandy Reilly
Flight Operations Support & Recruitment Officer
They already know that I live in Europe and I don't have Australian licence, I've been trying to search for info regarding REX and pilot situation in Australia. If I would have a chance to move to Australia I would do it without any doubt about it, but..., Can anyone bring me some light about pilot market situation? Does Australia have a pilot shortage?
Thanks in advance
Cheers.
I'm an European JAA pilot with +1800 TT and more tan 500 on SAAB340. last week I received this email from Sandy Reilly from REX recruitment office:
Dear XXX,
We have been supplied with your contact details as per the registration you lodged via the Pilot Link on the Saab Aircraft leasing website.
We would be interested in obtaining some more information about your qualifications.
If you are interested we request you please supply (via return email) copies of the following:
CV/Resume
Passport
Licence
Medical
Date you last flew a Saab
If you have any further queries please feel free to contact me.
Thank you & Regards,
Sandy Reilly
Flight Operations Support & Recruitment Officer
They already know that I live in Europe and I don't have Australian licence, I've been trying to search for info regarding REX and pilot situation in Australia. If I would have a chance to move to Australia I would do it without any doubt about it, but..., Can anyone bring me some light about pilot market situation? Does Australia have a pilot shortage?
Thanks in advance
Cheers.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Australia
Age: 62
Posts: 252
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CHECHE!
No there is no pilot shortage. There is a shortage of pilots that will accept the conditions offered by some companies.
There are enough threads on this site o educate yourself on the current industrial situation.
No there is no pilot shortage. There is a shortage of pilots that will accept the conditions offered by some companies.
There are enough threads on this site o educate yourself on the current industrial situation.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Here and there
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting........ Any of the current crop of "loving it" respondents know the story here?
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Hot'n'spicy
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hmmm....
WATS 2011: Australia's Rex cuts GA pilot pipeline
By John Croft
Australia's Regional Express Airlines no longer expects to obtain pilots from the general aviation community, a pipeline that as of two years ago had supplied the airline with most of its pilot recruits.
"We don't include general aviation entry in our forecasting [of pilot recruits] any more," says Chris Hine, Rex's chief operating officer and director.
The cut off comes as Rex has achieved success in a relatively new in-house pilot cadet programme, a service he says the airline is now marketing as a third-party ab initio training source to other airlines.
Rex before 2008 typically had a 15% pilot turnover rate per year, with a resupply of new pilots primarily coming from the ranks of aspiring general aviation (GA) pilots. Rex is Australia's largest regional airline, with 51 Saab 340 turboprops flying to 31 regional destinations. The airline has approximately 280 pilots and 150 flight attendants located at nine bases in its network.
A booming airline market in the 2007 timeframe saw the attrition jump to 50%, with major airlines hiring away the pilots. "Historically we sourced pilots from GA," says Hine, speaking at the World Aviation Training conference in Orlando, Florida on 20 April, "but we couldn't find enough to qualify or to meet our standards. We were lucky to hire 50% of the candidates we met."
Rather than be subject to the "randomness in the cycle", Rex decide to open an in-house cadet programme to "future-proof" the carrier and to ensure a supply of "suitable pilots", says Hine. The new business is called the Australian airline pilot academy.
The academy is currently teaching its eight and ninth student class, each of which takes 32 weeks in total and results in private and commercial pilot licenses and a multi-engine rating for those who complete the programme and begin flying with Rex. Loans are provided, and graduates who remain at the airline for six years have their interest rate halved; those that stay seven years have their debt forgiven.
In addition to comprehensive pre-acceptance screening, the program tailors the training environment so that graduates will succeed at Rex. "We're not teaching private pilots; we're not teaching commercial pilots; we know where [students] are going," says Hine. "We regularly and formally screen out anyone who isn't going to make it fairly early on."
Proof of the success of the project comes from benchmarking that revealed that two years after instituting the program in 2008, cadets were scoring slightly higher than direct entry recruits, which Rex continues to accept when applicants have the desired skills.
To date, 106 cadets have been inducted into the programme, 82 of whom have graduated and 58 of whom are now line-checked to operate the Saabs, says Hine.
By John Croft
Australia's Regional Express Airlines no longer expects to obtain pilots from the general aviation community, a pipeline that as of two years ago had supplied the airline with most of its pilot recruits.
"We don't include general aviation entry in our forecasting [of pilot recruits] any more," says Chris Hine, Rex's chief operating officer and director.
The cut off comes as Rex has achieved success in a relatively new in-house pilot cadet programme, a service he says the airline is now marketing as a third-party ab initio training source to other airlines.
Rex before 2008 typically had a 15% pilot turnover rate per year, with a resupply of new pilots primarily coming from the ranks of aspiring general aviation (GA) pilots. Rex is Australia's largest regional airline, with 51 Saab 340 turboprops flying to 31 regional destinations. The airline has approximately 280 pilots and 150 flight attendants located at nine bases in its network.
A booming airline market in the 2007 timeframe saw the attrition jump to 50%, with major airlines hiring away the pilots. "Historically we sourced pilots from GA," says Hine, speaking at the World Aviation Training conference in Orlando, Florida on 20 April, "but we couldn't find enough to qualify or to meet our standards. We were lucky to hire 50% of the candidates we met."
Rather than be subject to the "randomness in the cycle", Rex decide to open an in-house cadet programme to "future-proof" the carrier and to ensure a supply of "suitable pilots", says Hine. The new business is called the Australian airline pilot academy.
The academy is currently teaching its eight and ninth student class, each of which takes 32 weeks in total and results in private and commercial pilot licenses and a multi-engine rating for those who complete the programme and begin flying with Rex. Loans are provided, and graduates who remain at the airline for six years have their interest rate halved; those that stay seven years have their debt forgiven.
In addition to comprehensive pre-acceptance screening, the program tailors the training environment so that graduates will succeed at Rex. "We're not teaching private pilots; we're not teaching commercial pilots; we know where [students] are going," says Hine. "We regularly and formally screen out anyone who isn't going to make it fairly early on."
Proof of the success of the project comes from benchmarking that revealed that two years after instituting the program in 2008, cadets were scoring slightly higher than direct entry recruits, which Rex continues to accept when applicants have the desired skills.
To date, 106 cadets have been inducted into the programme, 82 of whom have graduated and 58 of whom are now line-checked to operate the Saabs, says Hine.