Ra Aus Not Goming To A Cta Near You
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mel-burn
Posts: 4,875
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No whinging? Looks like whinging to me. Like the guy who thinks his sat phone is better than a plb!!!!!
http://www.r. ecreationalflying.org/forum/general-discussion/44016-raa-cta-3.html
http://www.r. ecreationalflying.org/forum/general-discussion/44016-raa-cta-3.html
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Melbourne,Vic,Australia
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Like the guy who thinks his sat phone is better than a plb!!!!!
http://www.r. ecreationalflying.org/forum/general-discussion/44016-raa-cta-3.html
Join Date: May 2009
Location: In a caravan
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whilst I don't like to promote a site that is managed by such one-sided self-promoting individuals, look more closely as there are now 4 seperate threads on there with whinging about poor behaviour and the CTA endorsement denial being the end of the world and half of them saying that they never wanted it in the first place and how the management of the organisation are heading them more and more towards GA which they didn't want in the first place.
can I add missiles to my meat bomber?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: au
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"there are now 4 seperate threads on there with whinging about poor behaviour and the CTA endorsement denial being the end of the world and half of them saying that they never wanted it in the first place and how the management of the organisation are heading them more and more towards GA which they didn't want in the first place."
I still think that CTA transit should be allowed provided the pilot is trained properly. It's not rocket science.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But can someone tell me, for the sake of this arguement, how you can do your GFPT at say, Coffs Harbour, solo circuits and all, with a Student Pilot Licence? (medical perhaps).
Is GAAP a Control Zone in this case? It has a control tower.
I take it that GFPT to PPL NAV's are also acceptable transitting into or through CTR?
When are you actually endorsed to fly in CTR?
Is GAAP a Control Zone in this case? It has a control tower.
I take it that GFPT to PPL NAV's are also acceptable transitting into or through CTR?
When are you actually endorsed to fly in CTR?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in the classroom of life
Age: 55
Posts: 6,864
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
superdimona
Have a read of the rest of the thread........the is no barrier to entry now that would have been less with the changes, so no disadvantage in that respect. The big downside would have been for schools and the organisation, they have been saved a burden. One school owner has confirmed this to me and plenty of members. Not one complaint so far! 
Good decision, albeit a serendipity
Big words for Jaba there!
J
I still think that CTA transit should be allowed provided the pilot is trained properly. It's not rocket science.
Good decision, albeit a serendipity
Big words for Jaba there!
J
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mel-burn
Posts: 4,875
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I argue that there is little difference with the end result.
To get the "endorsement" under the old system, one would have to have got their PPL which would have entailed getting a medical, passing the exam, plus a nav or two into controlled airspace, then the flight test.
Under the proposed system the pilot would have had to get a medical, do a few navs into CTA and sit the test to obtain the endorsement.
If RAA training is as far advanced as those on here and other forums endeavour to lead the GA fraternity to believe, the difference at best might be a few hours and a little bit of extra study.
Perhaps up to $1,000 extra considering the flight time is only slightly more expensive and you've got a lifetime ticket to drive the big stuff if you really want to go somewhere with your Mrs and kids.
Have a look at this, it is a rough guide that shows how it's not that hard after all:
http://www.rvac.com.au/files/flighttrainningstepsv3.pdf
The only error I can see is that the PPL exam should be over to the right hand side to the right of the dotted line coming down from RA Cross Country Endorsement.
To get the "endorsement" under the old system, one would have to have got their PPL which would have entailed getting a medical, passing the exam, plus a nav or two into controlled airspace, then the flight test.
Under the proposed system the pilot would have had to get a medical, do a few navs into CTA and sit the test to obtain the endorsement.
If RAA training is as far advanced as those on here and other forums endeavour to lead the GA fraternity to believe, the difference at best might be a few hours and a little bit of extra study.
Perhaps up to $1,000 extra considering the flight time is only slightly more expensive and you've got a lifetime ticket to drive the big stuff if you really want to go somewhere with your Mrs and kids.
Have a look at this, it is a rough guide that shows how it's not that hard after all:
http://www.rvac.com.au/files/flighttrainningstepsv3.pdf
The only error I can see is that the PPL exam should be over to the right hand side to the right of the dotted line coming down from RA Cross Country Endorsement.
VH-XXX
My sentiments exactly.
If RAAus is so clever and so advanced and oh-so-much better than GA, what would be hard about the conversion?
Either:
1/. Medicals; (fair enough) or
2/. GA looks menacing and scary (an image problem GA would do well to remedy); or
3/. RAAus is run by private pilots and PPL wannabes who want to be able to achieve the 'big' prize with less work.
...or possibly varying combinations of all three.
With respect to
...because such students have a Flight Radio Telephone Operator's Licence or are working under a CASA instrument permitting RAAus training in that specific airspace.
If RAAus is so clever and so advanced and oh-so-much better than GA, what would be hard about the conversion?
Either:
1/. Medicals; (fair enough) or
2/. GA looks menacing and scary (an image problem GA would do well to remedy); or
3/. RAAus is run by private pilots and PPL wannabes who want to be able to achieve the 'big' prize with less work.
...or possibly varying combinations of all three.
With respect to
how you can do your GFPT at say, Coffs Harbour, solo circuits and all, with a Student Pilot Licence?
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 632
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All trumped by cirrus taking off into thunderstorm though.
(And might have taken off towards a thunderstorm, but I doubt he actually flew into it!)To get back on topic, that is also the kind of school that cranks out very qualified pilots that with CTA training would no doubt put weekend GA pilots trained in the country to shame with their knowledge and skills when it comes to transitting Melbourne airspace. But I guess we won't know for now!
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mel-burn
Posts: 4,875
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Baswell also signed up on that other site and offered his advice as to how the pilot of the Cirrus was an ex airline pilot with millions of hours etc etc etc however from memory he wasn't here so didn't see what happened.
Had Baswell signed up with a location other than Adelaide he would be more believable, however he is obviously a friend of the pilot or knows him well thus his desire to try and defend his actions even though he wasn't there.
Just because you might have thousands of hours, doesn't mean that you don't use poor judgement on occasions!
I also wonder how some school in Adelaide is pumping out these brilliant raa pilots that are able to transit Melbourne's hugely complex airspace given that they would be 4+ hours flight from there and have never flown in it
If you are going to post, don't post fluff
WallsofChina, if my memory serves me correctly, there was an argument between all of the thousands of visitors to Narromine that watched a Cirrus SR22 take off into a Thunderstorm versus some guy who claims to know the pilot, who suggested that the pilot would never have done that.
Seems to me that the argument was indeed cleared up!
Had Baswell signed up with a location other than Adelaide he would be more believable, however he is obviously a friend of the pilot or knows him well thus his desire to try and defend his actions even though he wasn't there.
Just because you might have thousands of hours, doesn't mean that you don't use poor judgement on occasions!
I also wonder how some school in Adelaide is pumping out these brilliant raa pilots that are able to transit Melbourne's hugely complex airspace given that they would be 4+ hours flight from there and have never flown in it
If you are going to post, don't post fluff
WallsofChina, if my memory serves me correctly, there was an argument between all of the thousands of visitors to Narromine that watched a Cirrus SR22 take off into a Thunderstorm versus some guy who claims to know the pilot, who suggested that the pilot would never have done that.
Seems to me that the argument was indeed cleared up!
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 632
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LOL, you seem to know me well! I never discussed this on "the other site". The first I heard of it was from someone at a fly-in, who was there and does know the guy closely. I have never spoken to him myself. I only know him by reputation and flying with some of the people his school has trained.
You completely missed my point about the melbourne reference. Say someone learns to fly out in the sticks, hours away from *any* CTA, but they have a PPL and can use CTA so one day after years hopping between their paddock and town they decide to fly to Melbourne. Who do you think will be better equiped to handle it, the PPL (a real pilot!) or the RA+CTA guy who has been flying the Adelaide CTA every weekend for a long time?
How well equiped you are to deal with the situation has nothing to do with whether you have a PPL or RA cert, and everything with training and experience. Not to mention a great deal of RAA flyers, especially near CTAs that would be interested in gaining the endorsement tend to train at schools that do both RA and GA, trained by the exact same instructors using the same sylabus.
You completely missed my point about the melbourne reference. Say someone learns to fly out in the sticks, hours away from *any* CTA, but they have a PPL and can use CTA so one day after years hopping between their paddock and town they decide to fly to Melbourne. Who do you think will be better equiped to handle it, the PPL (a real pilot!) or the RA+CTA guy who has been flying the Adelaide CTA every weekend for a long time?
How well equiped you are to deal with the situation has nothing to do with whether you have a PPL or RA cert, and everything with training and experience. Not to mention a great deal of RAA flyers, especially near CTAs that would be interested in gaining the endorsement tend to train at schools that do both RA and GA, trained by the exact same instructors using the same sylabus.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know why anyone is complaining about this.
Nothing has been lost because they never had it in the first place.
Why do so many RAA pilots think that a PPL is the holy grail I wonder? It's not that hard after all.
It doesn't matter how good your flying school is or isn't and how close it is to CTA or not, the fact remains that you require a PPL to access it.
As for those that began their training in RAA on the premise that CTA would be coming soon, I don't pity you either because you can still do your PPL as the hours still count, so nothing wasted and you'll end up a better pilot in the end anyway.
Nothing has been lost because they never had it in the first place.
Why do so many RAA pilots think that a PPL is the holy grail I wonder? It's not that hard after all.
It doesn't matter how good your flying school is or isn't and how close it is to CTA or not, the fact remains that you require a PPL to access it.
As for those that began their training in RAA on the premise that CTA would be coming soon, I don't pity you either because you can still do your PPL as the hours still count, so nothing wasted and you'll end up a better pilot in the end anyway.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 632
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
QNH: I think it is a misconception that RA flyers do not get their PPL because they think it is hard. It has to do with cost.
It costs more to gain and maintain a PPL, which seems pointless if all you do is fly RAA aircraft! Paying annual fees to two arganisations, for instance. BFR with a PE in a hired VH plane is more expensive than with an RAA CFI in your own plane, etc. (remember: 1 in 3 RAA flyers own their aircraft!)
As PPLs, you can ask why not just get your PPL? Other than the answer given above, you can look at the question from an RAA pilot: why can non-PPL gliders go into CTA but somehow we can't be trusted?
As for me: I do fly into CTA using the special exemption we have here at Parafield. The main reason I would like to see the CTA endorsement is that we might see a more active RAA scene here. After all, one of the best things about flying is hanging out with similar minded friendly folks!
It costs more to gain and maintain a PPL, which seems pointless if all you do is fly RAA aircraft! Paying annual fees to two arganisations, for instance. BFR with a PE in a hired VH plane is more expensive than with an RAA CFI in your own plane, etc. (remember: 1 in 3 RAA flyers own their aircraft!)
As PPLs, you can ask why not just get your PPL? Other than the answer given above, you can look at the question from an RAA pilot: why can non-PPL gliders go into CTA but somehow we can't be trusted?
As for me: I do fly into CTA using the special exemption we have here at Parafield. The main reason I would like to see the CTA endorsement is that we might see a more active RAA scene here. After all, one of the best things about flying is hanging out with similar minded friendly folks!
When you live....
PPL CTA
To the RAA crew who may not be aware, a PPL on it's own doesn't permit it's owner to fly in CTA - you must get PPL CTA (Radar) and/or PPL CTA (non-radar) on your license. Even if you never fly in CTA, your BFR is supposed to refresh your memory of procedures by simulating CTA procedures.
There is a reason why CASA Ops cost more money - the BFR makes sure you're still ok.
UTR
There is a reason why CASA Ops cost more money - the BFR makes sure you're still ok.
UTR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in the classroom of life
Age: 55
Posts: 6,864
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
RAA have a BFR also.
Baswell
The reality is only a small minority of RAA members wanted it and the cost and paperwork for RAA and the schools would not be worth it. So while you may find it handy, about 4750 of your RAA fellow members would be funding yours and a few others privilege.
The alternative is the GA CASA PPL and CTA endo, which is in my opinion not going to cost you much more at all, and without the costs slugged to the rest of the members.
For example.....why should MY RAAus membership go up just to cover the cost for a privilege I already have!!
End of arguement I think! CASA no doubt made the decission for some other reason, and who knows if it was really a good one, but its a good stroke of luck I think.
J
Baswell
The reality is only a small minority of RAA members wanted it and the cost and paperwork for RAA and the schools would not be worth it. So while you may find it handy, about 4750 of your RAA fellow members would be funding yours and a few others privilege.
The alternative is the GA CASA PPL and CTA endo, which is in my opinion not going to cost you much more at all, and without the costs slugged to the rest of the members.
For example.....why should MY RAAus membership go up just to cover the cost for a privilege I already have!!
End of arguement I think! CASA no doubt made the decission for some other reason, and who knows if it was really a good one, but its a good stroke of luck I think.
J
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dans un cercle dont le centre est eveywhere et circumfernce n'est nulle part
Posts: 2,606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you must get PPL CTA (Radar) and/or PPL CTA (non-radar) on your license
There is a reason why CASA Ops cost more money
Australian aviation "elitism" demonstrated by it's worst.
ing "proceedural experts" who probably lack basic "stick and rudder" ability and their dog bites them because they are stipid 'ers.Jabawocky- you are pretty close to the money.
Uh oh.... here comes another RAA/GA p!ssing contest
I reckon Jaba has a valid point. It is most likely the minority of RAA members that actually want CTA priveliges, and at the end of the day those guys should just go and get a PPL anyway. We all know that the RAA hours count towards a PPL, so why not just go out and do it. Sure it might cost you more money, but it also will expand your knowledge/skills and open up more doors to aircraft options.
And finally, for the RAA guys who keep bagging out how expensive GA is then why would they want to fly into CTA anyway? When you think about the landing fees, parking fees and enroute charges etc at controlled aerodromes compared to most airfields that are OCTA, they are significantly higher. When your average RAA pilot sees this they would probably baulk at the cost of operating into CTA.
It's not that bad flying OCTA anyway. You can get to most places in oz OCTA, which is what the RAA guys have been doing since day one
Just my thoughts anyway.
I reckon Jaba has a valid point. It is most likely the minority of RAA members that actually want CTA priveliges, and at the end of the day those guys should just go and get a PPL anyway. We all know that the RAA hours count towards a PPL, so why not just go out and do it. Sure it might cost you more money, but it also will expand your knowledge/skills and open up more doors to aircraft options.
And finally, for the RAA guys who keep bagging out how expensive GA is then why would they want to fly into CTA anyway? When you think about the landing fees, parking fees and enroute charges etc at controlled aerodromes compared to most airfields that are OCTA, they are significantly higher. When your average RAA pilot sees this they would probably baulk at the cost of operating into CTA.
It's not that bad flying OCTA anyway. You can get to most places in oz OCTA, which is what the RAA guys have been doing since day one
Just my thoughts anyway.