Ra Aus Not Goming To A Cta Near You
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Ra Aus Not Coming To A Cta Near You
Well it seems the RAAus will not be getting the CTA endorsement deal.
So back to what I have posted many times before. If you want CTA, go get the medical, as you would have had to do anyway, and do your PPL, extra training just as you would have had to do anyway.
And............ the bonus! You will not be clogging up the RAAus system with more work and you (the minority of RAAus members) who want the CTA endo will not drive costs up through the roof for all your fellow members. It really is a blessing in disguise. Some of you will spit chips, but I see only positives from this.
I think this is a Win / Win.
At last a CASA boss with Brains and some Common Sense to go with it.
PS : the other bonus is if you do the PPL and CTA training, you will open up a whole heap of extra possibilities of aircraft hire and extra pax possibilities for the odd time you may want to use it.
So back to what I have posted many times before. If you want CTA, go get the medical, as you would have had to do anyway, and do your PPL, extra training just as you would have had to do anyway.
And............ the bonus! You will not be clogging up the RAAus system with more work and you (the minority of RAAus members) who want the CTA endo will not drive costs up through the roof for all your fellow members. It really is a blessing in disguise. Some of you will spit chips, but I see only positives from this.
I think this is a Win / Win.
At last a CASA boss with Brains and some Common Sense to go with it.
PS : the other bonus is if you do the PPL and CTA training, you will open up a whole heap of extra possibilities of aircraft hire and extra pax possibilities for the odd time you may want to use it.
Last edited by Jabawocky; 30th Jul 2009 at 08:47.
Jaba, this thread would be better posted in that other site that we are all banned from, rather than here, but I have no idea how you're gonna do that. 
Are there likely to be many RAA only pilots hanging about here?
Dr
Are there likely to be many RAA only pilots hanging about here?
Dr
I was speaking recently to one of those nice people from CASA and he said that as long as John McCormick is running the show, RAA into CTA just isn't going to happen. Ever!
They stood a chance of it happening with Bruce Byron, but McCormick is evidently dead against it.
They stood a chance of it happening with Bruce Byron, but McCormick is evidently dead against it.
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What If:
Firstly: Open to constructive criticism, haven't done all that much CTA work just yet, and no flames, thankyou.
I agree with the RAA-not-in-CTA movement personally, but looking from the other side, speaking of the issue of RAA aircraft having to fly over tiger country to get from A-B OCTA, what if they were permitted limited CTA privileges unless required to do otherwise by an Air Traffic Controller, for example, being 'endorsed' to transit class C (and D?) airspace, but not land or do anything else, except being instructed on what to do by the ATC?
(though this could lead to some "I didn't know we couldn't LAND here" situations)
Pyro
I agree with the RAA-not-in-CTA movement personally, but looking from the other side, speaking of the issue of RAA aircraft having to fly over tiger country to get from A-B OCTA, what if they were permitted limited CTA privileges unless required to do otherwise by an Air Traffic Controller, for example, being 'endorsed' to transit class C (and D?) airspace, but not land or do anything else, except being instructed on what to do by the ATC?
(though this could lead to some "I didn't know we couldn't LAND here" situations)
Pyro
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Pyro dear chap, a few thoughts for your question,
Brisbane CTA = Tiger Country
Sydney CTA = Tiger Country
Melbourne CTA = Tiger Country
Adelaide......
....who goes there
Perth.....Don't think Tigers are that silly, but its the same kind of built up area, so Tiger County
Darwhine....Tinpis would shoot em....so its Tiger Country
now lets look at the regionals......ummmm only excuse I can think of is Canberra, and lets face it we are talking Recreational Aviation Aust....so why would you want to go there. The rest say like Cairns and Townsville the country surrounding is actually more friendly than through the CTA.
Most other towers like Alice or Launy or Tindal even will let you in if you ask nicely as they know they are remote and the only fuel sources around, so there are some common sense applications.
Let me introduce you to some of the "Old Fart Flying Club" folk some of whom had Casa licences and are just not interested any more, you will get the idea then. Those that really need it can go do the PPL and Medical and it will cost them about the same anyway. I think it was an ego thing, and a path to trouble!
John McCormick has really done the RAA members a big favour.
J
PS: If you took a survey of the folk who would have actually put their money where their mouth was and done the training.....I bet it would be very small. So best they use the existing path, with added benefits!
Brisbane CTA = Tiger Country
Sydney CTA = Tiger Country
Melbourne CTA = Tiger Country
Adelaide......
....who goes therePerth.....Don't think Tigers are that silly, but its the same kind of built up area, so Tiger County
Darwhine....Tinpis would shoot em....so its Tiger Country
now lets look at the regionals......ummmm only excuse I can think of is Canberra, and lets face it we are talking Recreational Aviation Aust....so why would you want to go there
. The rest say like Cairns and Townsville the country surrounding is actually more friendly than through the CTA.Most other towers like Alice or Launy or Tindal even will let you in if you ask nicely as they know they are remote and the only fuel sources around, so there are some common sense applications.
Let me introduce you to some of the "Old Fart Flying Club" folk some of whom had Casa licences and are just not interested any more, you will get the idea then. Those that really need it can go do the PPL and Medical and it will cost them about the same anyway. I think it was an ego thing, and a path to trouble!
John McCormick has really done the RAA members a big favour.
J
PS: If you took a survey of the folk who would have actually put their money where their mouth was and done the training.....I bet it would be very small. So best they use the existing path, with added benefits!
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JABA
Where you getting your info - I'd like to read up on it some. TKS.
I recall a friends 'cross-country endorsement' in his Jabiru - one lap around Port Phillip bay - WITH GPS ASSISTANCE!
Don't forget the RAAus increased weight limit bleating
- so they can all carry "extra safety equipment" (for when they fly over tiger country in CTA?) Yeah??? "Equipment" such as......... what exactly...........? Parachutes? Liferafts? Emergency escape pods? Thermal underwear? What?
Where you getting your info - I'd like to read up on it some. TKS.
I recall a friends 'cross-country endorsement' in his Jabiru - one lap around Port Phillip bay - WITH GPS ASSISTANCE!
Don't forget the RAAus increased weight limit bleating
- so they can all carry "extra safety equipment" (for when they fly over tiger country in CTA?) Yeah??? "Equipment" such as......... what exactly...........? Parachutes? Liferafts? Emergency escape pods? Thermal underwear? What?
Chu Mia Huang......worse than that....ME!
Ever done a W&B on a 230? or a 170? Two half decent sized aussie guys and you are going NOWHERE! (legally)
540kg limit is a joke when you look at how heavy these little buggers are EWs at around 300kg or more leaves very little for two people and fuel. You have to built like a bludy greyhound to utilise one.
Ever done a W&B on a 230? or a 170? Two half decent sized aussie guys and you are going NOWHERE! (legally)
540kg limit is a joke when you look at how heavy these little buggers are EWs at around 300kg or more leaves very little for two people and fuel. You have to built like a bludy greyhound to utilise one.
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It doesn't bother me either way because I don't need fly GA into CTA.
But can someone tell me, for the sake of this arguement, how you can do your GFPT at say, Coffs Harbour, solo circuits and all, with a Student Pilot Licence? (medical perhaps).
Is GAAP a Control Zone in this case? It has a control tower.
I take it that GFPT to PPL NAV's are also acceptable transitting into or through CTR?
When are you actually endorsed to fly in CTR?
Therefor is it the aircraft or the pilot that is not allowed into the CTR?
If you have a class 2 medical and a fly a LSA certified aircraft, (600 KG), and you are endorsed to fly in CTA (whether as a PPL lapsed, current, or other), and you have a RA-Aus certificate to fly the LSA aircraft, can you transit through a CTR?
If it is the aircraft that is the issue, does this include "limited" and
"experimental" aircraft? Does it include LSA?
Further there are many many PPL's out there with a OCTA licence only because they either had no need or couldn't hack the standards to fly therein.
More information would be appreciated Jaba.
But can someone tell me, for the sake of this arguement, how you can do your GFPT at say, Coffs Harbour, solo circuits and all, with a Student Pilot Licence? (medical perhaps).
Is GAAP a Control Zone in this case? It has a control tower.
I take it that GFPT to PPL NAV's are also acceptable transitting into or through CTR?
When are you actually endorsed to fly in CTR?
Therefor is it the aircraft or the pilot that is not allowed into the CTR?
If you have a class 2 medical and a fly a LSA certified aircraft, (600 KG), and you are endorsed to fly in CTA (whether as a PPL lapsed, current, or other), and you have a RA-Aus certificate to fly the LSA aircraft, can you transit through a CTR?
If it is the aircraft that is the issue, does this include "limited" and
"experimental" aircraft? Does it include LSA?
Further there are many many PPL's out there with a OCTA licence only because they either had no need or couldn't hack the standards to fly therein.
More information would be appreciated Jaba.
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I can assist with your questions Frank as best as I can.
When you have a PPL with CTA on it. Don't think of GAAP as CTA with regard to your GFPT as there are dispensations etc. Think of it this way, if you have your GFPT and fly out of Bankstown GAAP, you can't just take off in Moorabbin GAAP without approval from instructor etc. It's valid for the GAAP in which you are learning.
It is the pilot that is not allowed into CTA in terms of RAA, not the aircraft.
Yes. As long as you meet the criteria for 95.55 under the section of CTA entry.
The aircraft is not the issue. Many RAA aircraft with approved engines and appropriate equipment can utilise CTA, along with experimental. For GAAP, it's an approved engine and radio for example and logically for CTA Class C it's a transponder on top of that. It's in CAO95.55.
Yes that's right and they can't fly RAA aircraft into CTA either.
When are you actually endorsed to fly in CTR?
Therefore is it the aircraft or the pilot that is not allowed into the CTR?
If you have a class 2 medical and a fly a LSA certified aircraft, (600 KG), and you are endorsed to fly in CTA (whether as a PPL lapsed, current, or other), and you have a RA-Aus certificate to fly the LSA aircraft, can you transit through a CTR?
If it is the aircraft that is the issue, does this include "limited" and
"experimental" aircraft? Does it include LSA?
"experimental" aircraft? Does it include LSA?
Further there are many many PPL's out there with a OCTA licence only because they either had no need or couldn't hack the standards to fly therein.
Last edited by VH-XXX; 30th Jul 2009 at 23:21.
Francis, for your information-
If you are PPL then to get RAA licence you just pays your licence and do 5hrs conversion of which 3hrs can be solo....that easy!
The plane can fly in cta provided it has an approved engine, radio and transponder and a PPL licenced PF doing the stearing.
When GAAPs go CTAF after hours and there is daylight you can fly in on RAA licence.
If the PPL licence is lapsed then you have to do the whole RAA licence to get to the same level.
If your medical has been revoked then no RAA licence without passing that medical. If PPL lapsed and no revoked medical then OK on drivers licence.
Weight breaks are 540kg if you roll your own and 600kg for factory rolled LSA. Thats about my limit of knowledge on RAA rules. plenty of info on the RAA site if you really want to dig.
As for GFPT? You can do your solo NAV training out of a ClassC aerodrome like EN if you wish. My surprise was finishing my licence at EN after many years break on a very lapsed RPPL and found it quite refreshing to fly solo from EN down to PK for some circuits. Almost as much experience as my NAV3, Class C airspace MBZ and Tower aerodrome in one trip! Fly in that environment all the time and the ATO has a hard time trapping you on procedures
If you are PPL then to get RAA licence you just pays your licence and do 5hrs conversion of which 3hrs can be solo....that easy!
The plane can fly in cta provided it has an approved engine, radio and transponder and a PPL licenced PF doing the stearing.
When GAAPs go CTAF after hours and there is daylight you can fly in on RAA licence.
If the PPL licence is lapsed then you have to do the whole RAA licence to get to the same level.
If your medical has been revoked then no RAA licence without passing that medical. If PPL lapsed and no revoked medical then OK on drivers licence.
Weight breaks are 540kg if you roll your own and 600kg for factory rolled LSA. Thats about my limit of knowledge on RAA rules. plenty of info on the RAA site if you really want to dig.
As for GFPT? You can do your solo NAV training out of a ClassC aerodrome like EN if you wish. My surprise was finishing my licence at EN after many years break on a very lapsed RPPL and found it quite refreshing to fly solo from EN down to PK for some circuits. Almost as much experience as my NAV3, Class C airspace MBZ and Tower aerodrome in one trip! Fly in that environment all the time and the ATO has a hard time trapping you on procedures
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OZ says:
Indeed you are right. Luckily for RA the 600kg's solved this problem partially, however the problem still exists:
J230 BEW around 365+
95kg of fuel
leaves 2 x 70kg bods with no baggage and no room for safety equipment
The tiger country argument was an extremely loose one and had it been successful would have meant every man and his dog heading into Class C fields such as Essendon, plus GAAP. GAAP's don't need more traffic right now!
OZ Says:
Yes, RAA can experience the thrill of flying into a large GAAP like aerodrome like Moorabbin, by flying in there when it's a CTAF(R).
If you had a PPL previously and your BFR has lapsed, you effectively have a non-current PPL as far as RAA is concerned and as such won't have to do the whole syllabus again.
Yes, good call, important to note. If you want to keep flying and think that you will fail your medical, don't sit for your medical and you will still be able to fly RAA.
Aircraft certified under 95.55 (properly certified) are limited to 544 kgs. Aircraft approved under LSA are up to 60kg's.
The LSA regs are somewhat "looser" than the 95.55 ones. The purpose of LSA was to level the playing field for low end cheaply operated GA aircraft to bridge the pricing gap between GA and RAA. This is happening if you consider the Sportstars at Moorabbin and the Tecnam's at Bankstown (if they are still there).
Ever done a W&B on a 230? or a 170? Two half decent sized aussie guys and you are going NOWHERE! (legally)
J230 BEW around 365+
95kg of fuel
leaves 2 x 70kg bods with no baggage and no room for safety equipment
The tiger country argument was an extremely loose one and had it been successful would have meant every man and his dog heading into Class C fields such as Essendon, plus GAAP. GAAP's don't need more traffic right now!
OZ Says:
When GAAPs go CTAF after hours and there is daylight you can fly in on RAA licence.
If the PPL licence is lapsed then you have to do the whole RAA licence to get to the same level.
If your medical has been revoked then no RAA licence without passing that medical. If PPL lapsed and no revoked medical then OK on drivers licence.
Weight breaks are 540kg if you roll your own and 600kg for factory rolled LSA. Thats about my limit of knowledge on RAA rules. plenty of info on the RAA site if you really want to dig.
The LSA regs are somewhat "looser" than the 95.55 ones. The purpose of LSA was to level the playing field for low end cheaply operated GA aircraft to bridge the pricing gap between GA and RAA. This is happening if you consider the Sportstars at Moorabbin and the Tecnam's at Bankstown (if they are still there).
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Thank you all for confirming what I thought was the case.
In conclusion RA-Aus CAN fly into a CTR if equipped with necessary aircraft, pilot and equipment.
Out of further curiosity, does this apply to gliders and motorgliders? If I recall correctly some non powered glider altitude records of over 35,000 ft happened around Mt Beauty some years back.
In conclusion RA-Aus CAN fly into a CTR if equipped with necessary aircraft, pilot and equipment.
Out of further curiosity, does this apply to gliders and motorgliders? If I recall correctly some non powered glider altitude records of over 35,000 ft happened around Mt Beauty some years back.
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Howdy Frank.
Yes the status quo is the go........ No changes at all as I understand it.
And yes you point out, nothing has changed if the RAA machine is equipped and flown by suitably licensed pilot.
Speaking to one high profile CFI today, and he was delighted. Same opinion about some other wild ideas that were being sought. Seems my comments above are actually similar to those who run schools and have been long term members.
A good outcome for RAA .... blessing in disguise.
J
PS Just a point that we all may forget from time to time, a GAAP is not really CTA in the true sense of the word, just because they have a tower. Different rules apply and basically the tower controls the bitumen strip and provides a traffic service and sequencing advisory......the ATC folk might clarify further but its like a restriced CTAF R with a ATC clearence to land......maybe I have not explained that well. Lets just say just because it looks feels and sounds like Class C or D..... its NOT!
Yes the status quo is the go........ No changes at all as I understand it.
And yes you point out, nothing has changed if the RAA machine is equipped and flown by suitably licensed pilot.
Speaking to one high profile CFI today, and he was delighted. Same opinion about some other wild ideas that were being sought. Seems my comments above are actually similar to those who run schools and have been long term members.
A good outcome for RAA .... blessing in disguise.
J
PS Just a point that we all may forget from time to time, a GAAP is not really CTA in the true sense of the word, just because they have a tower. Different rules apply and basically the tower controls the bitumen strip and provides a traffic service and sequencing advisory......the ATC folk might clarify further but its like a restriced CTAF R with a ATC clearence to land......maybe I have not explained that well. Lets just say just because it looks feels and sounds like Class C or D..... its NOT!
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Out of further curiosity, does this apply to gliders and motorgliders? If I recall correctly some non powered glider altitude records of over 35,000 ft happened around Mt Beauty some years back.
It would appear on the face of it that this action is to mainly keep RAA out of GAAP due to the recently announced changes.
It would appear on the face of it that this action is to mainly keep RAA out of GAAP due to the recently announced changes.
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Greenie..... the folk that now own all the GAAP's are doing that for us already, none of them can afford to stay!
Mind you I think there are too many training schools at GAAP's, too crowded and accidents do seem to have happened of late.......whether that is attributable to the level of activity I do not know!
J
Mind you I think there are too many training schools at GAAP's, too crowded and accidents do seem to have happened of late.......whether that is attributable to the level of activity I do not know!
J