Attention:Qantas Longhaul Flight Attendants Accommodation
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QCCA FA's and the FAAA
would like to share with all u guys that I have been talking to a lot of my QCCA colleagues and the vast majority that has joined the union has done so only because they had a "deal" of not charging new QCCA FA's till the end of this financial year. the problem that the union will face is that I have not met one single QCCA FA that has said that they will sign up after that and pay the $ 625 yearly fee. it will be very very interesting to see how many new members the union will have next financial year.
in regards to the whole seniority thing and room allocation, recently a new FA, that i know, when checking in in sin was asked by another senior QF crew for her room keys because he had swapped their rooms around . I couldnt believe his audacity. I totally respect and understand how seniority is important but doing that was wrong wrong wrong. after all its just a room. cant c the difference of staying on the 50th, 35th, 25th or 11th floor.
in regards to the whole seniority thing and room allocation, recently a new FA, that i know, when checking in in sin was asked by another senior QF crew for her room keys because he had swapped their rooms around . I couldnt believe his audacity. I totally respect and understand how seniority is important but doing that was wrong wrong wrong. after all its just a room. cant c the difference of staying on the 50th, 35th, 25th or 11th floor.
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cartexchange
i am 110% sure about that as i am a QCCA FA myself.
i dont wanna get to political here but, under my current pay there is no way i can afford $ 625 bucks per year . and that goes for a LOT of my friends that fly. i honestly dont know 1 that has said they will renew/ take up their membership.
( as i said i dont wanna get involved in the pay thing as ii is my choice to be here ).
but i guarantee you, that, in my opinion the union will have no members from QCCA when the next financial year kicks in.
the excellent "deal" they got us will bite the FAAA back in their B****.
time will tell. no members no $.
i dont wanna get to political here but, under my current pay there is no way i can afford $ 625 bucks per year . and that goes for a LOT of my friends that fly. i honestly dont know 1 that has said they will renew/ take up their membership.
( as i said i dont wanna get involved in the pay thing as ii is my choice to be here ).
but i guarantee you, that, in my opinion the union will have no members from QCCA when the next financial year kicks in.
the excellent "deal" they got us will bite the FAAA back in their B****.
time will tell. no members no $.
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I can confirm the FAAA did waiver membership til July 1st. I am a new recruit and was advised by the FAAA directly and the Union Rep that spoke to us in ground school.
I would have joined then anyway! First impressions are that QF management aren't the most engaging bunch that ever ran a business.
I would have joined then anyway! First impressions are that QF management aren't the most engaging bunch that ever ran a business.
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FAAA Fees
During Training School and coming out onto reserve line was deemed by the FAAA particularly tough financially for the new QCCA crew. Furthermore during probation, new employees have no access to unfair dismissal laws. It was therefore deemed a recruiting exercise to offer a short waiver of fees to new flight attendants until the start of the financial year.
In the mean time the FAAA have met with the company almost daily in the implementation of EBA 8. for both QCCA and QAL crew.
The EBA deals with semiority for QAL crew but not QCCA no do AKL BKK or LHR have seniority.
The debacle over alphabetical started when the Kiwi crew objected to the QCCA crew being given choice of room allocation and work position ahead of them.
They got their Union to approach Qantas for recognition of their "seniority".
CC Management immmedialtely reacted by withdrawing the seniority numbers of not only the Kiwi crew but everyone other than QAL crew wwhere the EBA requires them to use seniority.
They moved to an alphabetical system that had unintended consequences for everyone and the FAAA has been trying to clean up the mess ever since.
The FAAA position is clearly Start Date for everyone. Until QCCA crew start putting pressure on Qantas for recognition of their start date and telling them they dont want the so called fair share it will not happen,
Further, if the QCCA crew arent members of the union then they have no representation. That would be just plain stupid and my experience is that they are anything but stupid.
They will continue to be members of the FAAA in the same percentages as QAL crew, and if they dont then only they will suffer not the QAL crew i can assure you all.
Without representation Qantas will just do whatever they want including sacking you for looking sideways or not carrying a waiters cloth.
Remember that many of these managers are lunatics
In the mean time the FAAA have met with the company almost daily in the implementation of EBA 8. for both QCCA and QAL crew.
The EBA deals with semiority for QAL crew but not QCCA no do AKL BKK or LHR have seniority.
The debacle over alphabetical started when the Kiwi crew objected to the QCCA crew being given choice of room allocation and work position ahead of them.
They got their Union to approach Qantas for recognition of their "seniority".
CC Management immmedialtely reacted by withdrawing the seniority numbers of not only the Kiwi crew but everyone other than QAL crew wwhere the EBA requires them to use seniority.
They moved to an alphabetical system that had unintended consequences for everyone and the FAAA has been trying to clean up the mess ever since.
The FAAA position is clearly Start Date for everyone. Until QCCA crew start putting pressure on Qantas for recognition of their start date and telling them they dont want the so called fair share it will not happen,
Further, if the QCCA crew arent members of the union then they have no representation. That would be just plain stupid and my experience is that they are anything but stupid.
They will continue to be members of the FAAA in the same percentages as QAL crew, and if they dont then only they will suffer not the QAL crew i can assure you all.
Without representation Qantas will just do whatever they want including sacking you for looking sideways or not carrying a waiters cloth.
Remember that many of these managers are lunatics
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Good responce Peg
It's easy!!!
You know the rules before you start and if you don't like them then don't join.
If you like the rules welcome, nice to have as part of the team and together we'll get you better conditions.
United we stand and devided we give bonus points.
You know the rules before you start and if you don't like them then don't join.
If you like the rules welcome, nice to have as part of the team and together we'll get you better conditions.
United we stand and devided we give bonus points.
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Qflhfa
.......which toadstool did you pop up from???
First we have Pegasus, then, Guardian 1.......what next do we get from the latte sippers from the bunker ?
This was always going to happen, ie. step by step dismantling of the Seniority system. Lets face it boyz and girlsz-QCCA will have ALL the power in 5 years time.
The next EBA -we'll be hammered and the seniority system will be all but forgotten-just like the beach that use to come up to the steps at the Gulf Hotel !!!
Just like that Monty Python Pet Shop sketch.
WAKE UP POLLY PARROT !!!!..........THIS BIRD IS EXTINCT !
First we have Pegasus, then, Guardian 1.......what next do we get from the latte sippers from the bunker ?
This was always going to happen, ie. step by step dismantling of the Seniority system. Lets face it boyz and girlsz-QCCA will have ALL the power in 5 years time.
The next EBA -we'll be hammered and the seniority system will be all but forgotten-just like the beach that use to come up to the steps at the Gulf Hotel !!!
Just like that Monty Python Pet Shop sketch.
WAKE UP POLLY PARROT !!!!..........THIS BIRD IS EXTINCT !
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Stubby i dont share your pessimistic view in fact i think quite the opposite will occur.
Far from the QCCA crew wanting to get rid of seniority i am already hearing that if anything that they want to be part of it.
And i for one agree with them. Seniority plain and simple just works.
Fair share is horse**** .....its just a recipe for corruption and allowing the company to play with rosters as they see fit. i for one am totally against anything other that recognition of years of service. It doesnt have to be the be all and end all but it must be given appropriate recognition
Far from the QCCA crew wanting to get rid of seniority i am already hearing that if anything that they want to be part of it.
And i for one agree with them. Seniority plain and simple just works.
Fair share is horse**** .....its just a recipe for corruption and allowing the company to play with rosters as they see fit. i for one am totally against anything other that recognition of years of service. It doesnt have to be the be all and end all but it must be given appropriate recognition
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stubby jumbo
couldnt agree more with u. at the end of this EBA 8 QCCA will outnumber QAL and with all honesty we ( and i speak for the friends that i have ) dont give a rats a** about seniority.
we, that have come from MAM, are used to NO seniority. and in terms of how up u r in the "hotel" seniority ladder, love, i wont even go there. as i previously said its just a room. and as i heard the other day from a QCCA flight attendant's mouth: " that b***h can have the 43rd floor. i am happy on the 11th . its just a room and in case there's a fire im closest to the ground than she is !!!".
that said, cant wait to c hwo many QCCA members the union will have.
and yes A_B_P and UDP, there r 2 of u. congrats.
i wish i could afford the current union fees. i am and have always been union pro, dont take me wrong. my problem is i can not afford $625 per year. and when i say that, i assure you, i am not alone. in my case and in many others it is an affordability problem.
in short haul the union would cost me about $300 per year. have always been a member since the day i joined. but that was half than the current membership. in my case i have bills coming out of my pores. do u know how much i could stock up my pantry with $ 625 ? food to last me a while. i knw its sad but its reallity.
would love the FAAA to come up with a better deal after the end of this financial year. as a short haul casual we only paid half the ammount that the QF SH crew, which was a really good deal for eveybody. its just a suggestion. and not once i heard any QF SH crew saying that it was unffair.
we, that have come from MAM, are used to NO seniority. and in terms of how up u r in the "hotel" seniority ladder, love, i wont even go there. as i previously said its just a room. and as i heard the other day from a QCCA flight attendant's mouth: " that b***h can have the 43rd floor. i am happy on the 11th . its just a room and in case there's a fire im closest to the ground than she is !!!".
that said, cant wait to c hwo many QCCA members the union will have.
and yes A_B_P and UDP, there r 2 of u. congrats.
i wish i could afford the current union fees. i am and have always been union pro, dont take me wrong. my problem is i can not afford $625 per year. and when i say that, i assure you, i am not alone. in my case and in many others it is an affordability problem.
in short haul the union would cost me about $300 per year. have always been a member since the day i joined. but that was half than the current membership. in my case i have bills coming out of my pores. do u know how much i could stock up my pantry with $ 625 ? food to last me a while. i knw its sad but its reallity.
would love the FAAA to come up with a better deal after the end of this financial year. as a short haul casual we only paid half the ammount that the QF SH crew, which was a really good deal for eveybody. its just a suggestion. and not once i heard any QF SH crew saying that it was unffair.
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Solution to union fees!!!
Considering QCCA are paid almost $30,000 less than QLH crew, perhaps the FAAA should consider reducing QCCA union fees by 50%, or better more, increase the fees of QLH crew to cover the fees of QCCA crew... I think that's a fair deal, I'm sure the QLH crew would also.
Considering QCCA are paid almost $30,000 less than QLH crew, perhaps the FAAA should consider reducing QCCA union fees by 50%, or better more, increase the fees of QLH crew to cover the fees of QCCA crew... I think that's a fair deal, I'm sure the QLH crew would also.
Last edited by Qantart; 26th May 2008 at 03:58.
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It frustrates me to hear QFA crew talking about low wages of other cabin crew when in fact QCCA are have the lowest base salary for cabin crew in Australia. I am so embarrassed they even comment about it. Then some also ask them about their conditions yet they voted them in? I guess a majority of people just saw the $'s Qantas threw and ticked yes? Bit like dangling a carrot infrot of a rabbit.
I also agree that QCCA will outnumber QF in 5 years time, if they don't outnumber them, the percentage will be at least half if not more, and without their involvement with the union QFA are toast.
QF looked for crew with previous flying experience in most cases when hiring for QCCA.Most have come from other airlines which don't use seniority, MAM, Jetstar, Emirates, Virgin, Tiger, Qantaslink, so I doubt crew from QCCA really care for it now, especially since QCCA will be at the bottom of a very old list.
I also support the theory of QCCA paying a reduced rate of union fee's it should be based on your salary. If QF can create a B scale that the union supported, then the union should support it by offering a B scale membership fee.
I also agree that QCCA will outnumber QF in 5 years time, if they don't outnumber them, the percentage will be at least half if not more, and without their involvement with the union QFA are toast.
QF looked for crew with previous flying experience in most cases when hiring for QCCA.Most have come from other airlines which don't use seniority, MAM, Jetstar, Emirates, Virgin, Tiger, Qantaslink, so I doubt crew from QCCA really care for it now, especially since QCCA will be at the bottom of a very old list.
I also support the theory of QCCA paying a reduced rate of union fee's it should be based on your salary. If QF can create a B scale that the union supported, then the union should support it by offering a B scale membership fee.
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Tax deductable
Union fees are tax deductible.
The downturn in the current aviation cycle will probably slow the growth of QCCA as routes are culled and aircraft parked
QFLHFA sounds like the reincarnation of an extinct troll
The downturn in the current aviation cycle will probably slow the growth of QCCA as routes are culled and aircraft parked
QFLHFA sounds like the reincarnation of an extinct troll
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couldnt agree more with some of the points mentioned here.
if the union could come up with a reduced membership rate im in. i know its tax deductable but i have to come up with the ocsts up front and wait a whole financial year to c some of it back. not fun !
and as QFLHFA mentioned, a lot of current QCCA crew have been hired form other airlines without seniority, hence my comment a few threads behing that we dont give a rats a** about seniority. we have all lived without it. and yes we will outnumber u guys. ( although i doubt i will be around till the next EBA to c it anyway... )
A_B_P when u say: " I have been shown nothing but empathy for our position from the current crew regarding our wages..." ; i would bloody hope so considering they r the ones that voted the big YES.
i hear a lot of QFLH crew saying things like: OMG! i cant believe they r doing this to you. this roster is apawling. pooor thing... bla bla bla - and that should be illegal. they wouldnt be able to do that to us... and so on... u know what ? i never say anything but at times i feel like saying: SAVE UR PITY. I HOPE U ENJOYED UR $3K BRIBE.
its all down hill from now on. and in my opinion this seniority thing is just the begining. enjoy the ride.
if the union could come up with a reduced membership rate im in. i know its tax deductable but i have to come up with the ocsts up front and wait a whole financial year to c some of it back. not fun !
and as QFLHFA mentioned, a lot of current QCCA crew have been hired form other airlines without seniority, hence my comment a few threads behing that we dont give a rats a** about seniority. we have all lived without it. and yes we will outnumber u guys. ( although i doubt i will be around till the next EBA to c it anyway... )
A_B_P when u say: " I have been shown nothing but empathy for our position from the current crew regarding our wages..." ; i would bloody hope so considering they r the ones that voted the big YES.
i hear a lot of QFLH crew saying things like: OMG! i cant believe they r doing this to you. this roster is apawling. pooor thing... bla bla bla - and that should be illegal. they wouldnt be able to do that to us... and so on... u know what ? i never say anything but at times i feel like saying: SAVE UR PITY. I HOPE U ENJOYED UR $3K BRIBE.
its all down hill from now on. and in my opinion this seniority thing is just the begining. enjoy the ride.
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As a QCCA member I am at the bottom of the barrel for rosters, hotels and all the rest of it. If I was a brand new QF Airways cabin crew on the QF eba, I would be at the bottom of the barrel.
I stand back when checking into hotels, Not because of the QF seniority but out of courtesy to other crew who are flying. If someone wants the 43rd floor facing the Pacific Ocean go for it. Its yours. I am not paying for it so I am not going to make demands for it.
I am happy to have a job and be flying.
I support the Union and respect the crew that have been in the job longer than me and we are all adults so thats all that matters.
I stand back when checking into hotels, Not because of the QF seniority but out of courtesy to other crew who are flying. If someone wants the 43rd floor facing the Pacific Ocean go for it. Its yours. I am not paying for it so I am not going to make demands for it.
I am happy to have a job and be flying.
I support the Union and respect the crew that have been in the job longer than me and we are all adults so thats all that matters.
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FAAA Fees
An unfair termination costs the same for a QCCA crew member as for QAL crewmember. Generally around 30-40k. Not including the time of the union officials.
For those suggesting reduced fees are they suggesting that the FAAA should also pro rate the amount of money spent on a defence and say only spend 15-20K
The reality is that the cost of membership is tax deductible and i can assure you that the FAAA will offer the same level of representation to QCCA members as QAL members.
The SH FAAA has a range of fees and even with that half the MAM's were not members. and SH flight attendants are resigning in droves apparently.
If you get into trouble and you are not an FAAA member dont expect any assistance. Income is one factor, but the FAAA fought for the same meal allowances, theh same overtime triggers and a range of other things to be the same. Much better than Jetstar conditions. If you want to pro rate the fees then perhaps you should pro rate the meal allowances and everything else.
The FAAA fees pay for a service and if you dont feel that it represents value for money then dont join. But then dont complain that you dont have a voice or a vote.
If you want to get better conditions the solidarity of the union is the only thing that will achieve it. If you are not FAAA members then your conditions will never improve.
QCCA crew have promotional opportunities that would not be there in MAM , they get the same annual leave and Long Service leave as QAL crew, Same meal allowances etc ...all fought for in the negotiations by the FAAA.
Ask an FAAA rep what the company really wanted and why it took two years of talks to achieve the EBA outcome.
WIthout the FAAA and current long haul crew voting for it, then the jobs wouldnt exist or if they did it would be on massively reduced conditions.
If you feel that the fees are too much then you should write to the FAAA, i am sure there are no closed minds on the executive and a reasonable approach should be discussed rationally. Just bear in mind that after tax its not a lot of money compared to the benefits
For those suggesting reduced fees are they suggesting that the FAAA should also pro rate the amount of money spent on a defence and say only spend 15-20K
The reality is that the cost of membership is tax deductible and i can assure you that the FAAA will offer the same level of representation to QCCA members as QAL members.
The SH FAAA has a range of fees and even with that half the MAM's were not members. and SH flight attendants are resigning in droves apparently.
If you get into trouble and you are not an FAAA member dont expect any assistance. Income is one factor, but the FAAA fought for the same meal allowances, theh same overtime triggers and a range of other things to be the same. Much better than Jetstar conditions. If you want to pro rate the fees then perhaps you should pro rate the meal allowances and everything else.
The FAAA fees pay for a service and if you dont feel that it represents value for money then dont join. But then dont complain that you dont have a voice or a vote.
If you want to get better conditions the solidarity of the union is the only thing that will achieve it. If you are not FAAA members then your conditions will never improve.
QCCA crew have promotional opportunities that would not be there in MAM , they get the same annual leave and Long Service leave as QAL crew, Same meal allowances etc ...all fought for in the negotiations by the FAAA.
Ask an FAAA rep what the company really wanted and why it took two years of talks to achieve the EBA outcome.
WIthout the FAAA and current long haul crew voting for it, then the jobs wouldnt exist or if they did it would be on massively reduced conditions.
If you feel that the fees are too much then you should write to the FAAA, i am sure there are no closed minds on the executive and a reasonable approach should be discussed rationally. Just bear in mind that after tax its not a lot of money compared to the benefits
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Peg.. few questions/comments
You said:
"If you want to get better conditions the solidarity of the union is the only thing that will achieve it. If you are not FAAA members then your conditions will never improve."
I don't think the Union heard any complaints from any QCCA crew members when the alphabetic system was introduced. The only thing the FAAA was concerned about was QFA, QCCA were quite happy having seniority taken from under QFA's feet in order to have an equal chance of workplace allocation.
You said:
"QCCA crew have promotional opportunities that would not be there in MAM , they get the same annual leave and Long Service leave as QAL crew, Same meal allowances etc ...all fought for in the negotiations by the FAAA."
It doesn't take a mathemation to calculate that company preffer QCCA for promotional positions when they can pay them 50k to do the job rather than 100k. Look at the entry level for flight attendants now compared to what QFA get at entry level.
Seriously, if the union wants to keep QCCA members I suggest they think of something very fast. Pretty bad if they gave crew 3 months free membership and didn't even prove their worthiness to them in that time by favouring QFA.
You said:
"If you want to get better conditions the solidarity of the union is the only thing that will achieve it. If you are not FAAA members then your conditions will never improve."
I don't think the Union heard any complaints from any QCCA crew members when the alphabetic system was introduced. The only thing the FAAA was concerned about was QFA, QCCA were quite happy having seniority taken from under QFA's feet in order to have an equal chance of workplace allocation.
You said:
"QCCA crew have promotional opportunities that would not be there in MAM , they get the same annual leave and Long Service leave as QAL crew, Same meal allowances etc ...all fought for in the negotiations by the FAAA."
It doesn't take a mathemation to calculate that company preffer QCCA for promotional positions when they can pay them 50k to do the job rather than 100k. Look at the entry level for flight attendants now compared to what QFA get at entry level.
Seriously, if the union wants to keep QCCA members I suggest they think of something very fast. Pretty bad if they gave crew 3 months free membership and didn't even prove their worthiness to them in that time by favouring QFA.