Merged: QANTAS/ALAEA EBA
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lets not forget the union is a democracy not a dictatorship we were given the chance to vote on 3% + sweeteners and we, as a body chose to reject the offer, ok, some of us would have been happy with 3%, but obviously not all.
If it is such a good deal why doesn't management take the same deal, let the top brass give back their excessive increases and bonuses and take what they dish out to the rest of us. I sure if GD, MH, DC and all the others got behind their staff,..... bit the bullet during these tough times, ( not just a pathetic wage freeze, after a pay raise ) accepted the conditions that we have to put up with ( upgradeable economy staff travel, not allowed to eat a hot meal in the terminal, salary sacrifice lease cars, bolt on payments, etc, etc ).
If you offered this sort of deal to the top brass do you think they would accept it, hmmmm.
Look at all the hoops we have to jump through now, I remember as an apprentice there was no such thing as having to enter tech logs into the computer, no tow safe, no local area procedures, no online training, no self regulating leave, no self entering EQ, nowhere near as much reoccurant training, no tank entry training, no wing grip, no cherry picker training, and so on, the list is getting endless, yet we still have to do all this stuff and maintain aircraft. They preach OHS and then hassle you when you take 5 and close your eyes while waiting for an aircraft to arrive, lets not forget audits and safety observations, cert4 training, cancellations of leave due not enough staff when we decide not to do O/T, surely there are some stressed engineers around by now.
I know we need some of this stuff, but really when is enough, enough, when can I get back to fixing planes, getting trained on the planes I fix, and actually doing what I was employed to do.
I just want managment to manage the airline and let me do my job with their support, not their hinderance. Stop cutting out the resources that helped us do our jobs and stop putting things in place which make me "go slow"
, and show some gratitude when the guys go out of their way to get one over the fence with minimal delay.
If it is such a good deal why doesn't management take the same deal, let the top brass give back their excessive increases and bonuses and take what they dish out to the rest of us. I sure if GD, MH, DC and all the others got behind their staff,..... bit the bullet during these tough times, ( not just a pathetic wage freeze, after a pay raise ) accepted the conditions that we have to put up with ( upgradeable economy staff travel, not allowed to eat a hot meal in the terminal, salary sacrifice lease cars, bolt on payments, etc, etc ).
If you offered this sort of deal to the top brass do you think they would accept it, hmmmm.
Look at all the hoops we have to jump through now, I remember as an apprentice there was no such thing as having to enter tech logs into the computer, no tow safe, no local area procedures, no online training, no self regulating leave, no self entering EQ, nowhere near as much reoccurant training, no tank entry training, no wing grip, no cherry picker training, and so on, the list is getting endless, yet we still have to do all this stuff and maintain aircraft. They preach OHS and then hassle you when you take 5 and close your eyes while waiting for an aircraft to arrive, lets not forget audits and safety observations, cert4 training, cancellations of leave due not enough staff when we decide not to do O/T, surely there are some stressed engineers around by now.
I know we need some of this stuff, but really when is enough, enough, when can I get back to fixing planes, getting trained on the planes I fix, and actually doing what I was employed to do.
I just want managment to manage the airline and let me do my job with their support, not their hinderance. Stop cutting out the resources that helped us do our jobs and stop putting things in place which make me "go slow"
, and show some gratitude when the guys go out of their way to get one over the fence with minimal delay.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: SYDNEY
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well done Steven and the ALAEA..../... I think the agreement you have reached will be accepted by your membership.
The Pope agrees,
3% it is
better than nothing
When will you announce that its over
The Pope agrees,
3% it is
better than nothing
When will you announce that its over
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
REDHAWKE37 SAID
When was the last time a manager, any manager actaully admitted fault and apologised for the fault/wrong decision that cost so much of company funds and time to execute, and asked for input from those doing the job how to get things back on track? I can't recall. The mentality of this management is to crash or crash through at any cost. Sounds a bit like NSW government's sale of the electricity.
Below is an extract from an interview with Dixon back in December 2005. The link is Flying hazards - CEO Forum Group
When was the last time a shareholder (apart from employees holding shares) serviced an aeroplane to get it in the air, or fly a plane to get the passengers to their destination, or served the passengers their meals and drinks on board during the flight, or checked in the passenegers and gave them their boarding passes, put the passengers bags on board the aircraft, made the meals for the flight, cleaned the aeroplanes, etc etc? Not once! The day to day shareholders don't actually contribute anything to the running of this or any other company, but will demand an increase in their share price and higher dividends. This can be only achieved when the employees are happy with their work environment and have some shred of rapport with their management. This in turn is reflected with a "whistle while you work" attitude and making the effort to have the customers away on time and satisfied. This will then give people confidence that the company has solid foundations and loyal staff, and are then happy to invest in that company.
What we have today is a totally disenfranchised staff from its management with a "who cares?" attitude but still turn up to work, albeit doing the best they can with the little they have, to make a company run that runs like a spider with brain damage.
As has been stated in earlier posts, there is a mistrust that runs deep and wide between not only the engineers and management, but a majority of QF staff and management, and this will not ease until management stops trying to thump its way through every decision and blocking any sort of dialogue.
A 3% wages policy is just that. A policy. Not a fair wages outcome, or recognition of the work done by its staff. It is the management and shareholders riding the back of every QF employee that delivers the profits for the shareholder's taking.
Enough is enough.
If QANTAS is to survive and resemble a fraction of what it used to be, there needs to be a quick end to this stalemate, and everyone get on with what they've been trained to do. THEIR JOBS!!!
You are kidding yourself if you think that these kind of statements are clever or show you to be a leader in any way. When will you wake up that we are one company. The opertaional staff,managers, exec's everybody contibutes and for the most part the higher you get in any organisation the more complex the problems become and the more they involve people. Mate I started as an apprentice and I can tell you, each step along the way the problems become more difficult and always involve compromise and sometimes you dont like the compromises you have to make but make them you must. Quit bagging the people with other ideas, supervisors, managers and execs, you might think you have a monopoly on knowing what is the best for the company but I have some bad news for you. We will never become the great company we deserve to be until this negative and devisive thinking changes. It serves only the politicians among us who "divide to thrive" and we all know who they are. Its time the silent majority started to shout down some of you bitter and devisive types - being a clever, articulate and expirienced engineer doesnt buy you respect from anybody - I still remember how those types dominated the company when we were govt owned and they would have led us into distinction long ago.
Below is an extract from an interview with Dixon back in December 2005. The link is Flying hazards - CEO Forum Group
ceoforum.com.au: What have you found to be the most important personal qualities in a CEO to effectively drive execution?
GD: Hard work is a given, and the ability to make decisions without delay, once you have the facts. Too often I see a reluctance to decide, not only in our own company but in business generally. You also need to be flexible: if you have made a mistake admit it, make any necessary U-turns, and get back on track quickly.
GD: Hard work is a given, and the ability to make decisions without delay, once you have the facts. Too often I see a reluctance to decide, not only in our own company but in business generally. You also need to be flexible: if you have made a mistake admit it, make any necessary U-turns, and get back on track quickly.
Of course we won’t collapse - that is ridiculous – but, if we don’t reward our shareholders, they won’t give us the funds we need to grow.
I sometimes get criticised for this, but I have always seen shareholders as our most important stakeholders. I know some CEOs say look after your customers, look after your employees, and the returns for shareholders will follow. I do the exact opposite. We wouldn’t have staff or customers unless we had shareholders who were willing to invest in what is not the most attractive industry at present, and I am constantly stating that message to our staff.
I sometimes get criticised for this, but I have always seen shareholders as our most important stakeholders. I know some CEOs say look after your customers, look after your employees, and the returns for shareholders will follow. I do the exact opposite. We wouldn’t have staff or customers unless we had shareholders who were willing to invest in what is not the most attractive industry at present, and I am constantly stating that message to our staff.
What we have today is a totally disenfranchised staff from its management with a "who cares?" attitude but still turn up to work, albeit doing the best they can with the little they have, to make a company run that runs like a spider with brain damage.
As has been stated in earlier posts, there is a mistrust that runs deep and wide between not only the engineers and management, but a majority of QF staff and management, and this will not ease until management stops trying to thump its way through every decision and blocking any sort of dialogue.
A 3% wages policy is just that. A policy. Not a fair wages outcome, or recognition of the work done by its staff. It is the management and shareholders riding the back of every QF employee that delivers the profits for the shareholder's taking.
Enough is enough.
If QANTAS is to survive and resemble a fraction of what it used to be, there needs to be a quick end to this stalemate, and everyone get on with what they've been trained to do. THEIR JOBS!!!
Join Date: May 2008
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
calm down my feathered friend
REDHAWKE37
Good evening my friend, I sense your anger and frustration. I hear what your saying. We are all hurting by this O/T ban in one way or another. As you are fully aware we all took a 5.39% pay cut in Adelaide about 18 months ago because the management said that we were costing them too much and they were hard done by, only to post a $1.7bil profit. These cost savings along with the redundancies all went to line the pockets of JG, MH, DC and the likes. With rising fuel prices, rising cost of living, rising interest rates we are all hurting through this. I have a friend at work that you would know well, he has been forced to seek additional work in the building industry on sh*t money, working nearly 4 or 5 days of his 5 day break. This same person from what he showed me the other day has paid a total of $49500 of child support and mortgage over the last year. The O/T he worked was the additional that paid some of the bills around the house and fixed the things that needed fixing. Like I said we are all hurting.
Jumping up and down, yelling and screaming wont solve anything at this point, its happening for what ever reason and there is jack ****e that can be done about it. Try and look to the future and not the present.
If it goes all wrong then shout, you and I together, will sing the same chorus. Save face and say nothing at the moment, let it ride.
At the end of this, my feathered friend, we will both turn to management and say hey, ...... HAPPY, point at them and say....... SAD
hang in there brother, we are all hurting
Good evening my friend, I sense your anger and frustration. I hear what your saying. We are all hurting by this O/T ban in one way or another. As you are fully aware we all took a 5.39% pay cut in Adelaide about 18 months ago because the management said that we were costing them too much and they were hard done by, only to post a $1.7bil profit. These cost savings along with the redundancies all went to line the pockets of JG, MH, DC and the likes. With rising fuel prices, rising cost of living, rising interest rates we are all hurting through this. I have a friend at work that you would know well, he has been forced to seek additional work in the building industry on sh*t money, working nearly 4 or 5 days of his 5 day break. This same person from what he showed me the other day has paid a total of $49500 of child support and mortgage over the last year. The O/T he worked was the additional that paid some of the bills around the house and fixed the things that needed fixing. Like I said we are all hurting.
Jumping up and down, yelling and screaming wont solve anything at this point, its happening for what ever reason and there is jack ****e that can be done about it. Try and look to the future and not the present.
If it goes all wrong then shout, you and I together, will sing the same chorus. Save face and say nothing at the moment, let it ride.
At the end of this, my feathered friend, we will both turn to management and say hey, ...... HAPPY, point at them and say....... SAD
hang in there brother, we are all hurting
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hicksville, Alabama
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why dont we ask fedsec what really happened - the company has made several offers as I understand
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: perth
Age: 56
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Feathered Friend
STAY COOL BRO......
HOW ABOUT WE THROW IN ANOTHER 20?
MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER FRIEND?
WE ARE IN IT,BATTLE LINES ARE DRAWN...
THE BOARD IS NERVOUS AND THE FLYING KANGAROO"S
CREDABILITY IS AT STAKE.
NOSE TO THE GRIND STONE BROTHER WE CAN DO THIS!!!!!!!
HOW ABOUT WE THROW IN ANOTHER 20?
MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER FRIEND?
WE ARE IN IT,BATTLE LINES ARE DRAWN...
THE BOARD IS NERVOUS AND THE FLYING KANGAROO"S
CREDABILITY IS AT STAKE.
NOSE TO THE GRIND STONE BROTHER WE CAN DO THIS!!!!!!!
Join Date: May 2008
Location: SYDNEY
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So are you all saying that its not over?????
i have heard that Steven has been promised a Senate seat , catch is that this goes away
This is very recent info, look for the repectful OLD senator with grey shadings to step aside.
Only catch is this dispute needs to go away and soon!!!!!
Please deny it!!!!
i have heard that Steven has been promised a Senate seat , catch is that this goes away
This is very recent info, look for the repectful OLD senator with grey shadings to step aside.
Only catch is this dispute needs to go away and soon!!!!!
Please deny it!!!!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: 3rd Rock from the Sun
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Redhawk37 - Mork calling Orson
What planet are you from?
YOU WEREN'T THERE, but you heard it from a mate who heard it from management that there was a definite commitment by the ALAEA to the companies offer.
I can tell you I was at those meetings where the Executive presented the EBA offer (in it's entirety, as backed up by GD's statements to the press about what was in the EBA) and we decided to reject it not the Executive.
It was the Executives job to bring us the EBA offer, which I might add was not well received by them, but in the interest of getting the process moving accepted it and that is where GD thinks they said YES.
For your info. An Enterprise Bargaining Agreement is reached by negotiation not by codling together a list of things one man thinks is what would be good for a collective then digging in and bullying them into accepting it.
God forbid the collective having the audacity to question/reject an obviously bad pay offer, which falls well short of the CPI and the cost of living in general.
We are not just fighting for a better pay offer, but for our jobs. If this lot get their way, all that will be left of Qantas will be a Logo on the tail of the Aircraft and signage on the side of a building at Mascot period.
Vicky, unlike so many others I maintain a reasonable and open mind on these things and I also have people who i regard as friends in the management side. I am actually told by people I trust that the company did not back away from their commitment but it was the ALAEA who have done so because they couldnt sell it to the members - its the reason GD has dug in , because the management feel that the Union has not kept its word.
I can tell you I was at those meetings where the Executive presented the EBA offer (in it's entirety, as backed up by GD's statements to the press about what was in the EBA) and we decided to reject it not the Executive.
It was the Executives job to bring us the EBA offer, which I might add was not well received by them, but in the interest of getting the process moving accepted it and that is where GD thinks they said YES.
WRONG, WE HAD THE FINAL SAY AND WE SAID NO
For your info. An Enterprise Bargaining Agreement is reached by negotiation not by codling together a list of things one man thinks is what would be good for a collective then digging in and bullying them into accepting it.
God forbid the collective having the audacity to question/reject an obviously bad pay offer, which falls well short of the CPI and the cost of living in general.
We are not just fighting for a better pay offer, but for our jobs. If this lot get their way, all that will be left of Qantas will be a Logo on the tail of the Aircraft and signage on the side of a building at Mascot period.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mr Fed Sec,
Are you aware that the strike breakers are now working in LA. That is why they are doing the full A chk's now. What is the associations position on the Qantas engineers up there working beside strike breakers assisting airnair in undermining our position.
Redhawk the Association rejected the in principle agreement due to the company reneging on it not the ass. Tell your little matey group that! Don't get to close to your management friends as they are clearly using you as a pawn.
Are you aware that the strike breakers are now working in LA. That is why they are doing the full A chk's now. What is the associations position on the Qantas engineers up there working beside strike breakers assisting airnair in undermining our position.
Redhawk the Association rejected the in principle agreement due to the company reneging on it not the ass. Tell your little matey group that! Don't get to close to your management friends as they are clearly using you as a pawn.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Redhawk
Ah Smilie, its humurous to see you back here again, felching up some more of MH's cr@p. You must be guinnea pig of the week this week specially since the fat controller has moved on 
How do those adl boys take you seriously anymore, or have you been giving them extra pineapples since you got down there
How do those adl boys take you seriously anymore, or have you been giving them extra pineapples since you got down there
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: australia
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Redhawk37
Vicky, unlike so many others I maintain a reasonable and open mind on these things and I also have people who i regard as friends in the management side. I am actually told by people I trust that the company did not back away from their commitment but it was the ALAEA who have done so because they couldnt sell it to the members - its the reason GD has dug in , because the management feel that the Union has not kept its word.
JUST SHOW ME THE MONEY, NOTHING LESS THAN 5 %
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pilots guiding planes in without traffic controllers
Management will find a way to blame this on the engineers also.
Pilots guiding planes in without traffic controllers - National - smh.com.au
Pilots guiding planes in without traffic controllers - National - smh.com.au
Pilots are being forced to guide planes in NSW this evening because of a shortage of air traffic controllers.
The shortage means an area north-west of Canberra, normally covered by controllers in Melbourne, is unmanned.
A spokeswoman for Airservices Australia, the government body in charge of air traffic control management, said the shortage was affecting flights between Sydney and Melbourne, and Canberra and Sydney.
The area would be unmanned between 8pm and 10pm (AEST).
The Airservices Australia spokeswoman said airlines had been advised of the problem earlier today, and it was up to them whether they continued with their flights, diverted them away from the affected area, or delayed them.
Pilots could guide their own planes through the air space without the air traffic controllers, she said.
When asked by AAP if this posed a safety risk, she said the issue was being handled according to regulations.
The spokeswoman said the area in question was usually monitored by air traffic controllers from Melbourne but tonight there were not enough to do the job.
She did not know why there was a staff shortage, and was not aware of any industrial action taking place.
"I don't have the detail," she said.
The spokeswoman expressed regret at the incident.
"We regret that we don't have the full services available," she said.
When asked if this was a rare occurrence, she said there had been some similar "outages" last weekend.
She did not know how many flights had been affected.
The shortage means an area north-west of Canberra, normally covered by controllers in Melbourne, is unmanned.
A spokeswoman for Airservices Australia, the government body in charge of air traffic control management, said the shortage was affecting flights between Sydney and Melbourne, and Canberra and Sydney.
The area would be unmanned between 8pm and 10pm (AEST).
The Airservices Australia spokeswoman said airlines had been advised of the problem earlier today, and it was up to them whether they continued with their flights, diverted them away from the affected area, or delayed them.
Pilots could guide their own planes through the air space without the air traffic controllers, she said.
When asked by AAP if this posed a safety risk, she said the issue was being handled according to regulations.
The spokeswoman said the area in question was usually monitored by air traffic controllers from Melbourne but tonight there were not enough to do the job.
She did not know why there was a staff shortage, and was not aware of any industrial action taking place.
"I don't have the detail," she said.
The spokeswoman expressed regret at the incident.
"We regret that we don't have the full services available," she said.
When asked if this was a rare occurrence, she said there had been some similar "outages" last weekend.
She did not know how many flights had been affected.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PIA and school holiday period
What's the go during the school holidays? I am told that the PIA is "on hold". I assume that just means there will be no stop work meetings during this period, but overtime bans continue. Is that correct?
If that is the case, it's obviously not going to make a big difference to anything; the overtime bans are having the biggest impact!
FOG
If that is the case, it's obviously not going to make a big difference to anything; the overtime bans are having the biggest impact!
FOG
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What's the go during the school holidays? I am told that the PIA is "on hold". I assume that just means there will be no stop work meetings during this period, but overtime bans continue. Is that correct?
If that is the case, it's obviously not going to make a big difference to anything; the overtime bans are having the biggest impact!
If that is the case, it's obviously not going to make a big difference to anything; the overtime bans are having the biggest impact!
I hope this didn't take you all week to work out. It only took me one day before my anger and disappointment at no more stop work meetings subsided. I think the bigger thing that is killing them is the new rules we work to. Keep up the good work guys.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: PERTH
Age: 62
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
UP D DATE...
I think the pineapples have come back to WA. Heard he's been doing a bit of work in Per of late...
Ah Smilie, its humurous to see you back here again, felching up some more of MH's cr@p. You must be guinnea pig of the week this week specially since the fat controller has moved on How do those adl boys take you seriously anymore, or have you been giving them extra pineapples since you got down there
How do those adl boys take you seriously anymore, or have you been giving them extra pineapples since you got down there
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not an engineer, just a supportive flight attendant. I don't get ALAEA updates. Most of what I know is from you guys here at Pprune and from a couple of engineering mates, when I get the chance to speak to them. I must have missed some posts about the school holidays. It's a shame we don't get any info from our own union.
I was told at a pre-flight briefing the other day that there is no industrial action going on during the school holidays, so there shouldn't be any delays. Of course, I laughed at that. I assumed that "no industrial action" must mean no stop work meetings only. The overtime bans must surely still stand?? And as you said, Mr Goatrider, the "the bigger thing that is killing them is the new rules (you) work to"
I've been keeping my eye on the delays, and there are still plenty! I can't believe the company doesn't have a greater sense of urgency to get this thing sorted out
I was told at a pre-flight briefing the other day that there is no industrial action going on during the school holidays, so there shouldn't be any delays. Of course, I laughed at that. I assumed that "no industrial action" must mean no stop work meetings only. The overtime bans must surely still stand?? And as you said, Mr Goatrider, the "the bigger thing that is killing them is the new rules (you) work to"
I've been keeping my eye on the delays, and there are still plenty! I can't believe the company doesn't have a greater sense of urgency to get this thing sorted out