Merged: QF Recruitment
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You lose your staff travel seniority, it is reset on the day you start with Mainline.
However, you are able to use it from the first day as they waive the six month waiting period.
However, you are able to use it from the first day as they waive the six month waiting period.
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Waiting...
Guys/Gals,
Just hang in there!! It took me over a year to get through the selection process (maybe that was my fault though, not very competitive!?) & from a rough offer of employment I had to wait 18 months due delayed recruitment. Not a sob story, there are plenty worse off than me but you'll probably get in eventually. Hang in there!
Just hang in there!! It took me over a year to get through the selection process (maybe that was my fault though, not very competitive!?) & from a rough offer of employment I had to wait 18 months due delayed recruitment. Not a sob story, there are plenty worse off than me but you'll probably get in eventually. Hang in there!
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Since recruitment has slowed down from the boom earlier this year I would be very interested to know if anyone has heard whether people are getting called for courses based on the 'seniority' of their interview date, or the competitiveness of their results (ie, back to the hold file scenario where the most competitive float to the top).
Long John
My Dad told me the biggest ones always float to the top...
My Dad told me the biggest ones always float to the top...
I don't think 'seniority' of the interview or letter of intent matters given that out of the 8 people who started the September course on Monday, 6 were cadets straight from the cadetship that just finished. No industry placement at all.
Begs the questions then Dragun who were the other 2 people? How long were they sitting on the letter of intent and when were they told of their start dates? As according to the Rat they are still finalising the training plan going forwrd in light of the recent events in aviation!
So once again we are in the situation of no information! Way to go QF!
So once again we are in the situation of no information! Way to go QF!
Last edited by Rhodes13; 23rd Sep 2008 at 10:28.
I know it's frustrating, but not sure if you're waiting for a phone call from them too?
You may want to "sanitize" your personal info so comments can't be publically tracked back to ya.......not that there was anything harsh mentioned, just thought I'd point that out before someone starts indvertantly unloading both barrels
You may want to "sanitize" your personal info so comments can't be publically tracked back to ya.......not that there was anything harsh mentioned, just thought I'd point that out before someone starts indvertantly unloading both barrels
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Another great demonstration of QF's commitment to those at the bottom. 
In essence - the dozens (hundreds) of pilots ready to commit for hopefully a lifetime of service, and QF squabbles about just how long they can hold off on employing them to save a few dollars.
Make a decision! Someone? Give your prospective employees some confidence that their services are not just worthy in the next few months, but for the next several decades!!!!
VI
In essence - the dozens (hundreds) of pilots ready to commit for hopefully a lifetime of service, and QF squabbles about just how long they can hold off on employing them to save a few dollars.
Make a decision! Someone? Give your prospective employees some confidence that their services are not just worthy in the next few months, but for the next several decades!!!!
VI
Nunc est bibendum
What do you guys expect? If you've read these forums in any depth then already know the machinations that go on in Qantas at all levels for those they've already employed. Why then would you expect anything different- or something better- when you don't even have a job yet? Don't get me wrong, the job is great and the crew you fly with are great but the treatment you're receiving from Qantas is no different to that which occurs in most other big companies and will be no different once you get in. I've got strong links in Defence, Police and education and the issues they face are identical.
Having discussed some recruiting issues with the pilot recruitment people in recent times you need to understand that this is one of the more complex issues that Flight Ops deals with. Unlike Defence where they can schedule a course 12 months in advance and select people for it, QF's needs change on a quarterly, monthly and sometimes weekly basis. Sims break down pushing training back, F/Os and Captains require additional sim time- sometimes on other fleets- which ultimately impacts back on the initial courses, etc, etc, etc. When you think that a one hour delay in one port can often take five or six DAYS to remove the ripple affect on the remainder of the network and then apply that to pilot training then you have the broad concept.
So whilst I understand the frustrations (having been told years ago I was being 'fast tracked' and then waiting another 14 months until I got in) at the end of the day you need to suck it up and get on with your life. You need to not get wound up at this treatment now because if stuff like this frustrates you then the next 30 years isn't going to be very enjoyable either. Keep in mind too that you're not yet an employee and QF (as in the 'system') doesn't owe you anything. You may like to think they do- and I wish they could tidy up some of these areas- but they certainly don't think they do or at least think it's important enough to add the extra resources to deal with it.
Good luck to all. I hope to fly with you. Just don't whinge about how long it took to hear back about getting in because most of us have lived it too.
Having discussed some recruiting issues with the pilot recruitment people in recent times you need to understand that this is one of the more complex issues that Flight Ops deals with. Unlike Defence where they can schedule a course 12 months in advance and select people for it, QF's needs change on a quarterly, monthly and sometimes weekly basis. Sims break down pushing training back, F/Os and Captains require additional sim time- sometimes on other fleets- which ultimately impacts back on the initial courses, etc, etc, etc. When you think that a one hour delay in one port can often take five or six DAYS to remove the ripple affect on the remainder of the network and then apply that to pilot training then you have the broad concept.
So whilst I understand the frustrations (having been told years ago I was being 'fast tracked' and then waiting another 14 months until I got in) at the end of the day you need to suck it up and get on with your life. You need to not get wound up at this treatment now because if stuff like this frustrates you then the next 30 years isn't going to be very enjoyable either. Keep in mind too that you're not yet an employee and QF (as in the 'system') doesn't owe you anything. You may like to think they do- and I wish they could tidy up some of these areas- but they certainly don't think they do or at least think it's important enough to add the extra resources to deal with it.
Good luck to all. I hope to fly with you. Just don't whinge about how long it took to hear back about getting in because most of us have lived it too.
Talk about a pack of whingers! Whilst I was pretty lucky myself, spare a thought for those back in the dark old days of 2005/2006 when guys were put on hold in late 2005 and only employed mid last year!!! And there was no such thing as a letter of intent then - things were even more of a mystery.
And G'day Victor India, haven't heard from you in a while mate! Hope all is well.
And G'day Victor India, haven't heard from you in a while mate! Hope all is well.
I've neither whinged nor made out like I feel QF owe me anything. If you read my posts I've only ever stated the facts of which I'm aware, or asked generic, open questions that either don't make sense to me or to which someone may know the answer. Remember, this is a forum for those in this situation to discuss and share thoughts and ideas about what may be happening. Frustration is bound to come out at some level.
I'm in total agreement - whinging will get you nowhere. I am however, already employed by a QF group company so I definitely don't feel that QF owes me anything and already know to some extent the way in which situations and circumstances can inhibit, change or cancel plans within upper and middle management.
Despite this, considering no aircraft orders have been cancelled to date, retirements and attrition still occuring, I guess most people are trying to understand how an updated course forecast can take almost 2 months to complete when everyone received an email almost 6 weeks ago stating it would be a maximum of 4 weeks. Again, not complaining - but I personally believe there is a lot more to this waiting for a new forecast than just having course numbers approved. Obviously the internal politics - new CEO, new CP, EBA etc are all playing a part and I know it's out of the recruitment departments hands at the moment.
Cheers all
I'm in total agreement - whinging will get you nowhere. I am however, already employed by a QF group company so I definitely don't feel that QF owes me anything and already know to some extent the way in which situations and circumstances can inhibit, change or cancel plans within upper and middle management.
Despite this, considering no aircraft orders have been cancelled to date, retirements and attrition still occuring, I guess most people are trying to understand how an updated course forecast can take almost 2 months to complete when everyone received an email almost 6 weeks ago stating it would be a maximum of 4 weeks. Again, not complaining - but I personally believe there is a lot more to this waiting for a new forecast than just having course numbers approved. Obviously the internal politics - new CEO, new CP, EBA etc are all playing a part and I know it's out of the recruitment departments hands at the moment.
Cheers all
Nunc est bibendum
Dragun, you are in the group, you've experienced the bun fight that is Group Flight Training and you understand the way the goal posts change on a weekly basis. I must admit to not even taking a note of which 'handles' were having a whinge and your posts in the last couple of pages were probably not the ones that I directed my comments at.
However, if you read the bunch of contributions previous to mine then you'll probably agree that I'm pretty close to the mark.
As an aside, is it just me or are some of the contributions immediately prior to my previous post typical of the Gen Y attitude? Perhaps that's just my Gen X (read old age) coming to the fore.
However, if you read the bunch of contributions previous to mine then you'll probably agree that I'm pretty close to the mark.
As an aside, is it just me or are some of the contributions immediately prior to my previous post typical of the Gen Y attitude? Perhaps that's just my Gen X (read old age) coming to the fore.
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keg,
you said
I'm Gen X like you (I think... what is the actual cutoff?). I'd counter your comment by suggesting that the amount of fence sitting and and indecision within QF's Recruiting Department at times is extremely Gen Y-esque. By my reckoning, it would be a nice old fashioned thing to be given a start date that means something, and not 3 days before you start.
Wouldn't you agree?
VI
PS - Hey TL... all's well mate. Sorry couldn't resist the thread...
you said
As an aside, is it just me or are some of the contributions immediately prior to my previous post typical of the Gen Y attitude?
Wouldn't you agree?
VI
PS - Hey TL... all's well mate. Sorry couldn't resist the thread...
Keg I would be the first to say I agree with you that the goal posts are always moving but the attitude displayed by the recruitment team leaves a lot to be desired.
Your suggestion that this sort of thing goes on in defense, police and education suggests that all government/ ex government companies have a bit to learn about HR. Furthermore because its happened since day dot does that necessarily make it right and ethical? Remember treat others as you would expect to be treated. How would QF like it if the shoe was on the other foot?
I am more than happy to wait for a job but what is killing me is the lack of information/ communication. It would be much nicer if they just turned around and said listen no jobs till at least XX date, instead of constantly changing their minds about when the training plan is issued and in the mean time adding to the hold pool. I would suggest to you if that was the case then people could better plan their lives and see whether QF is the best option for them. Much like Victor India said it would be nice to have a little bit more notice than can you start next week considering Im willing to relocate from the other side of the world? Whatever happened to professional courtesy to other companies and your future employees?
I chat to guys outside of aviation and they all shake their heads at the way we pilots are happy to be treated. Do you think if this was a job for an accountancy firm or another professional job we would be happy to be treated this way? They'd tell the employer to go and get stuffed!
Your suggestion that this sort of thing goes on in defense, police and education suggests that all government/ ex government companies have a bit to learn about HR. Furthermore because its happened since day dot does that necessarily make it right and ethical? Remember treat others as you would expect to be treated. How would QF like it if the shoe was on the other foot?
I am more than happy to wait for a job but what is killing me is the lack of information/ communication. It would be much nicer if they just turned around and said listen no jobs till at least XX date, instead of constantly changing their minds about when the training plan is issued and in the mean time adding to the hold pool. I would suggest to you if that was the case then people could better plan their lives and see whether QF is the best option for them. Much like Victor India said it would be nice to have a little bit more notice than can you start next week considering Im willing to relocate from the other side of the world? Whatever happened to professional courtesy to other companies and your future employees?
I chat to guys outside of aviation and they all shake their heads at the way we pilots are happy to be treated. Do you think if this was a job for an accountancy firm or another professional job we would be happy to be treated this way? They'd tell the employer to go and get stuffed!
Last edited by Rhodes13; 24th Sep 2008 at 17:53.
It would be much nicer if they just turned around and said listen no jobs...
...I've had that letter from QF. TWICE.
Nunc est bibendum
Rhodes, I've long been an advocate that poor past performance is no excuse for continuing that treatment or that just because others have lived through a crap system that others should be inflicted with the same. The point of my earlier post however is not saying 'suck it up' because we all had to.
My point is 'suck it up' because QF don't see the imperative to change and if they're not going to treat their current employees with respect (although many of us hope that may change in the short to medium term) and the QF wannabes see that articulated on PPRUNE on a daily basis then what possible hope do you have of getting better when you're not even in the pipeline.
Your third paragraph is the clincher though. The reality is that they probably can't provide you with firm information because they just don't know. As I've said before, plans at QF change regularly and can sometimes be made from well above Flight Operations. The decision by the CEO to have a hiring freeze at the end of the last FY meant a shortage of pilots across all ranks because we didn't have the new S/Os in at the ground level to release people for promotional training. That was a last minute change. The financial crisis has added a new dimension to the program with demand softening.
You're quite right about the way that aviation professionals are treated by employers and the way that professionals are treated in other industries. In many respects it's because of some very unique demands on this industry. I guess at the end of the day until you're in a position to change it the options are simple. Suck it up or if 'positive' treatment is what you're after you could always become an accountant. Somehow I think you, like me, will still choose aviation.
Final point (because I'm simply repeating previous points). Get used to this. Your next 30-40 years in aviation will have similar experiences....at least until you're the Chief Pilot and can change it for the newbies following.
My point is 'suck it up' because QF don't see the imperative to change and if they're not going to treat their current employees with respect (although many of us hope that may change in the short to medium term) and the QF wannabes see that articulated on PPRUNE on a daily basis then what possible hope do you have of getting better when you're not even in the pipeline.
Your third paragraph is the clincher though. The reality is that they probably can't provide you with firm information because they just don't know. As I've said before, plans at QF change regularly and can sometimes be made from well above Flight Operations. The decision by the CEO to have a hiring freeze at the end of the last FY meant a shortage of pilots across all ranks because we didn't have the new S/Os in at the ground level to release people for promotional training. That was a last minute change. The financial crisis has added a new dimension to the program with demand softening.
You're quite right about the way that aviation professionals are treated by employers and the way that professionals are treated in other industries. In many respects it's because of some very unique demands on this industry. I guess at the end of the day until you're in a position to change it the options are simple. Suck it up or if 'positive' treatment is what you're after you could always become an accountant. Somehow I think you, like me, will still choose aviation.
Final point (because I'm simply repeating previous points). Get used to this. Your next 30-40 years in aviation will have similar experiences....at least until you're the Chief Pilot and can change it for the newbies following.