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CurlyB 16th June 2025 18:45


Originally Posted by BANANASBANANAS (Post 11903510)
Uranium has to be enriched with U-235 to around 3%-5% to efficiently power a nuclear power station. That figure rises to around 90% to produce a reliable nuclear weapon. I believe it was the IAEA who recently stated that Iran was at 60% enrichment. That is clearly far more than is needed for nuclear power stations, no explanation has been offered for the 60% by Iran so what conclusions would a rational person draw from this information? Factor in that Iran has stated that it would like to see Israel wiped off the face of the earth and it is not difficult for that rational person to understand why Israel may feel entitled to ‘get its retaliation in first!’

Israel has been on record saying similar things about Iran
https://www.ft.com/content/58d55e61-...d-65a56d9114f5

“Tehran will burn”
The reason th Iranians are enriching uranium to a higher U-235 portion squarely lies on Trump reneging on the JCPOA

https://www.dw.com/en/iran-israel-co...0for%20concern.

In 2015, Iran reached a landmark deal with the US and other Western countries, known as the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA). The agreement limited Iran's nuclear program and imposed strict controls in exchange for the easing of sanctions. However, US President Donald Trump withdrew from the agreement in 2018 during his first term, criticizing it as merely temporary and failing to address Iran's ballistic missile program. The US then imposed new sanctions on Iran. In response, Iran gradually scaled back from its compliance with the agreement and significantly increased its uranium enrichment beyond the 3.67% limit set under the 2015 deal.
I presume you're referring to the Mahmoud Ahmadinejad statement about Israel?
A 20 year old quote form a man who hasn't been in power for decades is a bit of a reach to justify a war. Trump has said worse things in the last week

Hangarless 16th June 2025 18:49

I hold the view that the Israelis, assisted by the US will not stop until they have absolutely destroyed any ability that Iran has to produce a nuclear weapon and that the Ayatollah and his fanatical religious regime is removed from power, one way or another.

Andy_S 16th June 2025 19:11


Originally Posted by SWBKCB (Post 11903666)
Well, apart from the civilians getting killed - if the Israelies are after regime change, they seem to be assuming that any replacement government will be an improvement. What if it is a worse, more rogue?

1. If so, then their military abilities will be hugely compromised.
2. Any sign that Iran represents a wider threat to the region and the Israelis will resume their campaign.

Rinse & repeat.

West Coast 16th June 2025 19:23

Can't help but wonder if any nearby strongmen will look at a severly weakened Iran as an opportunity.

RatherBeFlying 16th June 2025 19:27

To topple the ayatollahs, you'd need tanks and boots on the ground. It's a long way across unfriendly territory. The of March of Das Reich to D Day did not go well.

Iran Shoots Down Third F-35 Fighter, Captures Second Pilot: What Are the Implications?

Iranian state media on June 14 reported the shootdown of a third Israeli F-35 fifth generation fighter in the country’s airspace, following two prior reported shootdowns and the capture of a female pilot. The aircraft was reportedly also shot down by ground-based air defence systems, with the pilot surviving and being apprehended. This has brought the total number of F-35 pilots captured to two. Military Watch previously analysed the likely veracity of Iranian claims in detail, including the strengths and limitations of the country’s air defences and the risks to F-35 squadrons as a result of the means by which they have been employed

West Coast 16th June 2025 19:34

What if the Ayatollahs are all dead? Israel won't rule out the possibility of going down that path. I can see Ayatollah number 147 on the seniority list fighting the remnants of the Iranian military for control of the country.

dga718 16th June 2025 19:45

Alas the F-14s have been destroyed:

http://www.twz.com/air/irans-f-14-pe...aeli-airstrike

Tashengurt 16th June 2025 19:54


Originally Posted by dga718 (Post 11903603)
Like others in this thread, I have been wanting to visit Iran for decades, the Persian architectural heritage looks amazing, and having grown up in SoCal, I went to school with some Persians that escaped when the Shah was overthrown - wonderful people, and I wonder now, how many of them were connected with Grumman... but I digress!

The point of this post, half cheeky, half sincere, is: I hope the F-14s that Iran apparently still has operational were not blown up.

As one who prays for detente with the Persia, I think the symbolic power of have a USA Contingent of Peace escorted through Iranian skies by F-14s would be a profound reminder that we were once friendly, and I cannot think of a better way for us to re-establish our bonds than to have the men who delivered the F-14s (and those who built the Grumman housing in and around Isfahan) reunite with those majestic birds and the Persian men who have kept them flying. Crazier things have happened in this world!


Oops. Bad news I'm afraid.

Andy_S 16th June 2025 20:08


Originally Posted by RatherBeFlying (Post 11903698)
To topple the ayatollahs, you'd need tanks and boots on the ground. It's a long way across unfriendly territory.

That's why Bibi is hoping that the Iranian people will do the heavy lifting for him.

bahblown 16th June 2025 20:13

General Wesley Clark - "We're Going to Take Out 7 Countries in 5 Years"

on Youtube.... lots of blinkers on in the military these days

Lonewolf_50 16th June 2025 21:06

WTF, General?
Since when did you un-retire and get back into Military Ops?
These days the General is a talking head; you are giving him more attention than he deserves bahblown .

Where ya sit determines what you see, apparently. As regards the Israelis creating air superiority over Iran...
One PoV from the Guardian:
Spoiler
 

And one point of view from the Telegraph
Spoiler
 

RatherBeFlying 16th June 2025 21:19


Originally Posted by Andy_S (Post 11903773)
That's why Bibi is hoping that the Iranian people will do the heavy lifting for him.

The Syrians did the heavy lifting at the cost of a gruesome toll of lives. Bibi continues to show his gratitude with air strikes.

RAFEngO74to09 16th June 2025 23:31

President Trump has warned that Tehran should be evacuated immediately. Possibly because there might be fallout from a conventional attack by B-2A on Natanz nuclear facility which is only 200 miles from Tehran.

Also, 12 x F-35A and / or F-22A believed to be arriving in CENTCOM AOR with 48 hours.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GtmbBZAa...pg&name=medium

RAFEngO74to09 16th June 2025 23:35

President Trump leaving G7 Summit early and returning to Washington DC after the formal dinner tonight.

NSC will be waiting for him in WH Situation Room tonight.

Chock Puller 17th June 2025 00:05

How vulnerable to being overthrown is the current Iranian Regime?

https://www.ncr-iran.org/en/news/ter...hange-in-2024/

Hangarless 17th June 2025 00:37


Originally Posted by RAFEngO74to09 (Post 11903873)
President Trump leaving G7 Summit early and returning to Washington DC after the formal dinner tonight.

NSC will be waiting for him in WH Situation Room tonight.

Maybe to watch the video show of a couple of Bunker Busters hitting the mark. The weekend talking heads were all out speaking about it.

Almost no news of anything else at the G7. Possibly Trump may have pre-warned the other participants but who knows.

Lindsay Graham saying tonight that it looks like we're moving to force and that we should give Israel whatever it wants in order to remove any nuclear threat which would suggest negotiating time is over.

RatherBeFlying 17th June 2025 02:19

The National Council of Resistance of Iran in the article linked above certainly shows the difficulties of the current regime. Putin's Russia has many of the same problems .Then there's MAGAland perhaps higher up on the downward slope. And let's not forget Bibi.

No matter how much we all wish one or more of these deadly leaders gone, we should not forget that each has strong supporting constituencies .

Each could stay entrenched for decades or moments before a sudden collapse.

MechEngr 17th June 2025 02:33

Would an interceptor missile/ SAM be able to sufficiently damage the expected bunker-buster weapon that Trump is apparently waving the flag about dropping on the Natanz nuclear facility? AFAIK the B-2 won't be completely stealthy when the doors open and isn't going to be very stealthy with an external store; that should give the defense a bit of time when all of a sudden a target appears without any previous track. Radar should be able to track the bomb, but it certainly should be visible in the far IR against the sky.



tartare 17th June 2025 02:49

A Presidentially directed strike on Fordow or elsewhere appears legal under the War Powers resolution.
It'd be limited military action.
Arguably protecting US interests and /or allies - and the proliferation of nuclear weapons.
Trump has to tell Congress within 48 hours, and terminate action within 60 days.

RatherBeFlying 17th June 2025 03:21

Pakistan and India will be glowing with the fallout.

ORAC 17th June 2025 03:52

If only he would they same thing about Russia over Ukraine.


Asked on American television about reports that Iran was seeking new talks through intermediaries, Trump said: “I’m not surprised. I mean, they want to continue to have these fake talks in which they lie, they cheat, they string the US along…

“They want to continue to create existential threats against Israel while they’re talking. That’s not going to happen.”

ORAC 17th June 2025 04:34

Two tankers collided and on fire in the Straits of Hormuz.

Heavy jamming has denied GPS and other guidance systems for several days and ships are having to navigate visually or by alternate means

​​​​​​​Photos are currently circulating which appear to show three ships on fire off the coast of Iran in the Gulf of Oman, near the Strait of Hormuz.

NASA’s Fire Information for Resource Management System (FIRMS) Map appearing to confirm three fires in the Gulf of Oman…..

It appears that the fires seen off the coast of Iran in the Gulf of Oman may have been caused by the collision of two oil tankers, the Antigua Barbuda-flagged ADALYNN and the Liberian-flagged FRONT EAGLE.

Though ship tracking suggests this likely happened over three hours ago, which does not explain why there had been no reports until the picture showing the fires and the statement by Ambrey.

​​​​​​​Grok:

Details on the Gulf of Oman tanker collision are still emerging. Reports suggest the tankers ADALYNN and FRONT EAGLE collided around 2114 UTC, with a fire detected shortly after. The delay in reporting could stem from communication issues in the remote area, though some speculate other causes without clear evidence.

FRONT EAGLE is likely owned by Frontline Ltd., but ADALYNN's ownership is unclear.

No official statements confirm the incident's cause or extent, and past regional tensions raise questions about alternative explanations, but nothing is verified yet. More information is needed for clarity.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....f5b4689863.png

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....fae261f514.png

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....35335e51c1.png
​​​​​​​

ORAC 17th June 2025 04:42

Pakistani Defense Minister Khawaja Asif…….. 👀👀

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....cd11ccacd0.png

fdr 17th June 2025 10:32


Originally Posted by RAFEngO74to09 (Post 11903871)
President Trump has warned that Tehran should be evacuated immediately. Possibly because there might be fallout from a conventional attack by B-2A on Natanz nuclear facility which is only 200 miles from Tehran.

Also, 12 x F-35A and / or F-22A believed to be arriving in CENTCOM AOR with 48 hours.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GtmbBZAa...pg&name=medium

History of regime change from long range strikes is not brilliant. Plays well for home audience though. Absent boots on the ground, strikes against nukulaaaar weapons programs infrastructure seem to have a dismal record of effectiveness. Plays well for home audience though.

Chance of asymmetric responses seem to elevate after re-arranging rubble in the kitty litter.

tartare 17th June 2025 10:46

I am seeing that there are still B2s at Diego Garcia. Is that correct? I thought they had all returned stateside?

Chock Puller 17th June 2025 11:10

The answer is probably "unknown".

This article offers some information re USAF assets at DG.

Elsewhere there was mention of the fact that B-2's do not do well parked out in the open due to the special skin covering being sensitive to such exposure. That is why there are four B-2 Shelters (unless more have been built) at DG.

If Six or Seven B-2's were at DG in April/May along with B-52's and F-15's.....with the current tensions and hostilities between Israel and Iran one would think there would be good reasons to maintain such a posture as was taken in that time frame.

The B-2's based in the United States have flown combat missions in the area around Iran in the past as have B-52's so DG is just a secondary location for them.

https://www.airandspaceforces.com/ai...-garcia-b-52s/

https://www.airandspaceforces.com/b-...-diego-garcia/

chevvron 17th June 2025 11:18

B2s have to be re-painted under cover after every long flight, at least that's the reason they gave for not landing one at Farnborough.

tartare 17th June 2025 11:41


Originally Posted by Chock Puller (Post 11904209)
The answer is probably "unknown".

This article offers some information re USAF assets at DG.

Elsewhere there was mention of the fact that B-2's do not do well parked out in the open due to the special skin covering being sensitive to such exposure. That is why there are four B-2 Shelters (unless more have been built) at DG.

If Six or Seven B-2's were at DG in April/May along with B-52's and F-15's.....with the current tensions and hostilities between Israel and Iran one would think there would be good reasons to maintain such a posture as was taken in that time frame.

The B-2's based in the United States have flown combat missions in the area around Iran in the past as have B-52's so DG is just a secondary location for them.

https://www.airandspaceforces.com/ai...-garcia-b-52s/

https://www.airandspaceforces.com/b-...-diego-garcia/

Interesting - thank you.

Lonewolf_50 17th June 2025 13:12


Originally Posted by Hangarless (Post 11903891)
Lindsay Graham saying tonight that it looks like we're moving to force and that we should give Israel whatever it wants in order to remove any nuclear threat which would suggest negotiating time is over.

Senator Graham might want to look up the term 'blowback.' There was a joint declaration/statement issued this morning by the governments of all of the Arab Muslim nations condemning Israel's continued attack, and calling for a return to negotiations.
While it is possibly a case of 'jaw jaw' only, I think that they are getting uncomfortable at the ease with which Israel is undressing a major regional power.
There but for the grace of Allah go I ... could be running through the minds of various leaders in the Gulf States.

Originally Posted by MechEngr (Post 11903923)
Would an interceptor missile/ SAM be able to sufficiently damage the expected bunker-buster weapon that Trump is apparently waving the flag about dropping on the Natanz nuclear facility? AFAIK the B-2 won't be completely stealthy when the doors open and isn't going to be very stealthy with an external store; that should give the defense a bit of time when all of a sudden a target appears without any previous track. Radar should be able to track the bomb, but it certainly should be visible in the far IR against the sky.

With a coherent Integrated Air Defense System in place, yes. Trouble is, the Israelis have dismantled a goodly portion of that air defense system, are now flying aircraft over Iran dropping bombs, and as stated in one of the articles further up have created a breach in the Air Defense of Iran.

“Over the past 24 hours, we completed an aerial route to Tehran and conducted an aerial breaching battle,” said Lt. Gen. Eyal Zamir, Israeli Chief of General Staff. “IAF pilots are flying at great risk to their lives, hundreds of kilometres away from Israel, striking hundreds of different targets with precision.”

With Iran’s air defences largely disabled, older Israeli aircraft like the F-15 and F-16 have joined the fight. These now deploy short-range JDAM and Spice-guided bombs—cheap, widely available, and deadly.
For that brief indiscretion by the B-2 as it gets to weapons release, which you mentioned, there might not be anyone to 'see' that on radar.

On an amusing note from the Hindustan Times:

Israel claimed to have destroyed two Iranian F-14 fighter jets at Tehran’s airport, releasing footage of the strike. However, Iran countered that the jets were actually decoys, suggesting Israel was misled by a “fake planes” ploy. The incident comes amid intense missile and drone exchanges between the two countries, with both sides escalating operations and targeting military assets and infrastructure.
I guess Topgun 3: The Last of the Tomcats is still a possibility. :E

Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11903959)
Two tankers collided and on fire in the Straits of Hormuz.

Heavy jamming has denied GPS and other guidance systems for several days and ships are having to navigate visually or by alternate means

Children of the Magenta Line, Maritime Edition. :p

Bob Viking 17th June 2025 13:31

Different assessments
 
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2025/06/17/p...nce-years-away

The US seems to think differently to Netanyahu.

BV

Biggus 17th June 2025 14:00

Everyone seems to think that as soon as the word "intelligence" is used the subsequent information must be gospel - which is of course wrong.

I once sat through a brief where a young intelligence officer was virtually wetting himself as he put up satellite image after image which he said "proved" Iraq had WMDs. We know how accurate that turned out to be.

Once someone starts to look for evidence to support a particular theory they are no longer an unbiased or dispassionate observer, and "facts" can usually be found to support an incorrect hypothesis.

Bob Viking 17th June 2025 14:01

Biggus.
 
You’re absolutely right. So somebody got it wrong.

BV

NutLoose 17th June 2025 14:11

I think the USA are possibly going to go in, you do not move assets like that to a region for nothing.

The US has moved another carrier task force to the region.

Military Moves Ships, Aircraft to Middle East as Senator Seeks to Stop US Action Against Iran | Military.com

dozens of aerial tankers have arrived in Europe.

Tankers Deploy to Europe as US Weighs Options in Israel-Iran War

[Updated] Sudden Deployment of Dozens of U.S. Air Force Tankers Raises Questions - The Aviationist


F22 and F35 are being deployed to the region

[Updated] U.S. Air Force Mobilizes F-22s and F-35s as Situation in Middle East Escalates - The Aviationist

Hangarless 17th June 2025 14:33


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11904329)
I think the USA are possibly going to go in, you do not move assets like that to a region for nothing.

The US has moved another carrier task force to the region.

Military Moves Ships, Aircraft to Middle East as Senator Seeks to Stop US Action Against Iran | Military.com

dozens of aerial tankers have arrived in Europe.

Tankers Deploy to Europe as US Weighs Options in Israel-Iran War

[Updated] Sudden Deployment of Dozens of U.S. Air Force Tankers Raises Questions - The Aviationist


F22 and F35 are being deployed to the region

[Updated] U.S. Air Force Mobilizes F-22s and F-35s as Situation in Middle East Escalates - The Aviationist

The feeling amongst some this morning is that the US is sending a large force into the region is a negotiating tactic both to Iran and possibly also send a message to Vlad.

dead_pan 17th June 2025 14:43


Originally Posted by Hangarless (Post 11904351)
The feeling amongst some this morning is that the US is sending a large force into the region is a negotiating tactic both to Iran and possibly also send a message to Vlad.

Why, what is Vlad rumoured to be planning? Offering Iran a free nuke?

dead_pan 17th June 2025 14:46


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11904329)
I think the USA are possibly going to go in, you do not move assets like that to a region for nothing.

The US has moved another carrier task force to the region.

Military Moves Ships, Aircraft to Middle East as Senator Seeks to Stop US Action Against Iran | Military.com

dozens of aerial tankers have arrived in Europe.

Tankers Deploy to Europe as US Weighs Options in Israel-Iran War

[Updated] Sudden Deployment of Dozens of U.S. Air Force Tankers Raises Questions - The Aviationist


F22 and F35 are being deployed to the region

[Updated] U.S. Air Force Mobilizes F-22s and F-35s as Situation in Middle East Escalates - The Aviationist

Guessing the tanker assets are already supporting Israel (has this been confirmed?), and the fighters provide an element of deniability for this - along with a Plan B if the US do decide to directly participate.

RAFEngO74to09 17th June 2025 15:54

Multiple KC-46A, KC-135R and KC-135T left RAF Mildenhall, Aviano AB and Ramstein AB heading for the CENTCOM AOR today with 12 x F-35A from 48th FW RAF Lakenheath and 12 x F-16CG from 31st FW Aviano AB. [source multiple spotters]

Hangarless 17th June 2025 16:46


Originally Posted by RAFEngO74to09 (Post 11904421)
Multiple KC-46A, KC-135R and KC-135T left RAF Mildenhall, Aviano AB and Ramstein AB heading for the CENTCOM AOR today with 12 x F-35A from 48th FW RAF Lakenheath and 12 x F-16CG from 31st FW Aviano AB. [source multiple spotters]

On top of these the USS Nimitz carrier group is also on its way to the area.

In all the US is moving big firepower into the region.

If Iran is not able to defend itself and close to total collapse why does it need so many assets to be in place?

Is there something else that US Intelligence is concerned about?

Lots of military talking heads have their views often conflicting in their opinions.

It would be interesting to know what the true picture is.

archae86 17th June 2025 16:54

The US military greatly prefers to have more assets than needed on hand rather than the other way round.

In 1958, the Einsenhower administration sent three aircraft carriers and lots of other assets to operation Blue Bat. This was an operation to support the Lebanese government, so it did not face anything like a near-peer adversary.

Marcantilan 17th June 2025 17:11

I am, like everyone else, following the news and, beyond the claims of Israel's ‘total air superiority’ over Iran, my question is what is the IRIAF doing at the moment?

The Israelis seem to be operating with not-so-long-range stand-off weapons, which makes it possible for them to be attacked over Iranian territory.

What happened? Does anyone know?


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