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https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ar-iran-aramco Trump says US 'locked and loaded' after Saudi Arabia attack, as oil prices soar Donald Trump has said the US was “locked and loaded” and to ready respond to drone attacks on a petroleum processing facility in Saudi Arabia, saying the US knew who was behind them. The US president tweeted on Sunday night that he had “reason to believe that we know the culprit” behind the series of attacks on the Abqaiq facility, which is the world’s largest petroleum processing plant. The attacks disrupted more than half of the kingdom’s oil output and will affect global supplies. Trump tweeted: “[We] are locked and loaded depending on verification, but are waiting to hear from the Kingdom [of Saudi Arabia] as to who they believe was the cause of this attack and under what terms we would proceed!” It is the first time the president has hinted at a potential American military response to the attack...... The US secretary of state Mike Pompeo claimed over the weekend that Iran was responsible for the attack after Yemen’s Iran-aligned Houthi rebel group claimed responsibility for the attack. However, Pompeo said there was no evidence the drones were launched in Yemen and accused Iran of “an unprecedented attack on the world’s energy supply”....... The US government produced satellite photos showing what officials said were at least 19 points of impact at two Saudi energy facilities, including damage at the heart of the kingdom’s crucial oil processing plant at Abqaiq. Officials said the photos show impacts consistent with the attack coming from the direction of Iran or Iraq, rather than from Yemen to the south........ The US officials said additional devices, which apparently didn’t reach their targets, were recovered northwest of the facilities and are being jointly analysed by Saudi and American intelligence. The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence matters, did not address whether the drone could have been fired from Yemen, then taken a round-about path, but did not explicitly rule it out........ |
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/e...udi-oil-plants EXCLUSIVE: Iranian drones launched from Iraq carried out attacks on Saudi oil plants |
Yemen's Houthi rebel group, part of a regional network of militants backed by Iran, claims to be behind the drone strikes on two Saudi oil facilities that have the potential to disrupt global oil supplies. As I type, Reuters is confirming the Houthi claim. Seems the narrative is already being shaped ahead of the claim of responsibility. JAS |
Trump tweeted: “[We] are locked and loaded depending on verification, but are waiting to hear from the Kingdom [of Saudi Arabia] as to who they believe was the cause of this attack and under what terms we would proceed!” |
Originally Posted by The Sultan
(Post 10571120)
So Trump confirms he is subservient to Saudi will. Like to see those tax returns to see how in debt he is to them. |
Or what evidence he is ignoring because he is determined not to follow his last 3 predecessors in getting dragged into a war in the Middle East. An explanation for his latest tweet where he says his waiting to see what the Saudis want to do, is because he is exerting substantial pressure to get them to do nothing. |
Originally Posted by ORAC
(Post 10571302)
Or what evidence he is ignoring because he is determined not to follow his last 3 predecessors in getting dragged into a war in the Middle East. An explanation for his latest tweet where he says his waiting to see what the Saudis want to do, is because he is exerting substantial pressure to get them to do nothing. |
An explanation for his latest tweet where he says his waiting to see what the Saudis want to do, is because he is exerting substantial pressure to get them to do nothing. I'd be amazed if the Saudis weren't piling on the pressure for the US to act, but Trump is holding off because of the impact of any action on oil prices and hence the US economy |
https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-tel...an-11568644126 U.S. Tells Saudi Arabia Oil Attacks Were Launched From Iran American intelligence indicates Iran was the staging ground for a debilitating attack on Saudi Arabia’s oil industry, people familiar with the discussions said Monday, as Washington and the kingdom weighed how to respond. The assessment, which the U.S. hasn’t shared publicly, comes as President Trump raised the prospect of a joint U.S.-Saudi retaliatory strike on Iran, a scenario that risks quickly broadening into a regional armed conflict. U.S. officials shared with Saudi Arabia the images, intelligence reports, and their assessment that Iran launched more than 20 drones and at least a dozen ballistic missiles at the Saudi oil facilities on Saturday, the people familiar said. The Saudi-led coalition leading the war in Yemen said Monday the weapons used to hit the kingdom were Iranian, in its first assessment of the weekend attacks. The coalition dismissed Yemeni Houthi rebels’ claims of responsibility for the strikes. And Secretary of State Mike Pompeo told Iraqi leaders that the U.S. didn’t believe their country was used to carry out the attacks........ After weighing the Trump administration information, Saudi Arabia announced that it was going to invite United Nations experts to come investigate the attacks, a decision likely to prolong the debate over any military response. Saudi Arabia said it would wait for the results of any such investigation before deciding how to respond........ Mr. Trump met Monday with his national security team to discuss the attacks on Saudi Arabia and escalating tensions in the Middle East, said a person familiar with the meetings. Mr. Trump and his team, which included Secretary of Defense Mark Esper and acting national security adviser Charles Kupperman, discussed possible military action against Iran, but made no decisions, said a second person familiar with the discussions. Mr. Trump has warned that the U.S. is “locked and loaded,” but that it is waiting for Saudi Arabia’s assessment of the attacks before deciding what to do next. “Both President Trump and Mohammed bin Salman feel the need to respond but neither wants war,” said Robert Malley, president of International Crisis Group and former White House Middle East coordinator under President Obama. “The question is how they achieve the former without provoking the latter.”...... |
Originally Posted by ORAC
(Post 10571302)
Or what evidence he is ignoring because he is determined not to follow his last 3 predecessors in getting dragged into a war in the Middle East. An explanation for his latest tweet where he says his waiting to see what the Saudis want to do, is because he is exerting substantial pressure to get them to do nothing. "The US is in between a rock and a hard place as a consequence of the latest attack by Houthi rebels on Saudi Arabia. The Iranians were certainly aware of the Houthis’ plans to attack the Saudi oil facilities, and the Houthis must have coordinated the attack with Iran. Nevertheless, if the US gets into a war with Iran, it has the potential to spill into a far bigger conflagration. In the event of a conflict between Iran and the US, Iran would likely use its commanding position on the mountainous, northern side of the Strait of Hormuz to halt all oil tanker traffic going through the Strait of Hormuz. Iran has scores of license-produced copies of the Chinese C-802 anti-ship cruise missile. It is roughly equivalent to the US Harpoon. Lacking any kind of countermeasures or defenses, oil tankers transiting the Strait would be utterly defenseless against missiles and torpedoes launched by the Iranian side. The US could potentially opt to retaliate with air strikes against Iran itself. However over the past 20 years, Iran has manufactured thousands of precision-guided, ballistic missiles that are specifically designed to knock out the US’s airbases guarding the Strait of Hormuz. In the event that the US directed air strikes against targets in Iran itself, the Iranian government would retaliate by unleashing these ballistic missiles on US bases in Qatar and the UAE. While the US would likely threaten the use of nuclear weapons in retaliation for such a strike, Russia recently amended its nuclear posture to allow for the use of nuclear weapons in the event that a key ally was struck by nuclear weapons. The Russian government did this specifically to address the possibility that the US would use nuclear weapons against Iran in the event of a war. Consequently, the US’s options are not particularly envious at the moment. Any strike against Iran will inevitably spiral into a major conflict. The US could opt for a diplomatic response, however the US’s sanctions landed the US in this mess to begin with. Iran is lashing out as a direct consequence of the sanctions. At that, with 50% of Saudi Arabia’s oil capacity knocked offline, the sanctions against Iran have become essentially meaningless as countries like Japan, China and India will be forced to turn to Iran to make up the difference, nullifying the effect of US sanctions." |
Originally Posted by Phantom Driver
(Post 10571552)
The Iranians were certainly aware of the Houthis’ plans to attack the Saudi oil facilities, and the Houthis must have coordinated the attack with Iran. Nevertheless, if the US gets into a war with Iran, it has the potential to spill into a far bigger conflagration.
Houthi's in a fight for survival and blockaded. They will take help and assistance from anybody. They will act as they see fit without respect to anybody because when in a fight for survival that is all that matters. Telling anybody then likelihood that words will spill out because there are spies everywhere. More column inches have been given to this attack that on the genocide in Yemen. |
Hmm - wonder if the US is contemplating some Operation Orchard-type assistance to the Saudis (if the Saudis choose to retaliate against Iran)?
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Originally Posted by racedo
(Post 10571633)
More column inches have been given to this attack that on the genocide in Yemen.
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Originally Posted by tartare
(Post 10571752)
Hmm - wonder if the US is contemplating some Operation Orchard-type assistance to the Saudis (if the Saudis choose to retaliate against Iran)?
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Originally Posted by Octane
(Post 10153550)
And the draft dodging Clown in Chief who said Sen. John McCain is not a hero because he got shot down... How does one respond to that?
I was a fighter pilot in Airwing 16 when McCain (a light attack pilot) joined my Airwing part way through our 1967 combat tour. I didn't know him previously because, in those days, the fighters and light attack aircraft operated out of different Naval Air Stations when not deployed onboard a carrier. But my friends who were attack pilots warned me to watch out for John. He was considered something of a joke among those who knew him. I was told if I wanted to meet the Admiral's little boy I had better hurry up because he wouldn't last long. Even McCain admitted in his biography that he did was at the bottom of his class in school and was switched from ship duty to the Naval flight program only because of the intervention of his daddy. He washed out of flight training several times and crashed several airplanes. Anyone else would have been transferred back to the surface Navy, but John's daddy, the Admiral, got him re instated each time and eventually he got his wings. His father even pulled extraordinary strings to get John into an Airwing involved in combat so he could tick that career box. His fellow attack pilots resented the special treatment McCain got. Sure enough, McCain didn't last very long, he got himself shot down, and became a POW where he disgraced himself by not resisting the enemy up to the standards his fellow POW's had set. My squadron mates who were POWs knew McCain in captivity and reported that sending him to a court martial after they were released was discussed as a real possibility. That didn't happen, but people who served with McCain do not consider him to be some kind of hero. To make matters worse, he betrayed his wife who stood by him for all those years he was a POW and married into an influential family who greased the skids so that he could become a U.S. Senator. I'm sure he felt more comfortable in Washington where honor, sense of duty, and truthfulness are unknown commodities. Eventually he let down his own political party. He died a bitter, hateful, little shell of a man. |
A bit harsh considering he knew he wasn't a gifted pilot. He did not hide or use family influence to dodge the draft unlike some others. He served his country. |
And the draft dodging Clown in Chief who said Sen. John McCain is not a hero because he got shot down... How does one respond to that? However, I would distance myself from the comments about his behaviour as a POW. The reported facts concerning his refusal to cooperate, his subsequent punishments which he bore stoically and his refusal to accept early repatriation because of its propaganda value to the enemy is generally accepted as both heroic and gallant. https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...ccains-heroism |
Meanwhile.... Any thoughts on this Iranian strike capability? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-49746645 |
Originally Posted by ETOPS
(Post 10573031)
Meanwhile.... Any thoughts on this Iranian strike capability? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-49746645 |
Originally Posted by ETOPS
(Post 10573031)
Meanwhile.... Any thoughts on this Iranian strike capability? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-49746645 The Ya-Ali has different shaped rear fins and also an internal engine. The cruise missile wreckage shown was from the Quds-1 type with the externally mounted turbojet. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....7ea6f10cc0.jpg Quds-1 cruise missile inset showing external turbojet. https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....642a7097e4.jpg Ya-Ali LACM https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....52d511120f.jpg https://www.armscontrolwonk.com/arch...et-the-quds-1/ |
Originally Posted by racedo
(Post 10573134)
Love the idea that somehow Israel per BBC map is non aligned.
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Originally Posted by Mozella
(Post 10572646)
Here's how:
I was a fighter pilot in Airwing 16 when McCain (a light attack pilot) joined my Airwing part way through our 1967 combat tour. I didn't know him previously because, in those days, the fighters and light attack aircraft operated out of different Naval Air Stations when not deployed onboard a carrier. Some years back I had the chance to review a whole load of old mishaps and found a folder that had his loss in the Gulf of Mexico. (One of a whole bunch of files we pored through that week). Just out of curiosity: how well did you get to know Jack Fellows or Red McDaniel? From your post, it would appear that you were not a guest at the same hotel where they stayed. As a point of comparison: I got to meet General Wesley Clark back in the 90's before he became SACEUR. I have two close friends who worked on his staff when he was at SHAPE/SACEUR. He's a very smart man who did a fine job of making a lousy impression (in re his integrity) to people whose job it was to make him look good. His foray into politics met with less than brilliant success, but he's done a decent job as a talking head for various news shows/networks. (And I don't think he'd have made any worse of a pres than any of the ones since he threw his hat in the ring ... ) Some years before that, James Stockdale got into politics with Ross Perot. A very good man whose brief career in politics was not scintillating. My point: excellence in one field of endeavor may or may not map well onto excellence in another field of endeavor. McCain was successful in politics. (And Duke Cunningham ended up in jail) When I was flying, the F-8s had been assigned to VFP/photo recon squadrons. (Looks like you got to fly them while they were still F'ing). They made quite the racket coming aboard. |
Interesting that not a peep in the tv media about this ( so far ) . Focus still on Saudi refineries that have already had half the lost capacity restored (allegedly...) ; and you wonder why the folks over there get kind of cheesed off .
https://t.co/vwolCGnRlr "The US forces in Afghanistan have admitted that a drone attack that killed at least 30 pine nut farmers in Nangarhar province on Thursday was conducted by them. At least 40 others were injured in the attack in Wazir Tangi area of Khogyani district that was previously attributed to the West-backed Afghan government. A spokesman for US forces in Afghanistan confirmed on Thursday that the drone attack was conducted by the US with the intention of destroying a hideout used by the fighters of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL or ISIS) group." |
Originally Posted by Phantom Driver
(Post 10574876)
Interesting that not a peep in the tv media about this ( so far ) . Focus still on Saudi refineries that have already had half the lost capacity restored (allegedly...) ; and you wonder why the folks over there get kind of cheesed off .
https://t.co/vwolCGnRlr "The US forces in Afghanistan have admitted that a drone attack that killed at least 30 pine nut farmers in Nangarhar province on Thursday was conducted by them. At least 40 others were injured in the attack in Wazir Tangi area of Khogyani district that was previously attributed to the West-backed Afghan government. A spokesman for US forces in Afghanistan confirmed on Thursday that the drone attack was conducted by the US with the intention of destroying a hideout used by the fighters of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL or ISIS) group." |
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Originally Posted by ORAC
(Post 10581068)
The belief is that it would be a lack of a big enough impact but it is not trying to make a big enough impact it is ensuring the defenders are aware they are not invulnerable and that everywhere is a target. Missile swarms could be a day 1-2 strategy before using a bigger offense after that. The nightmare scenario for a naval captain is yes we can defend the ship at close quarters BUT a Gatlin overheats and they do not carry enough ammo to keep going 24/7. Ultimately as per space movies a force field shield is the next defence step to combat this but technology is not there yet. |
And that's where directed energy systems could be useful.
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US Army is already on the DE case. For use future against Russian drones, which have been very useful, to say the least, in the Eastern Ukraine insurgency..
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Surprising that al Jazeera would run this Reuters article exposing Iran's planning behind their Saudi oil installation attack.
https://english.alarabiya.net/en/fea...l-attacks.html |
These new, unconventional tactics have certainly got western strategists scratching their heads. So much for investing in radar and missiles to detect and defeat ballistic missiles etc - the threat has gone low-tech and low-altitude.
Interesting comments about the relative costs & availability of defensive missiles vs the inbound threats, be it drones or whatever. Even the Israelis only use Iron Dome on projectiles which are heading towards populated areas - anything heading towards open country is left alone. |
Only two thirds the size? That’s still massive.......
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/i...tice-hr5f7xkb8 Iran builds a fake US aircraft carrier for target practice Iran’s Revolutionary Guard has built a fake American aircraft carrier and moored it at the entrance to the Gulf, according to satellite pictures. The presence and purpose of the carrier, which also has 16 fake fighter jets parked on its landing deck, have not been confirmed by officials. It may be used as part of military exercises to shore up domestic morale that has been hit hard by sanctions, poverty and the Middle East’s worst outbreak of coronavirus. Five years ago a previous mocked-up carrier was attacked and sunk for the cameras by missiles after being used as a test target....... The new “aircraft carrier” is in dock at Bandar Abbas, the large Iranian port by the Strait of Hormuz, the entrance to the Gulf. It is built to resemble a Nimitz-class US carrier, several of which patrol the Gulf region on rotation, although it is only about two thirds the size of the real thing. The satellite pictures were taken by Maxar Technologies, a space technology company, and passed to a news agency. Months after the similar carrier was sunk in live-fire drills in February 2015 the deal between Iran, the US and other major states was signed, limiting Iranian nuclear development in return for sanctions relief, and leading to a lessening of military tensions. Since President Trump pulled out of the deal two years ago the Gulf has once again become a playground for a US-Iranian test of wills, with Revolutionary Guard ships harassing American naval vessels....... https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....fe51084d2.jpeg |
Training is something people spend money on. They are training someone.
Honestly, no big deal. If they think it is important enough, they spend money on it. |
Is that connected by a tunnel?
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I wonder if their F-35's fly?
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https://www.snafu-solomon.com/2020/0...is-waging.html
Royal Saudi Air Force is waging an unnoticed war against Iranian made IED drones... |
Self-inflicted or with 'outside help'?
Second explosion in a week at Iran’s key weapon facilities Article intro - An explosion yesterday rocked Iran’s main uranium enrichment plant which the West believes is part of the country’s nuclear weapons programme.It was the second blast at a key Iranian military production facility in a week. The authorities in the Islamic republic released photographs of a brick building at the plant, in the city of Natanz in central Iran, damaged by scorch marks, but played down the seriousness of the explosion and subsequent fire. |
Now let’s see, who has the nearest F-35s?
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just as likely to be rogue software like the attack a few years ago on the centrifuges
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
(Post 10828262)
just as likely to be rogue software like the attack a few years ago on the centrifuges
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From an article in The Times today.
Iran fears sabotage plot after new ‘attack’ Suspicions that Iran is the victim of an international sabotage operation have intensified after a fire at a power station, the third incident in nine days. |
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