I can't imagine how a US spy-plane could have strayed over the border into Iran........

Tourist

The Iranians think they know... see my last post

I was being sarcastic.

Does anyone here really believe that the US needs to use a stealth UAV over Afghanistan, or that the Irani's have the capability to take charge of one of those little kids toy helicopters let alone a spangly new stealth toy?

I'm guessing (betting:E) engine failure or loss of datalink.

Thanks, Teeej.

I read that too. My question really is, is it press, political prancing, something that really happened or posturing? I guess without access to the real int, in't hard to tell. Yeas, it looks like something has been shot down. No surprises from anyonone that thet MAY have been UAVs flying there - I would hope they would be. I'd like to hear more on this one. Not one to jump to conclusions too quickly. Or speculate too much in public just yet.

On the other hand, what the hell am I doing here. Fair cop. Shoot me!! :rolleyes:

The remainder of today, then 10 days until SAM's deadline (oops, poor choice of word). I'm a bit worried about his absence from the discussion - perhaps he really has been taken into custody for questioning about his inside knowledge of military and geo-political sensitive areas...

I think the latest development is yet another example of Iranian paranoia/schizophrenia and how they want to be seen by their neighbours - as on the ball, high-tech, no nonsense hard liners, some of whom wouldn't mind having a a dash of the capitalist, secular western values that (almost) were once the norm in their country (setting aside the brutally repressive dictatorship that enabled it to be so).

As for the damage, I don't think it was inflicted by air delivered bombing, far too neat a pattern. More likely an unfortunate accident, or deliberate self destruction to stir the intel plot.

Mister B

SAM

:rolleyes:

Why, and I ask with a due sense of dread, would it have hit at a minimum of 120mph due to the height at which it flew?

It wouldn't be the first time a 'plane has 'landed' without anyone at the controls - whether on-board or remote.

F-106 Delta Dart - 58-0787 Pilotless Landing

(I accept that the '170 probably has a somewhat more unstable design than a Delta Dart.)

Tourist,

Presumably because terminal velocity for a non-streamlined human body is 55 ms-1 (or 120 mph). So it must be the same for everything. Oh, no it’s not!

That was, with mounting horror, kind of what I was concerned SAM was about to suggest.


"gravitational V2":ooh:

Tourist,

Could be another chance for a bet :O
(Although 5 pages of sam explaining himself might kill off the thread).

Uh .... what?

I will estimate an episode of posting while tipping a few ale bottles. :cool:

'Yes, I believe Tehran downed this US drone, through jamming.'

Really? And yet in the same post you state that the drone is designed to return to base if jammed.

'The HDD carries simple functions & complex navigational data. It also has "failsafe" data that should enable the UAV - if "interfered with" to abort it's mission & fly back to it's launch point'

Not very consistent are you.

Mundane Stuff
 

Sam, I realise that most of the time you are discussing the space time continuum with Stephen Hawking, with the odd spare minutes casting pearls our way but...do you think you could PM me with the 6 winning numbers for Saturday's lottery old chap?CB

SAM

"Terminal velocity of any solid object such as a ball bearing or cannon ball (or a human body) dropped from more than approx 500ft is around 120 mph."




My worst fears are realised.



I honestly don't know where to begin.

Somebody.
Anybody?

Nobody say the "R" word...

Tourist, you may say it.

Right. From my schoolboys book of basic physics, Terminal velocity is derived from the square root of 2 x the object's mass x g (nearly 10 m/s/s) all divided by the density of the fluid (air) x the presented area of the object times the drag coefficent.

In the case of a human body, a canonball and a broken remote control aircraft, a lot of those funtions remain the same. So you tell me if a canonball with a big mass compared to its presented area will fall faster, slower or at the same speed as a human body. And then extend that argument to the RC aeroplane.

Do the maths. You'll find there is a big difference.

...and as long as the altitude from which this body started its freefall is sufficient for it to reach Vt (a few hundred feet, but can't be bothered to work it out now), anything extra is meaningless. In fact, once it's reached Vt, it will start to slow down again as it enters denser air - increased drag and greater buoyancy. Simples!

Does that help you out, Tourist? You did know where to start, but sometimes it's just too much trouble, isn't it.

Why didn't the sycamore seed that hit me on the bonce the other day leave me reeling in pain? Surely even such a small object would cause harm at such a tremendous velocity?

At 120 mph, WW, it probably would. But then it has one wing attached to it, so there are some aerodynamics involved too. Which I know was your point and thank you for feeding me the line.

The drone, if that's waht it was and if it was shot down may also have been in a sycamore seed configuration and, therefore able to land on an Iranian cranium without causing so much as a bump.

I don't know what exactly it is that you are smoking but may I carefully suggest to reduce the dose ?! :E

On a more serious note:

Re terminal velocity:
If we take a cannonball we have a Force resulting from gravity which is
m x g which gives a gravtitational Force of 4/3x Pi x r^3 x Rho (Steel) (~8.000 kg/m^3) x 9,81 m/s^2 and an opposing Force of drag being Rho (Air) (1,2kg/m^3) /2 x Cw x Pi x r^2 x v^2.
Cw for a ball between 0,2 and 0,4.

Lets assume 0,4 as a conservative number:

This yields: 660 x sqrt (r) = V term (in m/s)
Cannonball with 4 inch diameter:
=> Vterm ~ 150m/s = 335 mph.
2 inch : Vterm ~ 105m/s = 235mph.

So there is no universal terminal velocity even for a cannonball (even when neglecting Reynolds dependency of Cw which is not exactly true, for a ball Re will reduce to 1/3rd at high Reynolds numbers).

"I don't know what exactly it is that you are smoking but may I carefully suggest to reduce the dose ?! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ilies/evil.gif"

That was my exact thought when I read SAM's post.

Henra - this is Pprune.

How Dare you use Maths, Science and Sense - especially on this thread.

We are actually discussing SAM's real identity as Head of Black Ops. Mossad.
and not as I call he - the Uber-Walt

Nope. Didn't get any of that. And Reynold's number was Watford 34526.

Excluding today, nine days until we face SAM's clear and present danger; I'm sure those pesky Iranians are planning some patriot games to keep the west on its toes. On the other hand, time is on their side, and they could draw out all this tension without remorse until......October (or so I read when I hunted for it); it will surely add to the sum of all fears.

Sorry, getting a bit silly and carried away by the real world (of T Clancy), rather than SAM's fantasy version.

M2 - you nicked that last bit from an Air Clues article (about QFIing) published about 30 (or more) years ago.;)

Mister B

SAM

Are you the 13yr old grandson of a bloke who used to work with cold war SAMs who likes listening to grandads stories a little too closely for his mental health but has no real knowledge of the world bar what he reads in bad newspaper articles and should pay as much attention to science lessons as he does to grandpa?

Maybe?

If the Israelis attack in your timeframe SAM I will eat my hat, and for good measure - any hat of your choosing too

SAM
first time I've heard a suggestion that Israel has enhanced radiation warheads, or that its submarines are nuclear armed. Whats your source for those?
And what makes you think diesel-electric subs are noisy?

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I have been following this thread and also the one about the USA hypersonic glider programme to enable them to deliver conventional weapons within an hour. What is wrong with conventional MIRVs ? Are they not allowed, not accurate enough or what ?

jd

There is stuff about Israeli Navy's nuclear capability on wikipedia, for what it's worth.

In fairness JDW speculates the Dolphin subs may be part of Israels 2nd strike capability.

Defence Security Report

God forbid they unleash non-fatal attacks. Lets face it, Syria's armed forces are fairly pre-occupied at the moment and in no position to participate in another doomed-to-fail military venture against Israel.

As for Iran, I'm sure the Israelis, Yanks, Brits, Saudis etc etc are working feverishly behind the scenes to drive a wedge between the turbaned one and the poison dwarf. Give it a few months and hopefully the whole regime will come crashing down a la Libya, without a shot being fired or nuke being dropped in anger.

jamesdevice wrote

The story started with speculation that Israel had been testing Popeye Turbos from one of their subs in the Indian Ocean during 2000. Many people just accept it as fact when there is no real evidence.

Popeye Turbo - Israel Special Weapons

Oh for goodness sakes SAM, we read your old posts, we read your new posts - they contradict each other.

Even I know Israel does not have 10 times our nuke capabilty.
Also the politics of a pissy PM against uncle sam would not even come close to the monies that would have to be paid to LM (IIRC) over the loss of the Trident platform missile.

SHARED rocket. OUR Warhead, now bugger off back to your tinfoil beanie...

Cornish
"SHARED rocket. OUR Warhead, now bugger off back to your tinfoil beanie..."

Hold on, he can't bugger off yet, he's got 2 bets to pay up on in a few days time.

His ranting and ravings are getting worse.
"Every boy/man has to do many months of National Service - & just like Switzerland - they can keep an automatic weapon in their home."

and just what does that have to do with the Big Blu and Israel or the US conducting any sort of strike on Iran and it's nuclear facilities ?

SAM, go take another chill pill and I'll see you on the 15th - and then I am off into the wild's of Northern Australia, as far away from telephones, TV, SAMXXV, his rants and any possible war while you wait for the Mushroom clouds to develop (although Obama just stuffed that up by basing Marines and other nice aircraft up there and making it a target).

Reminds me of the time we were picnicking in the woods near Chateau Chambord. My wife suddenly leapt up, holding the top of her head, howling in anguish and saying something had hit her very hard, causing considerable pain. We came to the conclusion that an acorn had fallen from one of the (very tall) oak trees towering over the picnic area. Ever since, the incident has been described as her 'Chicken Little' moment by our sons.

OK, back on-topic. My bunker is ready in case Sam's worst predication comes to pass. Tickets available at very reasonable rates.

There you go. Acorn, no wing(s). Sycamore, wings. Just realised that earlier I stated that a sycamore seed has one wing - of course I was thinking of an Ash seed. Can't believe that I didn't get pulled apart for that one, but too late now!!!

So, everything has a terminal velocity in freefall, it's just different for everything. Oh, and SAM, that wasn't Newton.

Back to the thread, we appear to have moved on from Big BLU against Iran to Bunker Busters followed by nukes DOWN THE SAME HOLES. Holy crap, I want to see that done!

Right, here's a better plot. Iran joins NATO. Israel and the US bomb them. The rest of NATO is obliged to retaliate (an attack against one is an attack against all) and we're into WWIII. And to think we thought it would be the Cold War that was going to do that. Asking for suggestions for the tilte of my new book.

If the three minute warning goes off I will be downing a couple of bottles of Cab Sauv to protect me. I'm sure Chateau Chambord* would substitute if required.

Oh, be glad you weren't picnicking 'neath a coconut tree.








*whether or not there is a Chateau Chambord is irrelevant, and more importantly not funny.

M2
"Asking for suggestions for the tilte of my new book". With you latest ravings, the title should be:-

"I have the same problem as SAMXXV":O


Willard
Lucky he wasn't picnicking in Australia, they might have had a drop bear drop on them:O

OOOooh. Nasty.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lm...dqgbo1_400.jpg

Have you seen how big they have become ? That's why I carry a big bore nowadays but I've still got to add one to the collection :O

http://australianmuseum.net.au/Uploa.../dropbear1.jpg

This thread has gone from Dropping Big Blus to Big Drop Bears in 6 pages.

As long as it doesn't drift to big bear droppings.

Do Bears S**t in the woods?!:ok:

FB:)