OneFifty,

"OSB(ATC) and ABM are soon to be one in the same."

Won't that be a tad confusing? One half of the branch task will be to keep aircraft apart, while the other half will be doing precisely the opposite. Training will be fun...

I did hear rumours that it has been considered (joining the two) but that was as far as it had got.

It is oasc phase 2 next month.:eek:

Muppet/150, I know that, but even people serving still think of them by their original titles. To the uninitated OSB and ABM are just TLAs. Admittedly an applicant will have research both trades and be well versed in the differences.

Canada have combined the branches (ATC & FC) for many years. It's only the initial training which is common, then people rarely move from one specialisation to another .....

...... rather like aircrew!

Cazatou - probably depends on how may legs they have - but French court or UK?

advice/help.
 

Hi all,
I'm fairly new to this so please excuse me if I make any obvious mistakes.
I'm aware that you may have had quite a few people in my situation contacting you on this matter so I'll try and keep it to the point as much as I can.
I wish to become a pilot in the RAF (there's always one! ;)) I'm currently on the verge of finishing my A-levels in Geography, Film Studies and Systems and Control (design technology) predicted grades are BBB, hopefully looking at ABB. I have a B in maths at GCSE and in English, A's in Electronics and Additional Science at GCSE and a B in Science at GCSE level. I'm not planning on going to university as I didn't take Physics or Maths at A-level, and imp really not sure how I would get on at university. I have looked into UAS's but again, i'm just not sure about university. I have a part time job to provide at least some work experience, I've been in the air cadets, done GIC's and my bronze D of E then swapped to my local Army CCF, due to family problems. I stayed there for 5 years. I've been on visits to Brize Norton and Shawbury organised off my own back, and also I'm currently having a few basic flying lessons to boost my hours.
I'm hell-bent on getting in as a pilot or WSOp. I'm aware that the recruitment freeze in still in process but for how much longer. all I want is a date! I've tried to organise visits to Coningsby and Valley, but both said that I would need an interview date at OASC after my initial interview at the AFCO.

Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.
Many Thanks.

OASC 'CANDIDATES' and WANNABES, PLEASE READ THIS THREAD FIRST! (NEW THREAD)
 

BPJ36,

I was in a similar situation a few years back as I originally after school, I planned on joining direct as a WSOp. Unfortunately I had a few academic set backs. Once that was all done, I applied in September 2010.
Unfortunately I failed the AST by very few marks ( but marks are marks and I didn't make the cut) it would be an understatement to say that I was disappointed.

Now that they have increased the GCSE mathematics grade, I am tempted to apply as another trade and work my way up in 5-6 years.

However, I am still working on increasing my current GCSE grade to at least a B as I still want to apply as a DE WSOp.

I apologise that I have drifted of your original topic, but truthfully, it boils down to what you want more.
Do you want a commission or would you be happy with being a SNCO?

I have done exactly the same as you, I have visited a few RAF bases, all of my own back.

Most bases won't allow it due to operational requirements - which is totally understandable.

Best of luck in what you decide to do.

NDW.

This is basically just a filter process. The AFCO interview will filter out those with no academic potential and the OASC date will prove interest. That said, a nephew at age 15, was offered a weeks work experience with the RN. All he had to do was get himself to Gibraltar where he joined HMS Daring for the passange home.

So, if you don't ask you don't get.

Good luck, but if you're looking for quick answers with dates to a very complex question of politics and policy, you may be disappointed. I don't think you can really do any more than you are doing just now - shoot for your dreams, and don't accept a job doing anything else with the promise of a cross-over in branches later. It's certainly a possibility, and plenty of people have done it, but could take years and you might miss your opportunity due to other service commitments. You sound like you've got a few years yet before your time runs out - volunteer at big airshows? Join the RAF Reserves?

NDW,
Yes I can see where your coming from about applying as another trade and working your way up. I too have considered this, but as the pilot role is solely a commission then I believe that it would take quite a long time for me to achieve that in another role. If I really asked myself then I know that the answer would be a commission, but if the WSOp role did come up I'd jump at the chance to take it as from what I've seen it's a great job, and well that's my main reason for joining. Not the money, it's the job, environment/encouragement/mates that you get along the way. Best of luck to you to in your future goals, hard work and determination will get you there.

PN,
Thanks for the heads up, very true if you don't ask you don't get. I'll just have to be patient to visit the other bases!

BPJ

JaneLP
Could you give me any information on volunteering at the big airshows? This might be a good thing for me to do whilst the role opens up.
Many thanks once again for all your help!
BPJ

BPJ,

Re-volunteering. First I guess you would need to be close to an airshow unless you can get accommodation. As far as the military air shows all the volunteers that I know would be air cadets. The advantage, from the air show organisers point of view, is that the air cadets are trained and vetted to some extent.

On your own you would be an unknown quantity.

The other air show way is to find some air show participants and see if they can use a volunteer - cleaning the aircraft for instance.

Have a look at Flypast magazine that should give you some clues.

Can anyone confirm the current form of the fitness test at OASC?

I'm hearing contradictions between treadmill run and the MSFT. Can anyone one shed any light?

It's on a treadmill.

Hi,
At the moment i am 14 and looking to join the RAF as a pilot (yes another hopefull but this time more determined).I was wondering what the appropriate attire for your first AFCO meeting would be.casual or smart?.I understand the situation of RAF pilot recruitment at the moment and in the coming future but still remain hopeful as i hope to go to uni to study Aeronautical engineering (not a mickey mouse degree) which would mean that my application would at 21 so in 2019 or 2020.I am in the RAF CCF and have logged 1 hour 15 minutes in the grob tutur (with about 50 minutes of that being with me at the controls,as my instructor skipped most of the novice BS and sent us straight into loops and barrel rolls).

At 14 you still have a way to go. So if by 'first AFCO meeting' you mean just popping in to say hi and pick up pamphlets etc you can get away with pretty much anything. If I recall, I was mooching around in jeans and t-shirt when I happened to pop in on the spur of the moment for the various branch brochures all those years ago.

But anything other than that, then I'd forget the casual look and go for at least smart or semi-smart. Remember the military - and especially the training enviornment - is more formal than the rest of society and what is considered acceptable on a daily basis in civvie street won't necessarily cut it. So if you are talking about interviews, then a suit would be the safe option. Failing that, then jacket and tie or if in the summer smart trousers, shoes and shirt / jacket combo without the tie - known as Planters Rig in the Officers' Messes would probably be fine. If you make it to OASC, it's a suit all the way.

Oh and it doesn't need to be an expensive suit, just make sure it isn't too shiny and modern - opt for style over fashion. M+S is a good bet for relatively inexpensive and fairly traditional suits. Leave the ill-fitting shiny ones to the mobile phone salesmen.:ok:

PS - don't choose a degree on the basis of what you think the RAF would like you to do, choose one you will enjoy doing and think you will be successful in. That way, you will actually enjoy your time at university and get the most out of it. Unless you want to be an Engineering Officer (or Lawyer / Medic), the RAF couldn't give a monkey's what subject you study as long as you pass. As I said to my interviewer when he asked why I hadn't gone to Oxford or Cambridge with my grades, I told him I thought university was about developing as an individual as well as getting a degree and I didn't think I would do much developing sitting in a library for 3 years. He seemed fairly happy with that as a reason.

OASC 'CANDIDATES' and WANNABES, PLEASE READ THIS THREAD FIRST! (NEW THREAD)
 

Melchett01 priceless advice there.

I remember when I went for my AST for WSOp, there was only two of us taking the test.

Me, I was wearing; Shirt (with creases) Tie (Windsor knot), trousers (with creases) and polished shoes. I felt confident and overall smart.

The other candidate turned up in muddy jeans and a green hoodie (I thought they were taking the biscuit at first, but it soon turned out they weren't)

Even though both of us didn't pass the test (which I an still shameful of to this day), I was told to reapply for the role after the six months had surpassed and after speaking to the other candidate they were asked not to. So, I don't know whether it was because of the scores or if it was on personal presentation - either way 'Dress smart'.

Best of luck with your venture

Mr
 

"I only got two C's and B"


Quite agree, who needs to learn the effects of controls and how to take off and land etc. Get straight into flying upside down the other stuff isn't important.

Oh Ratty, Ratty , Ratty, my dear Ratty. When trying to be funny about someone else's educational qualifications, it does help if you don't make rudimentary grammatical errors in your post.

Note to all wannabes - please note Ratty's incorrect use of the possessive apostrophe. It's something that you should get to grips with if you don't want your coursework at Cranwell to come back covered in red pen.

Oh Melchett01, Melchett01, Melchett01, my dear Melchett01. When trying to be funny about someones else's rudimentary grammatical mistakes, it does help if you don't make rudimentary grammatical errors in your post.

Note to all wannabes - please note Melchett01's incorrect use of a double space after the second "ratty" and the comma. It's something that you should get to grips with if you don't want your coursework at Cranwell to come back covered in red pen.

Further note to everyone. Sometimes pedantry's funny. Sometimes it's just chuffing annoying. Especially when it's from people who pertain to be those you look to for advice.
As for the coursework at Cranwell, don't fret, it's an absolute doddle.

Spot on. Certainly at the AFCO stage and at your age you are not expected to have a suit etc. Smart casual should be clean, pressed, and properly worn. Button down collars should be buttoned down. Shoes clean and if laced properly tied. A tie should be properly knotted. The shirt should be inside the trousers which in turn should be round your waist not your bum.

If look at what I have said it is about how you are dressed not what you are dressed in. If you have shoulder length hair and designer stubble that is not a problem either provided it is clean and tidy. Again how and not what.

If you are accepted your flight sergeant will sort out the stubble and the station barber will sort out the hair :)

P_N,

Unfortunately some future candidates (hopefully me (again)) shouldn't have to worry about the hair problem as at the age of 20 with my horrific receding hairline, I've already cut it to number 1 length.

With long(ish) hair, I have a peak like count dracula and just look idiotic :}.

Off topic slightly ^.

I think if I was his IOT Flt Cdr I would heve recommended his re-course by now!

I wish that my IOT Flt Cdr had been recoursed! He was this w:mad:r from the RAF Regiment who managed to impart in me a specific dislike of his Corps and a more general dislike of the Air Force. He was an out-and-out bully and the main reason why I left.

Hi, i'm 14 and looking to join some aspect of the forces, although still early stages, hopefully as a pilot in the RAF. But I was interested to find out whether the RAF still issue sidearms to pilots entering combat?

In a word, yes.

and in another word, why?

BTW, I have always wondered why they issue side-arms. On the ground at home base yes, but lying in some desert, unless it is to shoot yourself, why?

Last time I heard of a pistol being uses was back in the 50s or 60s, in the jungle to attract the rescue party.

just out of interest really. Could it be used possibly for hunting animals/ survival?

OASC 'CANDIDATES' and WANNABES, PLEASE READ THIS THREAD FIRST! (NEW THREAD)
 

Well if it had to be used in a survival situation I would have thought that it could be used for hunting.

The only animal likely to come within range of a pistol will probably be dead. Of course it could be used to scare a polar bear except I don't believe they issue pistols in Canada which, AFAIK, is still friendly.

The only thing you will probably be able to hit with any accuracy is your buddy or yourself.

PS

You are unlikely to be in a survival situation on modern operations. You will either be rescued pdq or go into evasion mode. Hunting will be the last thing on your mind.

Personally I would have preferred a parang, machette, or a sterling SMG :)

Daily Mail Strikes Again
 

Congratulations Miss Wilson it is a good job you do not want to become a journalist.

RAF aircrew sidearms issue
 

OK, so it was a few years ago, but sidearms were issued for the Balkans conflict. As other posts say, we were expected to be picked up by CSAR fairly quickly - and they would be heavily armed. The most likely use was probably against dogs which might have been used to hunt downed aircrew. I for one was a little envious of our American colleagues who carried a proper weapon (Colt 45 auto) that could do some damage; they carried these on exercises in Alaska as well. To quote a briefing: "Just remember if you eject out here you are not top of the food chain." The best option is not to use it unless you really have to. The usual joke was that throwing your Walther at the enemy was more effective than trying to shoot them.

Many, many apologies if this plea for help has been made (many) times before. My son got his GCSE results today & thank god, got the necessary in order to apply for the RAF as a Weapons Systems Operator.

From what he gathers, it's a good idea to get some work done on the Aptitude Tests before the real thing. I appreciate there are some on the RAF website but does anybody have any pointers as to where he can find a source of practise papers?

Any other handy hints as to how he should prepare himself would also be gratefully received.

Many thanks.

AFAIK the aptitude tests are largely computer based and really you have it or you don't.

One has to ask though, why is he limiting himself tp WSOp unless he does not plan to take any A-levels?

As a straight GCSE man he will be in competition with a fair number of more academically qualified applicants. That said, a 1st class degree in underwater basket weaving or mathematics at Cambridge does not mean an automatic acceptance.

OASC 'CANDIDATES' and WANNABES, PLEASE READ THIS THREAD FIRST! (NEW THREAD)
 

Firstly, congratulations to your son.

There are many books around that can supply practice tests for the AST (Airman Selection Test) that your son would have to take as the first stage of his application. It would be undertaken at your local AFCO.

Have a look on google/amazon for any books. There are a few by Richard McMunn (some I have purchased myself).

As many will also say, Aptitude is one of those things you either have or you don't.

In my case, I didn't pass for WSOp first time but I am patiently waiting for the next time it will open for Applications.

As I'm sure you're son is aware that WSOp isn't recruiting at the moment and it doesn't look like it for the foreseeable future.

Get him to keep his fitness up, keep up with current affairs/world news.

The very best of luck to him.

everynowandthen,

As PN suggested, aptitude tests are largely about innate skills, but that's not to say you can't hone what skills you already have. No doubt there are books out there dealing with aptitude testing and they might be useful in terms of general mental agility. From what I can remember all those years ago, coordination was probably the bit I found hardest.

If your son has a games console, that might help some on the coordination front - I'm sure there has been plenty of research done discussing how games consoles can improve hand-eye coordination. But that is just one part of the tests. Many people find the maths and capacity tests hard - I found them to be easier, but then I had just come from a numerate postgrad science degree.

Your son should improve his ability to deal with speed / distance / time calculations - they are a big part of not just the aptitudes, but the rest of the selection procedure. There are short cuts e.g. x mph = y minutes per mile and knowing those off by heart makes life easier. Also knowing some maths short cuts will make it easier to recognise right / wrong answers in multiple choice tests e.g. odd no. x even no. = even no, X per cent of Y is the same as Y per cent of X etc. And the ability to cope with remembering increasingly long strings of random numbers will be a handy skill to have.

But don't just focus on aptitides; personal qualities are vital and without them, scoring off the charts means nothing. A friend of mine now flies civvie airliners out of London City because although he was a natural pilot, he wasn't considered to have the right officer qualities. The same applies for NCO aircrew - almost more so. They will come in half way up the non-commissioned rank range and go straight into the WOs' & Sgts' Mess at 20/21 whilst many others have had to slog their way through 20 years to make it there; therefore they will be expected to live up to the standards of a SNCO from the outset rather than learning and growing into the rank.

RAF Aux
 

Good Afternoon,

I've not posted on Pprune for a while now and the search engine hasnt been much help. So I was wondering if there were any RAF Aux people on here that could give me a PM (or Post) on life in the Raf Aux and the pro's and con's of joining ?

I'm from the Gatwick area and as I have a CT background so I'm interested in an INTEL post with 600 Sqn.

Many Thanks !

BIG MISTER
........Still Missing the Christmas 'Gatbash's'....Pls bring them back ! ! ! ! :}

WSOP WANNABEES- FORGET IT...
 

I don't mean to bring people down, but you guys should all stop waiting for WSOp to re-open.

1. The last round of Personal Training Plans issued to current WSOp trainees by 22 (Trg) Gp gave many of them an arrival date on the front line of 2018. These PTP are currently under review with the dates expected to move to the right...

2. There are no SENSOR vacancies because - All the flying posts on RJ, Sentry, Reaper, Shadow and Sentinel are full. It is also possible that Shadow and Sentinel wont survive beyond the end of the Afghan commitment (according to SDSR 2010)

3. There are no FIXED-WING (Truckie) vacancies because - Many of the crewman on RAF Merlins are now without a job and are transferring to C130 C17 etc.

4. There are no ROTARY vacancies because - The 50+ trainees referred to at point 1 are going to be blocking the pipeline for several years.


5. There are no NAVIGATOR vacancies either.


In summary - apply for Pilot. There is no other option for several years.

If you don't get RAF Pilot, why not try the RN or Army.

I say again - WSOp is shut TFN and you could go grey waiting.


CS:)

To further camelspyyder's post I have a friend who was in the WSOp trg pipeline and was offered either a 5 year hold before starting WSOp trg or rebranch to a ground trade. Funnily enough they took the rebranch.

So I can confirm he's not lying with the 2018 CR projection.

As for Pilot, the guys right at the back of the pipeline are looking at coming out of their OCU 2017-18, but due to the longer trg time it's looking like it shouldn't be too long before Pilot opens up again - within a year? That's my personal speculation, mind.

Many thanks for your replies & also apologies for not saying thank you earlier. They've all been passed on.

He actually had intended to apply for Pilot but was under the impression that hell would freeze before that opened. He therefore is applying for WSOp with the intention of getting a few more academic qualifications from within the RAF & some experience, with a view to applying for Pilot at a later date. He was also (mistakenly it seems) under the impression that recruitment would be opening within a few months.

His alternative to all of the above would be ATC.