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-   -   OFFICER and AIRCREW 'CANDIDATES' PLEASE READ THIS THREAD FIRST! (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/405176-officer-aircrew-candidates-please-read-thread-first.html)

PPRuNe Pop 9th Feb 2010 22:38

OFFICER and AIRCREW 'CANDIDATES' PLEASE READ THIS THREAD FIRST!
 
This a new thread. Enjoy!

OASC 15th Feb 2010 16:13

OASC Bulletin 1
 
User name ‘OASC’ is a new member to the PPRuNe forum website. It represents the Officer and Aircrew Selection Centre (OASC) and will provide official comment from the RAF about officers and aircrew selection. The OASC has decided to become a member of this forum site because we want to give users, who are interested in a career in the RAF, clear and accurate information in response to general questions that regularly arise. We will monitor this ‘sticky’ to get a flavour of the issues that people have about the OASC selection process and related issues. We will then collate the themes and publish generic statements on a periodic basis, which should give users clear guidance. Obviously, we won’t be able to respond to all issues straight away but, over time, the ‘sticky’ will accumulate a significant amount of valuable information. However, it should be noted that policy does change from time to time and therefore information submitted will be correct at the time of submission – but we will update it when appropriate to do so; moreover, the information provided is for guidance only. Although we are eager to generate clear and accurate advice on a general basis, we will not engage with individuals on personal issues; we recommend that any such matters be taken up directly with the nearest Armed Forces Careers Office (AFCO). We hope that this initiative will be useful and informative.

Romeo Kilo 16th Feb 2010 12:10

Ambiguity
 
It has been said that an attribute of a leader in the Royal Air Force is the ability to "handle ambiguity". Ironically, this statement in itself seems a little ambiguous. My questions are:

1) What sort of situations involve this ambiguity?
2) Are there any examples?
3) What does this mean from the point of view of OASC candidates, IOT Off Cdts, and junior officers within the Royal Air Force.
4) Why is this attribute so important.

Thanks for any help...

RK

Pontius Navigator 16th Feb 2010 13:19


Originally Posted by Romeo Kilo (Post 5515619)
It has been said that an attribute of a leader in the Royal Air Force is the ability to "handle ambiguity". Ironically, this statement in itself seems a little ambiguous. My questions are:

1) What sort of situations involve this ambiguity?

Any situation that involves choice.


2) Are there any examples?
Do you take action A which might ensure minimum risk to your own forces or action B that might minimise risk of collateral casualties but pose a higher risk to own forces. The ambiguity may arise from your orders to minimise risk to own forces whereas international law imposes a duty to avoid causing unnecessary civilian casualties.


3) What does this mean from the point of view of OASC candidates, IOT Off Cdts, and junior officers within the Royal Air Force.
One step at a time. At OASC you may be given a situation and directed to form a plan. Your plan must address all the criteria given but the criteria may include ambiguities. It is for you to identify these and make your assessment of the best course of action. There may well be no correct solution or several possible solutions.


4) Why is this attribute so important.
It will and enable you to issue unambiguous orders so that your intentions are carried out accuratly and keep you legal.

Braddersb 16th Feb 2010 14:35

Does the selection process for RAF sixth form scholarship still involve the 3 days at OASC. The 2007 forms about it on the website say that candidates do, however I've heard that for the last couple of years, the OASC stage doesn't happen any more. Could you tell me if it still goes on? Thanks

risk is adventure 17th Feb 2010 00:28

WSOp recruitment
 
Dear OASC

I am currently in the recruitment process for WSOp, hopefully crewman, (presentation in May). I am really excited at the opportunity to join the RAF. However I have noticed a few forum posts over various military sites that RAF has stopped recruiting WSOp until maybe January 2011. My careers office did not mention anything on time of application.

Is this true or is it dependant on individual applicants. For example if RAF think you are not suitable then they advise that the branch is closed for applications, but remain open to successful candidates?

Any official comment on this would be great. Also if you could comment on eyesight requirements for WSOp that would be great too.

Thankyou

Chris

OneFifty 17th Feb 2010 19:10

Risk_Is_Adventure

The Weekly Recruitment Brief number 05/10, dated 12 Feb 10, sent out to all AFCO's, states that all WSOp applications, unless they had been handed off to OASC, are to be discontinued. The WSOp branch will remain closed 'for the foreseeable future'. Applicants are to be advised of other branches that are currently open (ATC being mentioned), otherwise they are to be directed back to register with Call Credit (The 0845 number) to register their interest for WSOp and to expect a very long wait.

JaymieClifford 17th Feb 2010 19:50


The Weekly Recruitment Brief number 05/10, dated 12 Feb 10, sent out to all AFCO's, states that all WSOp applications, unless they had been handed off to OASC, are to be discontinued. The WSOp branch will remain closed 'for the foreseeable future'. Applicants are to be advised of other branches that are currently open (ATC being mentioned), otherwise they are to be directed back to register with Call Credit (The 0845 number) to register their interest for WSOp and to expect a very long wait.
I just enquired about joining as WSOp.

Got told that, and was told to expect an email when the position is recruited again.

Any idea how long that might be? The chap on the phone told me 'Shouldn't be to long, this is a position we usually recruit year-round. So this is being done so current applicants can be dealt with'. Any further details abotu how long anyone?

Was probably the biggest phone call of my life and I am dissapointed at the wait.

Any help is genuinly apprieciated,
Jaymie Clifford.

OneFifty 18th Feb 2010 06:30

As the brief said, it will be closed for the foreseeable future but there is HOPE that it MAY re-open sometime around May/June 2010. (There are 168 applicants in the system handed over to OASC at the minute with currently only 20 slots available). Once you register with the Careers Line, you will get application forms E-mailed to you but only when the branch becomes available again.

Couzins52 19th Feb 2010 20:57

Questions
 
Hi guys, would just like to ask a few questions concerning joining as aircrew. I have 5 gcses all at B grades (includes English and maths) Im currently studing physics, geography and psychology as levels. I'm really not enjoying college. Should I carry on and get the a levels or drop out and join up?

1. What is the timescale of the application process

2. What are good tips for during the application process?

Thanks guys

Pontius Navigator 20th Feb 2010 10:37


Originally Posted by Couzins52 (Post 5523128)
joining as aircrew.

5 gcses all at B grades (includes English and maths)

currently studing . . .

I think I know what you want us to say. Well part of the answer already lies in the messages immediately above this one.

If you read the other closed thread that will probably answer the rest of your questions.

Just one final question for you. How does 'drop out' demonstrate perseverance and academic ability?

OneFifty 21st Feb 2010 11:54

It is slightly concerning the amount of people wishing to be told what they should do. The only person that can decide which is the best course of action for them is themselves! No one here will tell you that you should leave uni or stay at uni or anything else. Only YOU can make that decision.

However, out of the thousands of applications for pilot received at the AFCOs, only a few will actually get there. Are those odds worth dumping your degree for? If you are doing an engineering degree, have you considered Engineering Officer? Have you trawled through the information on the previous, now closed thread? Have you spoken to anyone at an AFCO to determine whether you are eligible to make an application to the RAF in the first place? That may make your decision for you!

airborne_artist 21st Feb 2010 12:23


I have problems with the University Life
All the Services are looking for people who can make the best of the situation they find themselves in - if you are having problems "with the university life" is it likely you'll find something big to whinge about when you are in a blue suit?

My advice - man up, get the degree and apply to the RAF in your third year. Leaving now, with the high probability of not getting past OASC will leave you up the proverbial watercourse with no means of propulsion.

Pontius Navigator 21st Feb 2010 12:23


Originally Posted by anom2761 (Post 5525736)
I have problems with the University Life,

Interesting statement. What form do these problems take? What makes you certain that these problems will not occur in a military environment?

The essence of a military career is variety and many times being made to do things and act in a way, that given a free choice, that you would never do as a civilian.

If I was interviewing someone that had dropped out of whatever I would need to be convinced that it was for the right reasons.

airborne_artist 21st Feb 2010 12:26

PN - Snap!

risk is adventure 21st Feb 2010 14:23

I would say uni life is way easier than military life. So if your having problems with uni life then..........????

airborne_artist 21st Feb 2010 17:32


then think about doing a degree through Military OUni
Which is probably a lot harder than doing a degree at university with no other pressures. Don't forget that graduates get three years seniority on joining, so they are paid £28,000 pa from the day they join.

Mr C Hinecap 21st Feb 2010 18:04

anom - I joined without a degree. My advice to you - get a degree before you join. Do it when you are supposed to and not when you think you'll have time. You won't.

Aerouk 21st Feb 2010 18:21

Get your education out of the way first mate, it's easier when you're younger. I've got 4months left of my degree then I'm going to march into the AFCO and get things rolling.

I've hated University but I'm so glad I've finished it, I've done a lot of great things. I don't think University is hard, it's the motivation which is the hard part.

Pontius Navigator 21st Feb 2010 19:37

Aerouk, good advice but one for you. Don't wait for 4 months and join the herd. Go now.

OneFifty 21st Feb 2010 20:09

Agree with PN. With only 4 months to go, it is a good idea to start the ball rolling now. Off to the AFCO! By the left.....

Aerouk 22nd Feb 2010 21:50

I went to the AFCO last year and they pretty much told me not to bother until I had finished my degree, although it wasn't an officer that told me that.

I'm trying to get my fitness levels and maths skills up, I've been using a calculator for far too long! Once I feel ready I'm going to push on with the application.

Pontius Navigator 23rd Feb 2010 07:07

Aerouk, that was last year. You are now well in sight of your degree. At the time they were hardly likely to say come back 11 weeks before the end of your course.

And for everyone else too.

The same holds good for A-levels. People apply to university based on expected grades. The Services use exactly the same criteria. If you are good enough then you may get a qualified acceptance - simple.

There is a risk that you (I am talking generally) don't get the A-levels, so why would they go to the trouble of assessing you early?

Two reasons:

a. To 'capture' a good qualitity candidate before they are snapped up elsewhere.

b. To smooth out the assessment process at OASC.

OASC 23rd Feb 2010 13:12

OASC Bulletin 2
 
During this submission we will address 3 areas raised in, or related to, recent posts: the Weapon System Operator (WSOp) branch, the Sixth Form Scholarship and Bursary Scheme - and the academic qualification and age limits for application to the RAF.

WSOp Branch


This option is closed for the Financial Year 11/12. However, it is important that those who aspire to join the WSOp Branch continue to register their interest with the AFCOs and thence to the CIL so that when the branch re-opens they are well placed to react and apply quickly.

Sixth Form Scholarship

The RAF Sixth Form Scholarship still exists, although the competition for this year is closed. The scheme is now administered through the AFCOs, and there is no requirement to attend the OASC.

The Defence Sixth Form College, Welbeck

Year 11 students may wish to consider RAF sponsorship through the Defence Sixth Form College (DSFC), Welbeck. The DSFC educates students from all backgrounds to achieve their ambitions to become Engineering or Logistics officers in the RAF. It is one of the top performing sixth form colleges in the country with exceptional results at A-level. The tuition is paid for by the Ministry of Defence and in addition to the state of the art facilities, leadership training opportunities are provided. To gain entry to the College, candidates will be required to attend the OASC for the standard 3-day selection process. Further details regarding the college and the scheme may be found at http://www.dsfc.ac.uk and also at the Altitude link http://www.raf.mod.uk/altitude/educationandcareers/welbeck.cfm . DSFC Scholars will move on to the Defence Technical Undergraduate Scheme (DTUS) and further information for Engineering and Logistics officers may be found in the relevant job section at http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers/jobs .

University Sponsorship

An application for university sponsorship can be considered once you have received your AS results. Each application is initially processed through the AFCO and, subject to the A2 predicted grades (or equivalent) being strong enough to support the UCAS application to a university affiliated with a University Air Squadron (UAS), candidates may be invited to attend a 3-day selection board at OASC. Remember, this is a competition and high academic standards are required.

For those applicants entering Year 13, or already at university, the start date for awards in the 2012 academic year is 1 September 2012, with a closing date for all applications of 2 December 2011; by this date, the AFCO interview and application paperwork, including an academic reference from your school or college must be complete. The UAS Bursary Scheme award is currently £6,000, but higher awards may be available for Dental Officers. More information on UAS is at http://www.raf.mod.uk/universityairsquadrons

The DTUS provides a higher award for Engineers and Logisticians at participating universities. Confirmation of an award is delayed until A2 results are announced and the university place is confirmed. Further sponsorship for Medical and Dental officers is available through the Cadetship Scheme and details are available on the RAF Careers web site.

For the Financial Year 11/12, new sponsorship awards will be limited to Engineering, Logistics, Medical and Dental Branches. The number of places in a given university graduation year will be limited and competition will be fierce.

Academic Qualifications and Age Limits


For information regarding age limits and academic qualifications for the various branches on offer in the RAF, please consult the RAF Careers website http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers. Candidates need to be aware that the GCSE Maths requirement has been raised to Grade B or better for the aptitude branches (Pilot, Air Traffic Control (including Senior Non-Comissioned Officer), Aerospace Battle Manager, Intelligence and WSOp/WSOp(L). Also, the A-level criteria have been raised to a minimum of 2 A2 subjects at Grade C or above (excluding General Studies and Critical Thinking).

Please note that, although OASC will endeavour to answer generic questions that arise, we will not be engaging or commenting on individual cases. In those cases, the individual is advised to contact their nearest AFCO who will be able to deal with any queries. All information published is for information only.

Information regarding a career in the RAF can be found at http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers

OneFifty 23rd Feb 2010 22:38

aeroUK, You've had since last year to get your fitness levels up... why have you left it until now to worry about it?! Also, you make a point that it wasn't an officer that told you to wait until you had your degree. Does that matter? The officers do exactly the same recruiting course as the corporal careers advisers. Normally, at your first call to the AFCO, it would be the corporals you would speak to as a matter of course anyway and their advice given by them is equally as valid. (And are you sure you weren’t advised to return to the AFCO TOWARDS the end of your degree, not when you had actually completed it, as that is the usual advise given and the line the advisors are given.)

Aerouk 24th Feb 2010 00:54

OneFifty,

Thanks for your reply.

When I attended the AFCO (I'm going down the RN route) I asked her about joining as an officer, qualifications, pay etc. and she just didn't seem to know a lot of the answers so I assumed that perhaps the NCOs dealt with certain types of roles and the officers dealt with officer roles. I was able to speak to a recruitment officer by email and he answered a lot of my questions. Sadly all I got from AFCO was a brochure and told to come back once I had my degree.

Perhaps it was my fault, I was extremely nervous on the day! Dream job and all that...

In terms of my fitness levels, I attended the AFCO last November but I've been doing my fitness training for a long time. I'm currently serving with another uniformed service so need to keep fit for that, I'm just wanting to work on it over the next couple of months especially during the summer.

Kreuger flap,

I studied Law at University.

Aerouk 24th Feb 2010 17:24


Sorry AeroUk I am a bit confused now. So you have a degree then. So why not apply now? Is the Royal Navy careers website not good enough to answer a lot of your questions?
Apologies for the confusion.

In theory, I have my degree but I'm finishing my hons year at the moment.


Are you in the TA?
No, I'm not in the TA.

airborne_artist 25th Feb 2010 17:19


I am guessing if it is not the TA it must be the RauxAF or the RNR?
Could be also the RMR of course.


You have an LL.B in Law and you are staying on for a fourth year in order to get an honours degree? Which University are you studying at?
Scottish universities only award ordinary degrees after three years. Honours degrees take four years.


Can I ask why you are not bothering to pursue a career in Law, as the benefits will be greater in the long run?
Just what are the benefits of being a lawyer? :E

FWIW the second straight-through SHAR pilot was a qualified barrister before he saw the light and joined the FAA. He went on to become a grand-fromage in the defence aviation sector.

Aerouk 25th Feb 2010 18:19

I've never considered a career within the legal industry and never will. I didn't plan on going to University but my parents thought it was a good idea so I went for it.

The only reason I choose Law was because I didn't fancy anything else, turns out it's good when you get into arguments with your mobile phone company - they usually back down when you pretend to know what you're talking about :}

Scotteo 26th Feb 2010 16:54

Navy/Army Pilot Height Requirements
 
Got back from OASC a couple of weeks ago whilst applying for Pilot, but unfortunetly the only thing that let me down was my height. Everything measured up except for my sitting height (858mm when 865mm is the minimum :ugh:).

However I was deemed fit for WSO although I don't want to stick with this option if Pilot is still on the cards. My question is what are the height restrictions for Navy Pilots/Army Pilot? The person I spoke to at the medical centre said they were different from the RAF but I can't seem to find them anywhere!

Any help is much appreciated

Aerouk 26th Feb 2010 17:34

RN:
Weight - 56.6- 96.5Kg

Functional Reach - Min 720mm

Sitting Height - 865 - 990mm

865 - 990mm

Buttock - Knee
560 - 660mm

Buttock- Heel
1000 - 1200mm

How tall are you just out of curiosity?

airborne_artist 26th Feb 2010 17:45

You might find that you could put on 7 mm if you get really fit - and if you are not yet 20 and male you may still be growing.

Pontius Navigator 26th Feb 2010 19:11

Anthrophomorphics is the hidden factor in aircraft design. How many of today's youth could fit in the tail turret of a Lanc or the ball turret of a B17?

Aircraft designers need to keep anthrophomorphics in the forfront of design. Women needed new flying suits and many would not fit legacy platforms or bang seat and parachute limits.

When we got the F4 (US well nourished post-war aircrew) it was supremely comfortable and spacious for UK malnourished baby boomers. How many average Brits could get in a Spitfire, or even a Canberra, today?

If you are too small, take heart, they made the aircraft bigger. If you are too big, wait for JSF :}

anom2761 26th Feb 2010 19:56

Wouldn't the Shorter Pilot be able to sustain G Forces for Longer, as the distance from the Heart to Brain Shorter. Therefore, making G Force sustainess for the Shorter Pilot eating red meat even better with G Suits of today??

Pontius Navigator 26th Feb 2010 21:34


Originally Posted by anom2761 (Post 5538473)
Wouldn't the Shorter Pilot be able to sustain G Forces for Longer, as the distance from the Heart to Brain Shorter. Therefore, making G Force sustainess for the Shorter Pilot eating red meat even better with G Suits of today??

But if he could not reach that vital switch under high gee . . . :eek:

vecvechookattack 26th Feb 2010 21:57

Why would you design an aircraft with the switches so far away?

Pontius Navigator 27th Feb 2010 09:25


Originally Posted by vecvechookattack (Post 5538683)
Why would you design an aircraft with the switches so far away?

Far away? Far away for who?

Once trained a baby nav who had to sit on one leg to give him the height to reach the switches. It was something to watch as he spent most of a flight in a semi-standing position.

airborne_artist 27th Feb 2010 09:41

Chris MacBean (RIP) had to sit on a cushion when flying the Bulldog. Didn't stop him becoming a good Beefer* though. At the time the Dog was the limiting factor in RN aircrew max sitting height.


* Beefer = QFI in Jackspeak.

OASC 1st Mar 2010 07:17

OASC Bulletin 3
 
During this submission we would like to cover the RAF Careers Information Line and the OASC fitness test.

Individuals wishing to gain information about a career in the RAF can do so by looking at the RAF Careers website, visiting their local AFCO or calling the RAF Careers Information Line. The benefits of calling the RAF Careers Information Line are outlined below.

Also, we have seen in the previous OASC ‘sticky’ that many questions arose regarding the fitness test aspect of the OASC selection process; therefore, the current fitness test is explained in detail below.


The RAF Careers Information Line

The RAF Careers Information Line has been providing RAF careers information, on behalf of the RAF, for over ten years. It provides people, who are interested in a career in the RAF, with details about entry requirements and current vacancies. Also, it enables potential candidates to make informed choices about the entry route they would like to take and ensures that they are fully aware of the educational, residency, health, fitness and joining age requirements for entry. In addition, if an individual is interested in a particular role that currently has no vacancies then the RAF Careers Information Line will take their details and email them once a vacancy becomes available. The email will contain a link to an online application form which can then be completed and submitted; then, if the applicant is successful at the initial filter process, they will be invited to their local AFCO for a formal presentation.


Fitness Test

INFORMATION REMOVED - SEE THREAD 79 FOR LATEST FITNESS POLICY

Please note that, although OASC will endeavour to answer generic questions that arise, we will not be engaging or commenting on individual cases. In those cases, the individual is advised to contact their nearest AFCO who will be able to deal with any queries. All information published is for information only.

Information regarding a career in the RAF can be found at http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers

Scotteo 1st Mar 2010 17:06

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm 163cm but it seems my torso is slightly shorter in proportion. But it does make sense, as I might not be able to see over the instrument panel in a hawk.

I'm currently 21 years old but my family are late developers and hopefully I can gain an inch or so in the next few years.

Looks like I'll continue waiting on an offer from the RAF for WSO and start practising yogo or buy one of those chinese racks to extend myself in the hope that I can re-apply when the time comes.


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