Re-application
 

Hello to all!

Just getting some general consensus on when would be a good time to resubmit my application to the RAF. My first and only visit to OASC was back in August 2008 where, unfortunately I was temporarily barred from service for 4 years due to previous medical problems. In the letter from the president of the medical board he said I would not be eligible for consideration at OASC until May 2011. What i want to know is what time does everyone think would be a good time to start the application process again, so i could get to OASC as close into May as possible. I was thinking around christmas time.

Thanks in advance,
Eddie

Eddie, good thinking. Suppose you did start in Christmas and then you tell them you had a recommendation to re-apply in May 2011 (although that is less than 3 years by my reckoning) they will either say 'come back in May' or come back in 2012, or even say no problem start now.

From their point of view they will never wish to lose a good candidate simply through a bureaucratic system.

However if the docs say 4 years the they may well mean Aug 2012. I see your dilemma.

Do remember that recruitment at the moment is as near to zero as it's likely to be, with many branches closed. Before you start thinking about when you should apply to get yourself through the door asap, talk to the AFCO about whether there's even any point doing so for your branch yet.

You might find your wait is being lengthened as we speak.

Ambiguity
 

This question originates from at least 2 sources, first of all qualities of a transformational leader and secondly effective followership. If you google these or look on businessballs you will get more information.

X34, whose question are you answering?

OASC Bulletin 19
 

John had now completed all aspects of the OASC selection process but was still awaiting his final medical and security clearances. The next event was attendance at the Initial Officer Training (IOT) Familiarization Visit. While he was waited for the date of the visit to arrive, he continued to work hard on his fitness and kept abreast of what was going on in the world. Finally, the date arrived for him to return to RAF Cranwell to attend the Visit. This week we follow John through the Familiarization Visit.

John arrived at the Candidates’ Mess by car around mid-morning. He unloaded his bags into his room and then walked over to the Mess to meet the other people who were on the Visit. After they had finished lunch, they received a welcome briefing by Officer and Aircrew Cadet Training Unit (OACTU) staff and filled in some paperwork. The group was then split into 2. John’s group walked a short way to Clothing Stores where they were measured up for their uniforms and sized for boots and shoes. They would get to keep their boots and working shoes so that they could break them in before they started training. They remained at the Stores for nearly 2 hours, before walking back to the Candidates’ Mess to be shown around the facilities properly and also to be shown a bedroom and how a cadet would be expected to maintain it to inspection standard. Once this presentation was complete, there was a short break before the candidates were driven to College Hall Officers’ Mess (CHOM) so that they could have dinner and discuss IOT with Term 3 cadets. This gave John the opportunity to get a real understanding of what to expect – so he asked lots of questions. Finally, they were driven back to the Candidates’ Mess at 2100hrs. Living in CHOM seemed a long way off to the candidates as they discussed their experiences over a drink in the bar.

The following morning, immediately after breakfast, John’s group was driven to Whittle Hall, which was, in essence, the training centre for IOT cadets. For the next 2 hours, the candidates were asked to write a ‘My Life’ essay outlining everything that they had done, experienced and achieved in life so far. As soon as that was complete, it was over to the gym to get changed into sports kit to take part in the OACTU Fitness Assessment (OFA). This was similar to the Selection Fitness Test at OASC, although the 1.5 mile run was to be completed outside rather than on a treadmill in the gym. John had been working hard on his fitness and performed well in the assessment as he knew that failure in any element of the OFA would result in his allocation to IOT being reviewed and possibly cancelled. The Physical Training Instructors then gave the candidates a briefing on what to expect during IOT from a physical viewpoint before discussing the results of the OFA. John achieved a Green standard but there was one individual who only achieved a Red and was told he would have to repeat the Visit. Everybody had to achieve at least an Amber in order to be accepted onto IOT. That concluded the morning’s activities. After lunch, the candidates were shepherded to the Main Guard Room so that they could have their photographs taken for their access passes. Then it was back to Whittle Hall again to receive a briefing from the RAF Regiment staffs about how to look after their feet during training, followed by a briefing from the OACTU staff covering all elements of the IOT course. After a short question and answer period, the Visit was complete and the candidates were free to leave. John was very focussed on the task ahead and knew that, pending his medical and security clearances, his next event would be to commence IOT in less than 2 months’ time.

A week or so after the Familiarization Visit, John received his final letter of acceptance from OASC, stating that his arrangements to start IOT had been finalised and gave details of when he would need to arrive at RAF Cranwell to commence training. The letter went on to state his conditions of service and gave some other useful pieces of information, including a list of documents that he would require to bring with him in order to provide a means of identification.

We have now completed John’s journey from selection through to him commencing IOT. It has been a long journey and one that has required a great deal of effort and determination on his part. For some people, the journey can take much longer if they are found to be temporarily unfit at the medical stage of the process or if they do not maintain their fitness to an adequate level. But, for John, he is about to embark on a thoroughly challenging but rewarding career in the RAF as a pilot. However, his work has only just begun….

For more information regarding any of these areas highlighted, please contact your AFCO and they will be able to give you more detailed information regarding specific cases.

Please note that, although OASC will endeavour to answer generic questions that arise, we will not be engaging or commenting on individual cases. In those cases, the individual is advised to contact their nearest AFCO who will be able to deal with any queries. All information published is for information only.

Information regarding a career in the RAF can be found at http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers

My oasc experiance
 

Afternoon,

I applied last June and was sucessful at OASC being told that I had been granted a bursary for pilot for my last year at uni. However, I then received a letter from the medical board stating that I was permanently medically unfit for all air and controller branches due to one case of migraine being on my record in 1996 (when I was 8)
I have been fighting this case since then, as migraine doesnt' effect me and have seen a specialist, hunted down the initial neurologist, who has written a letter saying that the diagnosis was wrong (stating migraine was given simply to give my headache at the time a label...great!)seen numerous GPs and spoken with several high rankers within the airforce who all claim that my application remaining barred is ludacris. However, the medical board at Cranwell refuse to budge on the issue stating that it is policy to take the initial diagnosis and the door was "very much shut and maybe I should try the Army as they take anyone"( great professionalism) As I am a member of a University Air Squadron, my boss there (a squadron leader) has been great and continued to fight my case and a couple of days ago I received a letter from a wing commander stating that I was to attend a military hospital to see a military neurologist and his/her decision would be final. I was filled with hope again, however I have now been told that even though the decision is with the neurologist, the medical board will more than likely still say no (even if the decision is made that my "migraines" are no risk) and my application will remiained barred.
Does anyone know why this is the case? does the medical board work independantly of everyone else and speak to noone?! eventhough different people keep telling me different things. If this recruitment process occured in any other organisation, I think there would be outcry!
Obviously I still would love to be offered a place and unfortunately will remain jumping through hoops if it means I can get there but I think it is crazy that this has happened for now over a year and there is still no definite answer.( the medical appointment could be another 15 weeks away!)
Thoughts would be greatly appreciated giving advice, ideas, critism etc!

To Treebeard 04
If you read my post above you will see that I have also had a run-in with the Medical board and whilst mine is only a temporary ban I fought tooth and nail to get the decision overturned, tracking down the original GP who said it was a mis-diagnosis and my current GP to write about my entire respiratory health and history to no avail. I also got a letter saying the ban still stood. I think it is promising that you are being seen by a military neurologist, if they didn't want you they wouldn't of wasted their time setting it up. Just keep on banging down those doors!

To Pontius Navigator
Thanks for the reply. It was my fault for not being clearer. The reason for my bar from service was in my medical records, not discovered whilst at OASC. So it was 4 years from the date of the diagnosis (or mis-diagnosis!). The letter from the President of the medical board states May 2011 as the next time I will be eligable. Just add a bit of clarity! :D

I'm aware that most branches throughout the RAF are currently not recruiting. However, is there anywhere that I would be able to find a list of the branches that are currently recruiting? I'm interested in becoming an Air Traffic Control Officer or a Weapons Systems Operator.

I'm going into the city centre tomorrow to have a chat at the AFCO and see what is available.

Planet Pyramid - you've answered your own question! :ok:

what is the general consensus about the following:

I received a letter from cranwell saying that i should "re-apply in 3 months" because I am "temporarily unfit" for selection (quoted from the medical letter i received). However I have started training and have been pushing myself again, and am near the fitness that I was before the op.

I rang my afco and argued this, and they've managed to keep me in the pipeline, but defer the phonecall to get a date from cranwell until november 1st. This is incredibly frustrating as I am at 95% fitness now, and can easily beat the targets set for the fitness test.

Is it worth me ringing early september to push my luck to get a date for cranwell, as it is between 6-10 weeks waiting anyway, which would take me over the 3 month "unfit period" that cranwell seemed to have dropped me in. Or should i get a doctors note to try and back it up?

I'm worried because the defence review is in october, and who knows what could happen, and i'd like a chance at OASC at least

opinions?

Chris, worst case, you push, you get accepted early, you fail.

The medics a always have the last say. Now use that extra 3 months, improve your knowledge and go easy on the fitness. Aim to be fit by mid-Oct.

Three months in the great scheme of things is nothing at all, you are still in the pipeline.

Thanks FUBAR and Pontius :ok: . Yet again I find the RAF website is out of date on a number of issues :rolleyes:

had a station visit today at RAF Odiham, inspiring to say the least, a BIG eye opener, and apart from 100% fixing my head on Rotary Crewman (should i be successful), i'm definitely going to be waiting the extra time, need to be much fitter, will be joining a gym this weekend and starting 1.5hours a day 5 days a week next monday :)

OASC Bulletin 20
 

During this submission, we would like to cover what we deem to be an essential pre-requisite before coming to the Officer and Aircrew Selection Centre (OASC) to apply for Weapons Systems Operator (WSOp). The following has been written by an individual who has recently attended a 55 Sqn visit and is working hard towards his goal of becoming a WSOp in the RAF.

“As someone who has attended the visit, it is extremely beneficial to all potential WSOp candidates to attend the familiarisation visit. Attendees are left in no doubt about the training they will go through and the standards that are required on the Non Commissioned Aircrew Initial Training Course (NCAITC) and beyond. We received a number of briefings as outlined below.”

OASC Brief:

After a welcome from OC 55 Sqn, we received a briefing from an OASC boarding officer about the selection process. The OASC briefing included tips and advice to potential candidates on how to prepare and succeed.

NCAITC:

The candidates were given a comprehensive break down of the NCAITC. Emphasis was placed on fitness, teamwork and the need to get into the scenarios of the various exercises. The attendees were also shown the ‘A Sqn’ building where cadets would be accommodated during their course. The standard of cleanliness and hygiene required of the accommodation block was demonstrated.

Physical Training:

Fitness was the key issue here. Emphasis was placed on pre-entry training and why the standard was so high. Ultimately, the arduous tasks that cadets would be set, and the role of the WSOp thereafter, pre-determined the fitness requirement. Tips on training prior to arrival were also briefed so that there were no excuses for turning up to the NCAITC unprepared.

WSOp Trades:

A specialist from each WSOp trade gave a 15 minute presentation outlining their take on the training for their specialisation and what the job actually involved on the front line. They also discussed the aircraft types that they could be employed on both now and in the future.

55 (R) Sqn:

At 55 (R) Sqn, we were shown where the generic and specialist ground training would be carried out. Then we were shown the radar and acoustic simulators followed by the Air Navigation Trainers, which would be used for the flying phase of the sensor specialist training.

Crewman Hangar:

Finally, to cover all aspects of the specialisations, we were taken to the crewman training hangar to look at life-sized mock ups of C17, C130K and CH47 aircraft for trainee crewmen to practice loading and unloading drills.

“Individuals will be asked about the WSOp branches during their interview at the OASC. Attending the 55 Sqn Visit should arm the candidate with enough information to discuss the branch during the interview with credibility and confidence. It also looks good on the candidate’s profile if they have attended as it shows that they are motivated to further their knowledge of the branch that they wish to enter”

55(R) Sqn hosts a formal visit for potential WSOp and ATC Senior NCO Direct Entrant candidates on the last Thursday of every month. Potential candidates can book a place on the 55(R) Sqn visit by contacting their nearest AFCO. Note from the OASC: We cannot emphasize enough the need to be physically fit to undertake NCAITC.

For more information regarding any of these areas highlighted, please contact your AFCO and they will be able to give you more detailed information regarding specific cases.

Please note that, although OASC will endeavour to answer generic questions that arise, we will not be engaging or commenting on individual cases. In those cases, the individual is advised to contact their nearest AFCO who will be able to deal with any queries. All information published is for information only.

Information regarding a career in the RAF can be found at http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers

Some good news to report (if anyone is interested) - I've submitted my doctor letter/note to the AFCO and I can now run the 1.5 mile run in 11mins 30 secs with is 41 secs under the required time (proof enough that asthma is not an issue for me)!

PS - in regards to the letter that I submitted, does anyone know what will now happen to it and roughly how long it'll take for me to get a response? I'm assuming it'll get sent to Cranwell.

El S, not trying to pour scorn on your parade, but 11.30 is nothing to be proud of, if you're not running close to or better than the 10.18 green standard by the start of IOT then -under current rules- your place is at stake.
It might well scrape in at the lower end of the scale (although I'm not sure about that) but don't ease up now.

^^^ I'm not overly proud of 11:30 though I am pleased that I've brought that time down from 12:10ish within a month. I think I could go faster now, it's just difficult to judge it when you're running on a treadmill. Could you explain to me what the green standard means? What's the point in having a max time if they want you to run 2 minutes faster than it?

ES,

See Fitness test standards - E-Goat :: The Totally Unofficial Royal Air Force Rumour Network forums for the scores.

Taken from the document THIS PAGE ON THE RAF CAREERS WEBSITE refers to.

It seems they have gone to hard rules in these hard times.

Distinctly different demand on the body to breathing through a mask whilst flying at altitude. I think a more scientific approach is usually employed to assess such things.

Mr C Hinecap,

Yes we all know about that but ES has been asked to provide a letter from his Doctor regarding his circumstances that are slightly different.

El S, when on IOT your 'OFAs' (Officer Fitness Assessments) will be scored out of 100 in each of the disciplines: run, pressups and situps, with 100 being the top mark possible. To get 100 in each, you need to do it <8.15 for the run, 87+ pressups and 90+ situps. Sliding scale in each area then works out individual scores and these are matched up to a colour. The lowest score of any will apply to all, so you could do an 8minute 1.5 mile, but score a red in the pressups and you score a red overall.

Red is fail, yellow is bare minimum accepted on course and green is the pass.

Where did you get the 12.11 time you refer to? I ask, because for a man your age the lowest yellow score is something in the 11minute category, not the 12. I scored 9.something minutes consistantly and was still below average for the course.

Also, run outside. You'll improve faster.

^^^^ I did the 11.30 yesterday in the gym on a treadmill. Would the 11.30 be enough to get me in? I obviosuly want to go faster but I'd just like to know. I'm not worried about the press-ups and sit-ups - I'm sure I could get close to the max in both (I've focussed my workouts on my upper body for about 4/5 years now).

Perhaps the best way for me to understand what level of finess I need to be at is the level they require from you on the bleep test. What level do they want? The highest that I have achieved (a few years ago now) is 11.7 which was considered to be a good score by my P.E teachers.

Aero - that linked document is fairly new and the first written word I've seen that asthma history is totally verboten for aircrew application. El Supremo (with documented inhaler prescription however you read it) has been procrastinating over every aspect for so long he has managed to slide into the worst recruiting levels in living history. This has coincided with the change of '4 years clear' to 'no wheezy boys ever', as you well know.

If he read back in this thread and looked here he would know what the fitness requirements are.

El Supremo,

If it helps any, and bearing in mind I went through IOT in the 90s, our course was a 'guinnea pig' course for the PEdOs at Cosford. Consequently, everything we did fitness and test wise was always to max endeavour rather than a defined limit. On my fitness test about 2/3 of the way through the course I got to level 13-something which the PTIs viewed as being a passable effort for a 23 yr old.

Now as an ahem mid-30s (damn time goes fast), I did my most recent fitness test about 2 weeks back on return from theatre and got to level 11.3. Not bad for an old fart, and the last man standing in the gym amongst a bunch of wheezing 20-somethings.

Now fitness standards and test regimes have changed massively since I went through, however, the moral of the story is that whatever you think is good will never be good enough for the PTIs. As far as they are concerned an 'aircrew pass' i.e. scraping in, is not good enough - 'just enough is not enough' was one of our Sqn Cdr's favourite sayings. Basically, before you get to OASC / IOT, you would do well to maximise your CV capacity, getting it to as high a level as you can manage

I find interval training worked for me - it helped my cardio improve quite rapidly in a short space of time. On det, I did most of my running on a treadmill in the gym. By the time I left theatre I was starting with a 5 min warm-up at 11km/hr and then at the 5 min point ramping the speed up to 16.5km/hr for 1 min then dropping back to 11.5km/hr for 2 mins and so on, repeating for the next 30 mins. Try it - it's harder than you think, especially if you set yourself a goal of increasing the jog / run speeds by 0.5km/hr every couple of weeks. Assuming you are already reasonably fit, you should find your CV capacity increases quite quickly, but just be aware that you also need to do some long distance runs too; if all you do is the interval training you will find you train your body to do relatively short - mid distance runs very quickly but you will be screwed on the longer runs you do at IOT.

Mr C Hinecap - procrastination or making sure i got my legal qualifications and that joining the RAF is really what I wanted to do?

ES - you started asking about pilot training in early 2008 and discovered commercial was too expensive, so looked at the Forces.

In Jul 08 you posted
and
In Nov 08 you posted
In Jun 09 you posted
There is more, but I feel that makes my point. You call it what you want, but we're still not much closer.

Some of the English and spelling have not improved either, which willl not improve your chances of success.

Wander00 - are you being serious? In case you are I will bite. I studied law for three years in univeristy. In that time I had to write many essays. For example, one which you might find interesting was my examination of the legality of the Iraq war. Feel free to request a copy of it for your reading pleasure although I think it may be a little beyond your comprehension. Needless to say I had to have a good grasp of the written word in order to complete the course (I'm too modest to divulge my scores/marks as I find it vulgar). I then went on to study the subject at a post-graduate level.

I didn't realise that this forum was really a spelling and grammar test. I shall try harder next time! I must ask, what subject did you study in university?

Finally, I must apologise to the other forum members for moving this thread away from the subject it was intended for.

eg "rest bite" for "respite" - I rest my case. Certainly in the far off days when I was a flt cdr at IOT, "written communication" was taken pretty seriously. Despite my experiences with my 22 year old son (who finds "spell check" a chore), I understand that the ability to write grammatical and accurate Ennglish is still a requirement at IOT. You are, of course, entitled to an alternative view.

No, frankly. Can't speak for OASC, but it would not get you through a FamVisit prior to IOT [unless you were in your 30s].

If you're not scoring level 12 during the course [again, it differs with age] then you'll suffer. But unless you knock 2 minutes off your 1.5 mile time, you won't get there to find out.

Let's not forget though, that physical fitness is only one part of the process, if you're useless in the interview, perform poorly in the exercises and discussions or come across as a bit of a numpty, you won't get in.

GAPAN Aptitude Testing - RAF Cranwell
 

Afternoon All,

Has anyone ever participated in the G.A.P.A.N Aptitude Testing held at RAF Cranwell? Not sure if it can be done for the Military as the GAPAN I think are a Civilian Aviation Authority Organisation.

I'm looking at hopefully doing it in November as a heads up on my Aptitude ability, also to get advice about other possible careers within the Aviation sector.

All the best

NDW

It's for pilots and navigators regardless of their flying. Not sure if you've been on their website but it's full of military photos :ok:

Is it really worth doing it? What happens if they say you're not good enough, are you just going to give up on your RAF dreams?

I know if they told me I was b*llocks I would still apply and let the RAF decide.

Aerouk,

Ah apologies for for my mistake regarding GAPAN!! :ugh:

I would hope that it would give me a head's up regarding my aptitude, if I had it and got a good score - Fantastic!!

If not I won't give up, I'll try again the year after!!

I'll only give up the day I'm personally kicked out by the C/O :ok:

Thanks

NDW

Mr C Hinecap, Just after some advice since you seem to be a man in the know. When you said

This has coincided with the change of '4 years clear' to 'no wheezy boys ever', as you well know.

When did this change and where is the info as I am a "wheezy boy" waiting for my 4 years to clear.

Thanks!

Smegward

You can get the information from the AFCO or the RAF website. Below is an extract from the website under the heading "Medical conditions that preclude entry"

"If you suffer from asthma or have done in the past, you cannot be considered for flying branches of the RAF. For ground branches and trades, people with a past history of asthma, wheezing or inhaler use may be eligible for service following review by medical staff. If you have current asthma symptoms or a current prescription or you use an inhaler for asthma or wheeze (regardless of cause), you are not eligible to apply for service."

The first sentence make it quite clear. The key words are "or have done in the past". Basically, ANY diagnosis of Asthma at ANY age will stop you from flying. This policy became more strict (and clearer) only a few months ago. For ground branches, the 'four year prescription and symptom free' rule remains extant.

Link to the full list of issues which would preclude entry is here: http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers/rafcms...A28D2D8DAE.pdf

Smegward,

You simply cannot in any way join as aircrew for the RAF if you have suffered from Asthma, I was at the AFCO recently when a young lad was told he had no chance because of this.

OneFifty - I was told pretty much the same thing back in November. However, the chap in the AFCO advised that you can be considered if you can prove that any diagnosis was suspect/incorrect. Hence why I needed to get a note from my GP explaining that my previous diagnosis is likely (he explained that there is no definitive way of testing for asthma) to be wrong.

Ou of curiosity, does anyone know definitively whether the RAF rule is applicable to the RN? I remember a few months ago that it was discussed here with no clear answer.

ElSupreo

If your doctor is of the opinion that any asthma diagnosis is likely to have been incorrect (and it is understood that asthma is over diagnosed), and he is willing to provide this in writing, then your case MIGHT be reviewed by the OASC Med Board. However, this is very VERY rare, more so if there has been multiple prescriptions. Remember, for every one candidate with a potential asthma issue, there will be literally hundreds without so why should they take the risk? (Please note that actual use of an inhaler is irrelevant, it's the fact that the doctor saw fit to prescribe it which counts. I hear almost daily potential candidates claim they had an inhaler issued every few months for the past 10 years yet never actually used it.)

WSO Open
 

Hi

I attended my RAF P2 Presentation this week, which went well and I should have my filter interview soon. I am applying for Pilot, and was hoping to have Weapon Systems Officer as a 2nd choice but was told that they thought this position was closed due to future aircraft not having WSO on board, only WSOp. So any recruiters out there who can answer this? My AFCO wasn't sure, but thought it was closed .I thought MR4A had at least 1 WSO on board, and same with the Sentinel R1? I have passed FATs for Pilot (136) and WSO(112) with the Royal Navy, but just missed out at AIB. If the role is still open, is 112 even enough to be selected, or are they looking for a more competitive score. I'm only checking should there be a medical problem at OASC and Pilot is a no go.
Thanks!

Will