The case seems to be that I will be too old by a few months by the time recruiting starts again. If what DSAT Man said is correct, then FY 13 will end in April 2014 and I will then be 25 years old. You have to be 25 years old by the time you start pilot training which, as far as I know, comes after officer training. So I will most likely be 26 years old by the time I even get into an aircraft. Is this the case, or have I made a few calculation errors (I hope I have in this case).

Alexrey

It appears from the information you have provided that the Residency requirement means that you will be too old to commence Pilot Training by the time that the Residence requirement has been satisfied.

If you had contacted the British High Commission in South Africa then the Military Staff could have explained every Requirement to you.

PS

I think you will find that you are incorrect in your belief that you have to be 25 years old to commence Flying Training - I started at 19 years old having completed Initial Officer Training, served in the Gulf, the Caribbean and Europe and had passed the CFS Course as a QFI by the age of 25 years.

Alexrey, like you, I haven't a clue who DSAT Man is? This is a rumour network, you simply cannot base life decisions on what you read on such a site - when you are ready to do so, write to the RAF/RN/AAC (as appropriate) with all the relevant information that they may need to consider your enquiry/application - then, again, base any decision on the responses you receive from each Service.

I wish you well.

S4G

Alexrey, you seem to want to ignore answers which you don't want to hear. I am a RAF recruiter, I deal with the processing of officer applications including pilot. As well as other factors, your age and residency are against you. You need to now be looking at alternatives. As previously asked, what about your own air force? I know it's harsh and very disappointing, but there are literally hundreds of other applicants who will be seen as less of a risk.

Good luck with whatever direction you choose to go.

Thanks for your replies guys.

Pontius Navigator I'm guessing you mean the SAAF not the RSAF? I might just have to join up with them, but I'm not too keen to, as by all reports they seem to be very underskilled and falling apart.

I will look into my UK residency standing further and make a decision from there. Cheers guys.

Alexrey

You stated in your original posting on this thread " I've lived and studied in SA all my life". If that statement was correct then it would appear that you have not been Resident in the UK at any time in your life and you would therefore not comply with the minimum 3 year Residency requirement before you can even be considered for attendance at the Officer & Aircrew Selection Centre.

Guys, I know I'm beating a dead horse regarding this topic, but replies on this forum and requirements posted on www.raf.mod.uk are causing some ambiguities. This is what the RAF website has under nationality requirements:

I am a British Citizen (the words "British Citizen" are printed in my passport next to my photo), so I meet nationality requirements.

Under the residency requirements the RAF website has the following:

As I have stated above, I am a British Citizen. Also, my mother is a British Citizen and we live in South Africa which is a Commonwealth Country. So with these two criteria met, I should be completely eligible to apply for a position in the RAF. Is there something that I'm just not seeing, or is the information on the RAF's website out of date?

Alexrey

The point is quite simple; you have not been Resident in the UK at any time - even for a single day.

The Recruiting Officer who posted on this thread pointed out that your history would not comply with the Residential requirements which require 3 years Residence in the UK for you to be considered.

Well that is contrary to what my above quote from the RAF website says, as it implies that as long as I am a British citizen, have a parent who is a British citizen, and have studied in a Commonwealth country, then I am eligible to apply to the RAF. Clearly there is a contradiction, and either the statement above is correct or the statement made by OneFifty is correct. If OneFifty is correct then it would have been nice of the RAF to actually give correct requirements on their website instead of stringing people along with a false sense of security.

I know that this plays no role in the ability for me to be considered a vaild applicant or not, as that is clearly a bureaucratic decision, but my family have been a part of HM forces for quite a while. My great grandfather fought in the Battle of Jutland as a young man and eventually ended his naval career as a Rear Admiral whereas my grandfather, who was awarded the sword of honour at Sandhurst during his officer training, fought in WWII as a Major General. I definitely don't see myself as a risky choice, but I know that rules are rules and if you're seen as a "risk" by bureaucratic standards, then you are seen as a risk outright and there is little to nothing that can be done to change that view.

Alexrey, I grew up in Central Africa but I couldn't join the RAF whilst domiciled, I physically had to come to London to live (I then applied via a local RAF Careers Information Office - that was back in 1971). It's how you choose to interpret 'UK Resident Less Than 3 Years' that is causing you to continuously challenge - clearly, you cannot apply to join the RAF while resident in South Africa, simples.

S4G

Alexrey

I understand your frustration BUT the rules clearly state the requirements in respect of the criteria required to satisfy the enrolment of personnel in Flying Training. When I attended OASC (more years ago than I care to remember) of the 30+ candidates being interviewed only 3 were accepted - of those 3 one failed to reach the standard required to be awarded his "Wings".

Alexrey,

To reinforce the point being made by those trying to help you see your problem, the bit of the puzzle that you seem to be missing, is this - at no point have you been a resident of the UK. Not for "a minium of 5 years", nor "between 3 and 5 years", nor for "less than 3 years". You haven't lived in the UK, so the very final line of that section, in bold, clearly states:

Quite clear really. So, until such time that you have applied to reside in the UK, have had that application approved, and you then actually move to, and live in, the UK then you just don't meet the criteria!

What is more, even if you do perhaps get to reside in the UK, you have to fall in to one of the three categories you quoted, and the RAF "will need to complete further checks on your eligibility during the application process. This will likely include checking your employment history in the UK and criminal record check. They are unlikely to take you on unless you have been resident for at least 2 years, which they consider the minimum to show proof of willingness to remain in the UK. I know the latter from personal experience. Within those 2 years they will want to see proof that you have worked (slobbing around on the family trust fund, or similar, is unlikely to cut the mustard ;)) and have settled. You have to show 'willing and able'!

Does that make it clearer now?

Alexrey, put very simply you are missing one vital point which you yourself have quoted:

You need to qualify under BOTH nationality and residency. Unfortunately, you don't meet the residency criteria.

Thanks for the replies guys, that makes a lot more sense. I guess I'll be heading over to the UK to see what I can do about this issue. Looks like my chances of having any success are next to nothing, but hey I'm young(ish) and don't have any other plan for my life at the moment. Cheers!

I was planning on writing to the RAF two years ago actually but I thought that that would not matter since they'd just direct me to the application zone. But since there is no application zone at the moment I thought the next best thing would just be to show face and hope for the best. Now that you mention it, I think that writing to them would be the best move. I'll send some questions off at the end of this week once I've finished my first term of uni.

One question that candidates may be asked is:

"How long have you been interested in a career in the Royal Air Force?"

the next question is likely to be:

"What have you done to foster this interest?"

then they may ask:

"Why didn't you contact us 2-3 years ago?"

Candidates would be well advised to mug up answers on what are banker questions.

A similar set may include hobbies, sports etc.

Alexrey


What you are looking at is:-

Initial Officer Training

Basic Flying Training

Advanced Flying Training

Operational Conversion Unit

These will take at least three years possibly four

Then there are Survival Courses

Escape and Evasion Courses

Then you have to accept that there are other duties that take up your attention which have nothing to do with flying but are concerned with the Welfare of the Personnel who help to keep the aircraft and the Station Operational

I should have followed up on this before. It is likely to be a question at OASC if you ever get that far.

If you are any good, good enough for the RAF, then you would be ideally placed to help upskill the SAAF.

According to Wikipedia, which seems to support you contention, the SAAF is short of over 130 pilots. That shortage is roughly six times the requirement for the RAF and we are not short of applicants.

The more you post here the less does it seem to have to do with your wanting to fly and the more with getting out of South Africa. Certainly some I met were of that mind although others enjoyed every minute of it.

PS, whether your name is AlexRey or not you can be sure that you will be known before you get to AFCO or OASC.

Alexrey's Age is given as 23; therefore when he has completed his final year at University he will be Aged 24.

If he then has to comply with the 3 year Residence requirement he will be Aged 27 years - which is 2 years above the maximum Age of 25 years for commencing Pilot Training.

What he should have done was to study for his degree at a UK University which had an affiliated UAS.

PN, I realize that the SAAF is short of skilled personnel but one of the primary reasons for my unwillingness to apply was because of my worry that my career in the SAAF would not be fulfilling in terms of flight hours received, and professionalism as a whole would not be as high as that of the RAF due to this lack of skill. If the RAF was based in South Africa I would have signed up to it in no time flat.

Caz, I am not worried about the number of years that it will take to get me fully trained as a military pilot and I'm happy that the RAF makes its pilots take into consideration the hard work that everyone puts in to keep their aircraft running and to allow their way of life to continue. I spent the last 3 years of my university career working on subjects that I had no real interest in, in order to have a competitive CV for the RAF to take a look at, and obtained a BSc in Mathematics with distinction and Geography with an upper second, whilst I could have just as easily spent each night out with my friends drinking my nights away and having a good time. I only got those results because I focused on what I wanted to do with my life. Hindsight is 20/20 and I damn well wish that I had chosen to study in the UK from the get go as it would have made this avoidable issue disappear. I'm being a bit of a whining retard so I'll stop myself and get on with trying to contact the RAF. If they give me a chance though I'll sign on the dotted line faster than they can say "sign on the dotted line".

Cheers.

Right, this has gone onlong enough now. Alexrey, you are not going to be a pilot in the RAF. You have been told this more than once. You say you have spent your time trying to gain a more competitive CV to bring to the RAF... you DO NOT need a degree to join as a pilot. Once you have the GCSEs and A-levels, (or equivalents) it is your performance at OASC which determines your competitiveness. Had you made contact when you first decided that this is what you wanted to do then you would have been told that, along with the residency requirements. You say you will continue to try and contactthe RAF... you should have done this YEARS ago! You were told to do it when you first posted yet you STILL haven't! The RAF will not give you a chance; you have already been given the reason why.

I am sorry to have to beharsh with you (again) but this is the truth of the matter. Other officer roleswould still be open to you once you have satisfied the residency requirement.

Some other, but not all, officer roles would still be open to you once you have satisfied the residency requirement.

And one other point, you have not stated that you have the minimum GCSE/A-level equivalent grades. A degree in Rocket Science does not exempt a candidate from even the 5 GCSE including English and Maths.

PN

Thank you for making that clear.

PN

A good point - often overlooked.

At the end of the day it is the Basics that count!!

Thanks for your help guys and I apologize for wasting your time. I know I sounded like a cocky little prick who was better than everybody else in that last post but that was not my intention, sorry I guess I was trying to sell myself too much.

Cheers.

Alex, you have done it again. You have ignored the hints regarding when and why and how longb you have wanted to join the RAF.

You have ducked the issue about your basic educational qualifications. I don't know their equivalences but I am sure OneFifty does.

The point about degrees and life-style choices has been made several times earlier in this thread. The chances of any one applicant being accepted as an officer candidate are vanishingly small - you see that was true of pilot candidates that were made redundant before completing training.

The RAF actually prefers a mix of pre-university and graduates. The former tend to be younger, more flexible, have greater potential for development, and are in the system longer before age 30 with excellent chances of promotion. Your graduate on the other hand should have gained valuable life skills and had more opportunities to prove or improve leadership and skills. The advice though was that the actual degree did not matter and a candidate would have better chosen a course with a view to a career outside the RAF lest they fail to be selected.

Other things you have not questioned are your fitness levels, medical fitness and your body build. Your legs may be too long; your arms too short; you may be outside the weight range. Can you swim, run etc etc.

I think if I was his IOT Flt Cdr I would heve recommended his re-course by now!

Alexrey

At your age I was on my second Squadron flying Senior Government Ministers on a tour of Caribbean Islands.

Well, somebody had to do it!!

Having had my curiosity piqued by all this discussion of residency requirements, without going into detail I had a quick look online.

Whilst the website states the need for a 3 year residency, the official line is that for higher clearances you will need to have been resident for at least 5 years and for some clearances 10 years. Furthermore, the security considerations of some of the more sensitive posts, for example FJ QWI or tactics posts, might well require an individual to be a UK National rather than just a British Citizen.

Whilst it is possible to come in under those limits, as the concepts of loyalty and trustworthyness are not necessarily linked to nationality - as politicians demonstrate on a regular basis - it is difficult to do so, especially if an individual is not from one of the '5 Eyes Nations' and this will likely add further time and hoops to be jumped through. Furthermore, if the selection boards think there may well be security clearance issues further down the line that might restrict an individual to being able to carry out only limited, basic duties, they might see it as a limiting factor in terms of employability and career progression and as such would likely look elsewhere for individuals that could be employed in the full range of rolls.

Alexrey

Some of the language you use in your Posts will not endear you to those who oversee the Selection Process.

As a matter of interest, I picked this up from another thread and it is germane to the recent discussions here.

The South African Air Force (SAAF) is hopeful that the pilots of its Gripen fighters will be granted significantly more flying hours during the financial year, which started on April 1.
SAAF director: force preparation Major-General Tsoku Khumalo indicated that the target was for 180 flying hours yearly, starting from 2012/13.
Speaking to South African journalists at Sweden's Ronneby Air Force Base (AFB) on Tuesday, he said the increase in flying hours was needed to maintain "currency in piloting your aircraft".
"You can't sacrifice the hours you need to maintain currency."
"It's our job to protect our sovereignty. We've got the capability, we've got the equipment and we've got the people," he affirmed, adding that a key target would be to deal with the Somali piracy threat off Africa’s east coast.
SAAF Gripens have already carried out antipiracy reconnaissance missions. The fighters can fly from their base, AFB Makhado, to the middle of the Mozambique channel and back, without having to refuel.
More generally, the SAAF wants to increase the number of youngsters it trains as pilots, for all "lines" (in air force jargon – fighter, transport and helicopter), every year. As some of the Gripen's systems are still undergoing operational test and evaluation, the number of pilots converted on to the new fighter will remain limited until this process is completed.

Pontius, I think that, between the lines, Alexray is hinting that he didn't feel he had a future in the SAAF. I would sympathise with him. The government in South Africa today, behind the scenes, would like nothing more than to remove any faces from positions of importance and power that it doesn't see as fitting it's ethnic profile. Such positions usually go to friends, relatives of those holding the reigns of power, and to those whose political party-affiliations are liable to favour the 'ruling class'. Ability to do the job effectively is not a high requirement.

Just to the north of SA, one only has to look at Zimbabwe to see what disasters that sort of thinking generated.

I don't think that Alexray ever understood that it was not a question of "signing on the dotted line" at OASC - rather that it would be an in-depth assessment of suitability for Aircrew training and suitability to be awarded a Commission.

Interview in sight
 

Thanks for all the info in this thread, took some time to get through but in there some really good stuff! Off to Cranwell next month for oasc very excited :ok:

Amy, looking for ATC or Fighter Control?

Pilot Branch
 

Could anyone cast more light on the current age limit for Joining as a pilot.

I'm currently serving as an airman.

Mozza,

Before your 26th birthday.

Fighter Control hasn't existed for a number of years, PN!

ATC,

Fighter Control is now Airspace Battle Mgt that looks ridiculously hardcore!!

OSB(ATC) and ABM are soon to be one in the same. Might be worth looking into that in case you get to OASC part 2!