Meteor Accident Statistics
Those who might be wondering what happened to Clementine's companion 'Sir Winston' (Meteor F8 VZ467) will perhaps be pleased to learn that the a/c is still airworthy. Repainted in RAAF markings, it is now based in New South Wales as part of the Temora Aviation Museum fleet.
A shame that the world's only airworthy Meteor F8 should have left the UK though.
It was always worth seeing 'Sir Winston' in the hands of the late 'Puddy' Catt at Brawdy running in to the circuit in his own cloud of condensation after dropping the flag! Once, after the flag had been shot off by a student Hunter pilot, 'Puddy' decided to take advantage of being airborne with lots of fuel, so went to Pembrey range. Requesting clearance for a 'simulated napalm attack', he astonished the range staff by hurtling across the range at about 50ft!
A shame that the world's only airworthy Meteor F8 should have left the UK though.
It was always worth seeing 'Sir Winston' in the hands of the late 'Puddy' Catt at Brawdy running in to the circuit in his own cloud of condensation after dropping the flag! Once, after the flag had been shot off by a student Hunter pilot, 'Puddy' decided to take advantage of being airborne with lots of fuel, so went to Pembrey range. Requesting clearance for a 'simulated napalm attack', he astonished the range staff by hurtling across the range at about 50ft!
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: NSW Australia
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What a great thread, missed it first time around. One of my favourite aeroplanes; most of them have been on reflection! Driffield end of 51, fresh from Harvards, loads of power, not much fuel, excellent instruction, what more could one want? We did not lose anyone from our course, but a couple, including the Station Medical Officer who I think did too tight a circuit at Merrifield, knocked his pitot head off on a tree, then tried again with disasterous results, were lost during our time there. Par for the course at that time, tragically.
I had a Czech instructor, Gerry Sodec, lovely chap, who I could hardly understand on the ground. 35000 in the unpressurised 7, no hope! We managed.
On to Strad on the Mk8, followed by squadron tour, then try and cadge a Meatbox whenever I could. Last flew the Mk8 in Cyprus in 65, and having been elevated to a staff job at NEAF, tried again, which made HQ NEAF realise they still had one at Akrotiri, so they disestablished it!
I'm full of admiration for those like FV who can remember it all in so much detail. For me it is all a distant and thoroughly enjoyable blurr.
I had a Czech instructor, Gerry Sodec, lovely chap, who I could hardly understand on the ground. 35000 in the unpressurised 7, no hope! We managed.
On to Strad on the Mk8, followed by squadron tour, then try and cadge a Meatbox whenever I could. Last flew the Mk8 in Cyprus in 65, and having been elevated to a staff job at NEAF, tried again, which made HQ NEAF realise they still had one at Akrotiri, so they disestablished it!
I'm full of admiration for those like FV who can remember it all in so much detail. For me it is all a distant and thoroughly enjoyable blurr.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Without wishing to seem like a spotter 
maybe these pics may be of interest to some: http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/m...ferecepg_1.htm
I seem to remember bieng told GLOSM wasnt a Gloster Meteor but made by another company, were there any differences or were they just made under licence or some such thing?
Oh hang on I am sounding like a spotter now
maybe these pics may be of interest to some: http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/m...ferecepg_1.htmI seem to remember bieng told GLOSM wasnt a Gloster Meteor but made by another company, were there any differences or were they just made under licence or some such thing?
Oh hang on I am sounding like a spotter now
Now don't you go falling off your little aluminium step ladder, now, but the 'other company' was Sir W G Armstrong-Whitworth who constructed a fair few Meteors and Hunters.
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Meteor Accident stats
A sudden wave of nostalgia with the resurection of this thread from 3 years ago! Absolutely correct Beagle, in fact all the NF variants were designed and built by AW as well as a few batches of the day fighter Marks and the "prone pilot" experimental Meteor. Incidentally, I think our NF 12s and 14s were the only Meteors with Derwent 9s all though you would hardly notice the difference. I think Flatus remarked that he never heard of an engine failure. I guess there must have been some, but I do not recall any at Malling on my tour. Accidents were from many other reasons. We had a big pairs stream take off for a "Balbo" one very hot summer day in '55 (?). the idea of course was alternate pairs high and low to keep out of slipstream, but we were vey heavy with full underwing and ventral tanks and one aircraft caught the combined slipstream of the previous 6 aircraft and went into a strawberry field just off the end of the runway.
Killed several "pickers" as well as the crew.
I would echo Flatus. If you kept you speed above 125Kts with plenty of air below you if you were on one, you could do anything with the old lady. If ever things went pear shaped - let go of everything and she came out pointing down with full cntrol returned. We did learn to respect those airbrakes though. They were above and below the wings but inboard of the engines and deployment completely destroyed lift from the inboard wing sections. Hence the yaw problem with asymmetric main wheel extension and brakes out.
As an aside, we lost our boss two or three weeks ago. Wg Cdr
AF "Binkie" Binks. He reached his late 80s and collapsed and died in his local pub in Warborough. A very much larger than life ex war-time boss, a walking image of David Niven and who was as mad as a hatter yet loved by all of us. A pyromaniac with a penchant for setting fire to the mess bar!! He was finally posted as the titular Stn Cdr of Alconbury.
One wet cloudy day he persuaded one of the USAF pilots to take him to Church Fenton in a two seat F100 where 85 were newly ensconced and beat the s**t out of the place. Needless to say he had the advantages of the golden bowler scheme explained to him by the Air Board and he retired to Oxfordshire.!!!
Where have all the characters gone. When did anyone last fly under one of the London bridges, or take off the top of somone's car! I know, I know, rules, safety and responsibility, but sometimes I think we have lost a lot of the spirit that existed two or three decades ago. Ah well!
Killed several "pickers" as well as the crew.
I would echo Flatus. If you kept you speed above 125Kts with plenty of air below you if you were on one, you could do anything with the old lady. If ever things went pear shaped - let go of everything and she came out pointing down with full cntrol returned. We did learn to respect those airbrakes though. They were above and below the wings but inboard of the engines and deployment completely destroyed lift from the inboard wing sections. Hence the yaw problem with asymmetric main wheel extension and brakes out.
As an aside, we lost our boss two or three weeks ago. Wg Cdr
AF "Binkie" Binks. He reached his late 80s and collapsed and died in his local pub in Warborough. A very much larger than life ex war-time boss, a walking image of David Niven and who was as mad as a hatter yet loved by all of us. A pyromaniac with a penchant for setting fire to the mess bar!! He was finally posted as the titular Stn Cdr of Alconbury.
One wet cloudy day he persuaded one of the USAF pilots to take him to Church Fenton in a two seat F100 where 85 were newly ensconced and beat the s**t out of the place. Needless to say he had the advantages of the golden bowler scheme explained to him by the Air Board and he retired to Oxfordshire.!!!
Where have all the characters gone. When did anyone last fly under one of the London bridges, or take off the top of somone's car! I know, I know, rules, safety and responsibility, but sometimes I think we have lost a lot of the spirit that existed two or three decades ago. Ah well!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: due south
Posts: 1,332
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re Derwent failures.
Mid 50's and the AOC was enroute to one of his bases when he suffered an engine failure.
Continued and landed without any drama.
The Fighter Command monthy accident summary, sometimes a weighty document in those days, contained the technical details of why it failed.
The only comment from the FSO at the end was "We wonder that it dared !".
Mid 50's and the AOC was enroute to one of his bases when he suffered an engine failure.
Continued and landed without any drama.
The Fighter Command monthy accident summary, sometimes a weighty document in those days, contained the technical details of why it failed.
The only comment from the FSO at the end was "We wonder that it dared !".
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Witney UK
Posts: 616
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Your Meatbox nostalgia might be further advanced by the recent Corgi model of the Mk8. Looks pretty good but the tail is rather gaudy. Only problem is a rather pricey 28 quid or so.
Further to the leg trembling I remember that I could not find the strength to depress the clutch pedal of my Morris 1000 after an assy session, and that was as a fit young lad, such a long time ago.!!!!!!!
Further to the leg trembling I remember that I could not find the strength to depress the clutch pedal of my Morris 1000 after an assy session, and that was as a fit young lad, such a long time ago.!!!!!!!
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: London
Posts: 1,256
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Reference ejection seats mentioned in an earlier post. Navy tall persons trained on the Meteor.
The rest of us, vertically challenged, trained on the Vampire which when fitted with ejection seats was more restrictive on dashboard/ knee clearance.
The rest of us, vertically challenged, trained on the Vampire which when fitted with ejection seats was more restrictive on dashboard/ knee clearance.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: France
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re Derwent failures.
I must be the unlucky one as I had two with the 7, one where the donk just wound down all by itself----now that is scary as you sit there and wonder why it has and if the other one is going to do the same thing and the other one I was sitting minding my own business with the stude trying to fly on limited panel when there was a big bang and the top of the starboard cowling looked as though it had been sliced round with a saw. The turbine blades had decided to part company with the disc and had exited from the cowling. The turbine blades on the Derwent were welded onto the root that was in the turbine disc and were liable to part company if it was a bum weld (there, I learnt something in my three years at Halton!!) whereas on the Vampire’s Goblin the blade and root were machined out of a solid lump.
Having said that and changing aircraft, I had a Goblin wind down once flying from Merrifield over 8/8ths., duly called Mayday and went through the nausea of transmitting for a fix so that the Sub-Centre at Gloucester (manual homer days) could get a fix, to be told you are over Plymouth and the airfield is North East of the city and they gave me steers. Fine until I broke cloud and saw the airfield which was tiny and grass and I wondered about the sanity of Gloucester. Fortunately I had enough height to make Exeter and a proper runway; that was a bonus as I got a ride in a Mosquito from the FRADU bunch that were there.
Happy days (just think BEagle was wearing short pants and watched us idiots from Merrifield!!)
I must be the unlucky one as I had two with the 7, one where the donk just wound down all by itself----now that is scary as you sit there and wonder why it has and if the other one is going to do the same thing and the other one I was sitting minding my own business with the stude trying to fly on limited panel when there was a big bang and the top of the starboard cowling looked as though it had been sliced round with a saw. The turbine blades had decided to part company with the disc and had exited from the cowling. The turbine blades on the Derwent were welded onto the root that was in the turbine disc and were liable to part company if it was a bum weld (there, I learnt something in my three years at Halton!!) whereas on the Vampire’s Goblin the blade and root were machined out of a solid lump.
Having said that and changing aircraft, I had a Goblin wind down once flying from Merrifield over 8/8ths., duly called Mayday and went through the nausea of transmitting for a fix so that the Sub-Centre at Gloucester (manual homer days) could get a fix, to be told you are over Plymouth and the airfield is North East of the city and they gave me steers. Fine until I broke cloud and saw the airfield which was tiny and grass and I wondered about the sanity of Gloucester. Fortunately I had enough height to make Exeter and a proper runway; that was a bonus as I got a ride in a Mosquito from the FRADU bunch that were there.
Happy days (just think BEagle was wearing short pants and watched us idiots from Merrifield!!)
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Glorious Devon
Posts: 721
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The only time I lost a Derwent inadvertently (which is different from a "failure") was during a visit to 208 (FR) squadron by the CFS "Trappers". Although I held an A2 Cat on type, I was not being employed as a QFI but as a Flight Commander. Yet the trapper I flew with insisted on playng one-upmanship. I think he had a background on "heavies" and wanted to show us "steelies" that he could do anything we could do, only better. So he made me "patter" the spinning sequence although I reminded him I was not a squadron QFI. All went as per text book - boring! He then asked whether I had tried an inverted spin; I pointed out that the manoeuvre was prohibted in AMFOs and in the Pilots Notes (I think). His attitude was that such pettifogging restrictions did not apply to Aces from CFS Examining Wing. I had signed the 700 as Captain (although I was a Flt Lt and he a Wg Cdr) and I regret that I weakened and let him talk me through a normal spin and a recovery during which the pole was held hard against the instrument panel after the spinning had stopped. Brutal, deliberate mishandling. The aircraft faffed and juddered around a bit and then entered a quite gentle inverted spin, recogniseable only by the quite high nose position and some tolerable negative 'g'. He then told me to recover and I centralised the rudder and started to move the stick firmly and progressively back. All hell broke loose! The negative 'g' and I hit the roof, IAS started to build up rapidly and I started to "red out". There was a strangled grunt of "I have control" and some seconds later I recovered consciousness. We were well below 5,000 ft and one engine was out. Presumably the inverted spiral (for that was what we had got into ) had exhausted the negative 'g' trap in the fuel system. A few more seconds and we would have lost both engines. Well my stock of "the Right Stuff" was limited (I was never test pilot material) so I was a bit shaken and bloody angry. I relit the engine and we flew back to Abu Sueir in a strained silence. On landing I loudly called for Chiefy and grounded the aircraft for a stress check (the accelerometer was showing some horrendous figure). THe aircraft (almost brand new) was bent, but acceptable by MEAF standards. It never flew nicely again. God save us all from "experts".
Henry Crun mentioned a book listing all the RAF losses from 1945 onwards. It is an excellent reference book for checking one’s memory. Called “Broken Wings” it is published by Air Britain, written by James J Halley MBE and has an ISBN of 0815302904.
Looking quickly before leaving for work BEagle, I saw that on the 12th Feb 1954 there were two T7s (VW430 and WH244) lost at Merryfield (from 209 AFS in the book not 208??) both of which flew into the ground trying to land in poor wx. The same day an F4, VT313, was written off at W Zoyland on a wheels up landing. I couldn’t see any more multi accident days near Merryfield that year but will double check when next home.
I did see that 73 Sqn managed to lose six Venoms in one day just before Christmas 54 in Iraq !
The losses in the post war years were amazing – quoting from Broken Wings….
1945 592 a/c lost 638 fatalities
1946 1014 677
1947 420 176
1948 424 205
1949 438 224
1950 380 238
1951 490 280
1952 507 318
1953 483 333
1954 452 283
1955 305 182
1956 270 150
1957 233 139
1958 128 87
1959 102 59
1960 80 46
1961 74 55
1962 68 50
1963 60 41
1964 62 33
1965 46 71
1966 62 33
1967 60 60
1968 51 43
1969 31 22
1970 36 25
1971 40 72
Looking quickly before leaving for work BEagle, I saw that on the 12th Feb 1954 there were two T7s (VW430 and WH244) lost at Merryfield (from 209 AFS in the book not 208??) both of which flew into the ground trying to land in poor wx. The same day an F4, VT313, was written off at W Zoyland on a wheels up landing. I couldn’t see any more multi accident days near Merryfield that year but will double check when next home.
I did see that 73 Sqn managed to lose six Venoms in one day just before Christmas 54 in Iraq !
The losses in the post war years were amazing – quoting from Broken Wings….
1945 592 a/c lost 638 fatalities
1946 1014 677
1947 420 176
1948 424 205
1949 438 224
1950 380 238
1951 490 280
1952 507 318
1953 483 333
1954 452 283
1955 305 182
1956 270 150
1957 233 139
1958 128 87
1959 102 59
1960 80 46
1961 74 55
1962 68 50
1963 60 41
1964 62 33
1965 46 71
1966 62 33
1967 60 60
1968 51 43
1969 31 22
1970 36 25
1971 40 72
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: due south
Posts: 1,332
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
While some of those figures were undoubtably horrendous, perhaps many these days do not know that in the early to mid 1950's the RAF strength was, I have read, just over 6,000 aircraft.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: NSW Australia
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry breakwell, I only have 654 in my log book, I imagine it was WK654. The next time I flew it I only entered it as X, no doubt its sqadron letter. I think it was really intended as the target tug for 29 Javelin squadron, though I don't remember any air to air firing going on then, which is no doubt why NEAF had forgotten about it till I was idiot enough to remind them, instead of just asking the squadron boss, as I had before, while doing my day job on Canberras!
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Glorious Devon
Posts: 721
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The sudden reduction in Cat 5s and fatalities from 1957 onwards probably reflects the malign results of the Duncan Sandys white paper of about 1956. Fighter and FGA squadrons were drastically cut back. Kemble filled up with Hunters of various marks awaiting break-up. Thta was when the "real" RAF died.
How very true, FV!
I can just remember seeing all the contrails of the south-west one summer ('55 or '56, I guess) and being told that those were being made by "RAF fighters on exercise" by the late John Steele. Another formative event which led to me joining the mob 12 years later, I guess.
The 'sound of freedom' was much in evidence back then - how lucky you were!
I can just remember seeing all the contrails of the south-west one summer ('55 or '56, I guess) and being told that those were being made by "RAF fighters on exercise" by the late John Steele. Another formative event which led to me joining the mob 12 years later, I guess.
The 'sound of freedom' was much in evidence back then - how lucky you were!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The story about life expectancy earlier was repeated to us at nav school. And it came to pass.
One of the first to go was in a Vulcan, one of the first Mk 2s to crash in '64. Then we had the usual Canberra practice asymetric - the Vulcan was practice asymetric too.
By the time the 38/16 point arrived we had lost half.
Then at the home of air defence, when we lost an F3 we were all shocked to the core as it had been like an airliner up until then. Probably flew like one too
One of the first to go was in a Vulcan, one of the first Mk 2s to crash in '64. Then we had the usual Canberra practice asymetric - the Vulcan was practice asymetric too.
By the time the 38/16 point arrived we had lost half.
Then at the home of air defence, when we lost an F3 we were all shocked to the core as it had been like an airliner up until then. Probably flew like one too