anthrax
Try reading today's (26th Nov) Times 2 article on the American Forces adoption of the Anthrax jab. OK - it's supposedly different to ours, and ours is voluntary (!).
The Times!
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Someone mentioned earlier that the previous taking of CIPRO would reduce further effectiveness of the drug. Isnt CIPRO a doxycycline? Quite a few of us take that an awful lot as a sub-saharan anti malarial. Does this mean that on an individual basis the antibiotic will constantly reduce in effectiveness? Aaaaargh! Malaria, Anthrax or nasty side effects, you too can get 'em all.
Lupus Domesticus
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What gets listed as an "ingredient" will depend on labelling laws in differing jurisdictions.
Anything else might be quite legitimately included under "adjuvants" (or 'tabletting aids') without the need for further explanation.
Gentlemen, my advice for what it is worth is this: don't go putting things into your bodies which you don't know, trust or understand.
The justifying threat is, at best, ill-explained.
The subsequent medicine is, at best, poorly demonstrated.
The ongoing effects are, at the very least, unjustifiable in terms of their documented side efects and their claimed efficacy.
Don't do it, guys. It won't help you.
It will fvck you up.
Forever.
Trust me. And trust your instincts.
Good luck.
Anything else might be quite legitimately included under "adjuvants" (or 'tabletting aids') without the need for further explanation.
Gentlemen, my advice for what it is worth is this: don't go putting things into your bodies which you don't know, trust or understand.
The justifying threat is, at best, ill-explained.
The subsequent medicine is, at best, poorly demonstrated.
The ongoing effects are, at the very least, unjustifiable in terms of their documented side efects and their claimed efficacy.
Don't do it, guys. It won't help you.
It will fvck you up.
Forever.
Trust me. And trust your instincts.
Good luck.
Ferret
Sorry - I left my copy in the crewroom for other interested parties to read - otherwise would have tried full repeat.
Next time I will try harder! :o
Sorry - I left my copy in the crewroom for other interested parties to read - otherwise would have tried full repeat.
Next time I will try harder! :o
Thread Starter
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Bob thanks you for your replies. Bob has read the arguements, and becomes more alarmed about what he reads (squaline?). Some colleagues of Bobs might have been hospitalised due to their first anthrax jab, with high temperatures and flu - what if that might have happened? Why bring out a video AND a briefing, if you the CFM/MOD bod were not worried about the uptake or the consequences. Tell Bob the truth or he won't be turning up for the jab.
Here's one for you then...............
Me old school chum has been told that he is un-deployable because he has NOT had the VOLUNTARY jab???
Is this legal or would it class under EO rules as discrimination????
Me old school chum has been told that he is un-deployable because he has NOT had the VOLUNTARY jab???
Is this legal or would it class under EO rules as discrimination????
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Slightly off topic. What are the jabs they give you when you join up and how long do they last for? Over the years I had all sorts injected into me.
I recently had to go to the doctors. First time since leaving. They had my medical notes from the army and there is NOTHING in there at all about any injections I have had
What injections did they give us during episode one? Nobody has ever told me.
I guess I was fortunate in that I never suffered any side effects at all. I do remember 2 out of 3 guys getting quite sick when we had a round of injections in the gulf. That was one in each arm at the same time.
I recently had to go to the doctors. First time since leaving. They had my medical notes from the army and there is NOTHING in there at all about any injections I have had
What injections did they give us during episode one? Nobody has ever told me.
I guess I was fortunate in that I never suffered any side effects at all. I do remember 2 out of 3 guys getting quite sick when we had a round of injections in the gulf. That was one in each arm at the same time.
Lupus Domesticus
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Hate to be the bearer or possibly bad tidings, but if you get sick straight away you are probably one of the lucky ones.
It means that your system has identified something which it recognises that it needs to reject, and is probably doing so.
If you don't get sick from it till later, or even much later, it is probably - almost certainly - doing far more harm.
The news is not all bad, however. Some things can be done, and the earlier you do them, the better your chances are.
Flip through your local Yellow Pages and find the nearest Naturopath. Tell him/her what it is that you do for a living, and what it is that you have been "given". Get something done about these substances before you begin to experience symptoms.
Don't stop serving your country, listening to your doctor, or believing in the laws of physics; but understand for your own sake that the medical profession is incapable of doing anything about the downstream effects of these things it is putting into your body, and will be, even when it accepts that it has made a mistake, which will be a very long time before it admits as much.
The British Medical Association has openly stated that it is aware that Pasteur lied about the results of many of his experiments, and plagiarised much of what he published, and that this calls quite a lot of accepted theory regarding immunisations into question.
Yet it remains a central plank in the orthodox western platform of disease management. Why?
I genuinely do not know; but I am reminded of my father telling me that he was still being told at school that the atom was indivisible and indestructable, some years after Rutherford had successfully split it. Without wanting to reveal too much, that was at a well-known English public school with links to the military establishment.
Certainly there have been significant reductions in infectious disease rates in recent generations in the first world. How much of this can be attributed to hygiene, nutrition, and living standards, has never been adequately investigated.
Certainly it is also true that many territories in the United States which opted to distribute the Polio vaccine now have higher endemic rates of the disease than other territories which rejected it.
If you're clever enough to be a legitimate member of this forum - in which I happily admit I am a guest - then you're certainly clever enough to be able to make a value judgement on this matter.
Happy thinking
It means that your system has identified something which it recognises that it needs to reject, and is probably doing so.
If you don't get sick from it till later, or even much later, it is probably - almost certainly - doing far more harm.
The news is not all bad, however. Some things can be done, and the earlier you do them, the better your chances are.
Flip through your local Yellow Pages and find the nearest Naturopath. Tell him/her what it is that you do for a living, and what it is that you have been "given". Get something done about these substances before you begin to experience symptoms.
Don't stop serving your country, listening to your doctor, or believing in the laws of physics; but understand for your own sake that the medical profession is incapable of doing anything about the downstream effects of these things it is putting into your body, and will be, even when it accepts that it has made a mistake, which will be a very long time before it admits as much.
The British Medical Association has openly stated that it is aware that Pasteur lied about the results of many of his experiments, and plagiarised much of what he published, and that this calls quite a lot of accepted theory regarding immunisations into question.
Yet it remains a central plank in the orthodox western platform of disease management. Why?
I genuinely do not know; but I am reminded of my father telling me that he was still being told at school that the atom was indivisible and indestructable, some years after Rutherford had successfully split it. Without wanting to reveal too much, that was at a well-known English public school with links to the military establishment.
Certainly there have been significant reductions in infectious disease rates in recent generations in the first world. How much of this can be attributed to hygiene, nutrition, and living standards, has never been adequately investigated.
Certainly it is also true that many territories in the United States which opted to distribute the Polio vaccine now have higher endemic rates of the disease than other territories which rejected it.
If you're clever enough to be a legitimate member of this forum - in which I happily admit I am a guest - then you're certainly clever enough to be able to make a value judgement on this matter.
Happy thinking
Inter Arma Enim Silentius Lex Legis
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Bluewolf
Well put sir!
There is one answer to a very important question that no one will answer.
Has any research been done into possible side effects\contra indications from a combination of Anthrax injections and the taking of the unlicensed drugs NAPS and BAPs?
Well er??
You have to make your own mind up from all the informed sources available. I am being forced to attend the propaganda brief on Anthrax tomorrow! Today I am refusing to take it and I have stopped taking anti-malaria drugs when in Oman. Why? Because the MOD policy is that you MUST take them, but our own UK Tropical Disease Clinic in London says it’s not necessary for Oman!!
I know whom I trust!
Well put sir!
There is one answer to a very important question that no one will answer.
Has any research been done into possible side effects\contra indications from a combination of Anthrax injections and the taking of the unlicensed drugs NAPS and BAPs?
Well er??
You have to make your own mind up from all the informed sources available. I am being forced to attend the propaganda brief on Anthrax tomorrow! Today I am refusing to take it and I have stopped taking anti-malaria drugs when in Oman. Why? Because the MOD policy is that you MUST take them, but our own UK Tropical Disease Clinic in London says it’s not necessary for Oman!!
I know whom I trust!
Champagne anyone...?
I did write pages and pages of stuff about this but suddenly lost the will to live and condensed it somewhat. I consulted Dr StopStart about these things and we turned up some stuff on squalene and anti squalene antibodies (ASAs). The upshot was that some of the original (mid to late 80s) batches of vaccine had increased levels of squalene. People exposed to the these vaccines tended to produce ASAs, the side effects of which were broadly similar to those experienced by those suffering from the so-called “Gulf War Illness”. More recent studies of anthrax vaccines have shown that squalene is no longer a constituent, at least not in detectable levels.
Whilst I appreciate that there may be some trepidation amongst individuals over the anthrax vaccine (partly because of the hype and rumour surrounding it) I fail to see what the MoD would have to gain by pumping their troops full of poison. The MoD wants to vaccinate us for one reason: so that when we get attacked with bio-weapons we will not all keel over and die or clog up the field hospitals etc etc.
They have nothing to gain from not properly testing the vaccines they give us and everything to lose. There is no “propaganda” surrounding this. The only reason they have to stand up and tell us about the thing is to counter the wealth of rumour and misinformation that is floating about.
If you have doubts about it go ask the MO. If you think the MOs part of the “global conspiracy” then go and ask a civvy GP. You could ask a Naturopath about it too if you liked although I’d put the NAAFI Manager slightly higher up my list of authorities on this subject.
A doctor will be able to give you more substantiated information than you will ever glean from somewhere like this.
The anthrax vaccine does have side effects. As do all the other vaccines we have. The vast majority of his will suffer little or no ill effect. A very small minority will suffer some more serious side effects. In a similar way however, a small minority of the populace can be killed by eating peanuts.
Should it be required of me I will have the anthrax vaccine. This isn’t based on blind faith in my superiors but on information gleaned from professionals involved in these issues. Some of you would do well to consult similar individuals when forming your opinions rather than following the advice to be found in these pages.
Except this advice…. Hmmm.
PS. Sorry BlueWolf but I disagree with your opinions of medical science. I would hope that those folks “intelligent” enough to be perusing these pages are also intelligent enough to weigh up the evidence of years of medical work and research by hundreds of thousands of intelligent, well qualified and generally apolitical doctors against the unproven work of one man and those that believe in medical remedies with no scientific basis in fact.
Nothing personal old bean
PPS. Gorilla - enjoy your Malaria.
Whilst I appreciate that there may be some trepidation amongst individuals over the anthrax vaccine (partly because of the hype and rumour surrounding it) I fail to see what the MoD would have to gain by pumping their troops full of poison. The MoD wants to vaccinate us for one reason: so that when we get attacked with bio-weapons we will not all keel over and die or clog up the field hospitals etc etc.
They have nothing to gain from not properly testing the vaccines they give us and everything to lose. There is no “propaganda” surrounding this. The only reason they have to stand up and tell us about the thing is to counter the wealth of rumour and misinformation that is floating about.
If you have doubts about it go ask the MO. If you think the MOs part of the “global conspiracy”
then go and ask a civvy GP. You could ask a Naturopath about it too if you liked although I’d put the NAAFI Manager slightly higher up my list of authorities on this subject.A doctor will be able to give you more substantiated information than you will ever glean from somewhere like this.
The anthrax vaccine does have side effects. As do all the other vaccines we have. The vast majority of his will suffer little or no ill effect. A very small minority will suffer some more serious side effects. In a similar way however, a small minority of the populace can be killed by eating peanuts.
Should it be required of me I will have the anthrax vaccine. This isn’t based on blind faith in my superiors but on information gleaned from professionals involved in these issues. Some of you would do well to consult similar individuals when forming your opinions rather than following the advice to be found in these pages.
Except this advice…. Hmmm.
PS. Sorry BlueWolf but I disagree with your opinions of medical science. I would hope that those folks “intelligent” enough to be perusing these pages are also intelligent enough to weigh up the evidence of years of medical work and research by hundreds of thousands of intelligent, well qualified and generally apolitical doctors against the unproven work of one man and those that believe in medical remedies with no scientific basis in fact.
Nothing personal old bean
PPS. Gorilla - enjoy your Malaria.
Lupus Domesticus
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StopStart
Nothing personal taken, my dear fellow.
It is my sincerest wish that healthy debate will result in healthier sevice persons.
'Medical Science' (allopathy) doesn't have all the answers. This much is plain truth. It does, however, have an established record of wanting the world, at whatever point in history constitutes "now", to believe that it does. Western orthodox medicine is, and has been, an immeasurably valuable gift to humanity, and I would truly hate to see the world (and me) denied its countless benefits. But it doesn't know everything, and it shouldn't go thinking as if it does. Believing one's own propaganda is an unhelpful trap to fall into.
"Alternative" medicine doesn't have all the answers either, and in truth, is guilty of the same sins of arrogance as is the establishment.
But it does know some things that allopathic medicine doesn't, and some of the things it knows are truth whether medical science wants to accept them or not.
Somewhere between the extremes of opinion and methodology, lies Truth and the Useful Stuff.
If any one medical methodology were able to provide satisfaction for all, there would be no commercial demand for any other method. Plenty of people written off by one "side" have proven curable by the other, and vice versa.
If I were in the position of having to decide on whether or not to have the 'jabs' (which thank the Lord I'm not Sir) I would, based on an understanding built up over a long period, opt to forego the proffered immunisations in favour of other protective measures. That is a personal, informed decision. Others must arrive at their own, but in all fairness should, in making it, be allowed access to all the facts, not just some of them.
Good luck.
Nothing personal taken, my dear fellow.
It is my sincerest wish that healthy debate will result in healthier sevice persons.
'Medical Science' (allopathy) doesn't have all the answers. This much is plain truth. It does, however, have an established record of wanting the world, at whatever point in history constitutes "now", to believe that it does. Western orthodox medicine is, and has been, an immeasurably valuable gift to humanity, and I would truly hate to see the world (and me) denied its countless benefits. But it doesn't know everything, and it shouldn't go thinking as if it does. Believing one's own propaganda is an unhelpful trap to fall into.
"Alternative" medicine doesn't have all the answers either, and in truth, is guilty of the same sins of arrogance as is the establishment.
But it does know some things that allopathic medicine doesn't, and some of the things it knows are truth whether medical science wants to accept them or not.
Somewhere between the extremes of opinion and methodology, lies Truth and the Useful Stuff.
If any one medical methodology were able to provide satisfaction for all, there would be no commercial demand for any other method. Plenty of people written off by one "side" have proven curable by the other, and vice versa.
If I were in the position of having to decide on whether or not to have the 'jabs' (which thank the Lord I'm not Sir) I would, based on an understanding built up over a long period, opt to forego the proffered immunisations in favour of other protective measures. That is a personal, informed decision. Others must arrive at their own, but in all fairness should, in making it, be allowed access to all the facts, not just some of them.
Good luck.
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The main question I have (and will be asking my MO next week when I line up for the jab) is does this vaccine protect against the 1300 strains of Anthrax in existence at the moment and is it effective in protecting against inhalation as well as cutaneous anthrax?
If not I am a bit dubious of having an injection that is possibly a "something is better than nothing " option.
Stopstart - your faith in the medical profession is admirable, I wish I was as confident in their mastering of medical science as you. I am not. I am fit and healthy now. If the outcome of taking these various concoctions changed that, what would medical science do for me then? (apart from ground me)
If not I am a bit dubious of having an injection that is possibly a "something is better than nothing " option.
Stopstart - your faith in the medical profession is admirable, I wish I was as confident in their mastering of medical science as you. I am not. I am fit and healthy now. If the outcome of taking these various concoctions changed that, what would medical science do for me then? (apart from ground me)
Champagne anyone...?
Sorry difar but I’m afraid your lack of faith in the medical profession is not something you’ll resolve trawling the internet. Talk to a doctor. They aren’t all part of the great conspiracy…….
No I don't believe that the vaccine does cover all the different mutations and manifestations of the anthrax lurgy. No vaccine will cover all strains. The vaccine will be targeted at the most common or the strain most likely to be encountered. I don't believe that it is intended as a "better-than-nothing" vaccine.
I don't have a blind faith in Medical Science and I am well aware that some drug companies may push profitable products ahead of more efficacious ones. That’s just big business I’m afraid.
On the other hand I am the son of a doctor, nephew to two doctors and the husband of a doctor. Perhaps this skews my opinion somewhat or perhaps it gives me more insight into how these people go about their work.
Dr StopStart's opinion is that if your not going to be exposed to anthrax then don't have the vaccine, not because it'll make your head fall off but because there's no point. Otherwise we'd all have our appendix and tonsils removed at birth just on the off chance they become infected etc and all be given 100s of vaccines also just on the off chance we are exposed to the diseases.
The are thousands of vaccines out there for thousands of diseases. We are only vaccinated against things that we may be exposed to. If we are running the risk of being exposed to anthrax then we should be vaccinated against it. The choice is ultimately yours, obviously, but if you are not vaccinated then the Service might see your deployment to a theatre where anthrax was a threat as too high a risk.
Since the Sierra Leone malaria business the MoD has gone overboard to ensure their personnel are properly protected against disease, wherever possible. Partially, as I say, to safeguard the operational efficiency of the force but also to cover their asses for when everybody starts to sue them – as seems de rigueur these days
Like I said, I base my opinions on what I know and have been told by professionals. I’m fortunate that I can ask Mrs StopStart – last thing she’s going to want is a drooling vegetable cluttering up the house if I have a vaccine which subsequently has some terrible side effect. She has nothing to gain and everything to lose by advising me to have a vaccine that may potentially do me great harm. I would like to think that someone with 8 years professional training, 8 years in the job and currently working in a auto-immune research job might be a more reliable source of information than Pprune or that daily RAF publication “BlokeSaid”. Her thoughts were “The anthrax vaccine that is a licenced product that has been used by vets and farm workers for nearly 30 years. If you’re going to be exposed to anthrax, then have the vaccine. If you’re not, then don’t bother. There’s no point having a sore arm for three days if you’re never going to be exposed. Now stop wasting your life on the internet and do the washing up.”
Wise words
BlueWolf, one would indeed be foolish to accept all that the Medical machine produces as gospel truth. As it stands, however, orthodox, clinical medicine provides far more answers for me than does alternative medicine. Until there is any real, documented proof that alternative therapies work then I’m afraid I will remain a sceptic.
As you rightly say, people should make up their own minds based on what information they can find and what they believe. Medical science can provide me with enough proof that many of it’s techniques and treatments do work. I know for a fact (as we all do) that there is much they do not understand. I also know that within orthodox medicine opinions are divided on many things. However the basic accepted tenets of medical science hold water for very many people across the spectrum and it is from these that their work develops.
To go back to the origins of it all, Monsieur Beauchamp’s initial theories on fermentation were correct. Pasteur’s were wrong. Pasteur may well have plagiarised his work on this subject but why then did he not go on to pinch the rest of his work? Perhaps Beauchamp hit lucky with the yeast thing however the rest of his theories have never been substantiated or proven in any way at all. I sense neither conspiracy nor cover up by the medical establishment over this just merely unproven theories. If a drug company could prove his theories and subsequently used them to cure cancer they’d be in for a whole pile of money. Seeing as money makes the world go round, I suspect if there was anything in it they’d have found it by now
Still happy to be proven wrong though.
