anthrax
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NAPS
Last time I took Naps it left me with the side effect of wetting my doss bag!!!( Sorry to make that public and all without the aid of beer?) At the time my Op Off, who was previously a Bio Chemist in civi street said - best to leave them in the packaging that they came in!!! I never did suffer the problem again (With out the aid of beer)
There I go again.
There I go again.
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The said Anthrax jab has been given to farmers and the like in civvy street for years. I believe nthat the current way we are being persauded is far better than the last effort during Grandy or come to think of it SL when Malaria tabs were issued 2 weeks after entering the area
Its a choice gents just like any other jab , but for once we will be given it on it's own with no others administered along to make up a nice cocktail that no one knows the side effects of.
So what happen if AL Q start spraying anthrax around the uk are you going to run to the medics then ?
On another note I've heard rumours of a signal about the life ex of some of these jabs may be questionable can anyone shed any light on this ?
All syntax errors are due to the fact I've ben sat at a bloody computer most of the day and I'm fed up with the bloody things !
Its a choice gents just like any other jab , but for once we will be given it on it's own with no others administered along to make up a nice cocktail that no one knows the side effects of.
So what happen if AL Q start spraying anthrax around the uk are you going to run to the medics then ?
On another note I've heard rumours of a signal about the life ex of some of these jabs may be questionable can anyone shed any light on this ?
All syntax errors are due to the fact I've ben sat at a bloody computer most of the day and I'm fed up with the bloody things !
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Bob thanks you for your kind replies. He went to a brief and was told the following. He has a week to decide having watched the video. He was very pleased about the level of information offered about anthrax, but wondered why he was not given the same amount of info about all the other jabs which prevent deadly bio agents from killing him. He has understood from the brief that he will be required to sign a form in a weeks time to say that he is a volunteer. This has vexed him, as when he attends a normal jab clinic(as a volunteer) the med centre does not demand that he sign a thing. So why sign a piece pf paper for this jab! Bob asks this question and is told that this is a new jab so consent is required! Not content with that answer, Bob asks whether his jab will be registered on SAMA along with his other jabs. He is told no, SAMA will not register it, but it will go in his jab book. Fine. HOWEVER, his consent form will go straight to Command Flight Medical, who will log that Bob is a willing, happy volunteer for said jab. Bob fully believes that MOD are acting on best information given at the time, but the signed consent form is the govt way of placing the dwang squarely at the feet of the consumer(should Bob wish to sue the ass off the MOD in subsequent years - if the advice given turns out to be rse)
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High Spirits, Gorilla
Anthrax, whooping cough and the plague have something of a stigma attached to them in time of conflict. Gulf Veterans Illness, anybody?
The window of one week between briefing and review is to allow you to discuss the vaccine with your partners or to research on the www. We have a duty of care to provide you with informed consent and force protection.
If men from the 1st Cannon Fodder Regt die of anthrax exposure after refusing the vaccine, questions get asked in Parliament, not just in court.
The record is kept for our protection as practitioners, a record is kept on SAMA, as with all 6 routine vaccinations. Why would the CFMO be informed? There is no hidden agenda here.
I have cross-clamped the aorta - I have control
Anthrax, whooping cough and the plague have something of a stigma attached to them in time of conflict. Gulf Veterans Illness, anybody?
The window of one week between briefing and review is to allow you to discuss the vaccine with your partners or to research on the www. We have a duty of care to provide you with informed consent and force protection.
If men from the 1st Cannon Fodder Regt die of anthrax exposure after refusing the vaccine, questions get asked in Parliament, not just in court.
The record is kept for our protection as practitioners, a record is kept on SAMA, as with all 6 routine vaccinations. Why would the CFMO be informed? There is no hidden agenda here.
I have cross-clamped the aorta - I have control
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Anton,
Bob must have been badly informed. He was told that the jab goes into the blue jab book, but NOT onto SAMA. His signature goes to CFMO according to the brief. Has Bob been mis-informed, it would not be the first time!
Bob must have been badly informed. He was told that the jab goes into the blue jab book, but NOT onto SAMA. His signature goes to CFMO according to the brief. Has Bob been mis-informed, it would not be the first time!
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Bob,
Had a brief recently and the bottom line is the decision to have the jab or not remains confidential. The briefing was oriented towards convincing people to take the offer of the jab. On reflection considering the evidence, I think I will be having the anthrax vaccination. As with any vaccination there are potential side effects but most of them are merely an inconvenience.
GB2
Had a brief recently and the bottom line is the decision to have the jab or not remains confidential. The briefing was oriented towards convincing people to take the offer of the jab. On reflection considering the evidence, I think I will be having the anthrax vaccination. As with any vaccination there are potential side effects but most of them are merely an inconvenience.
GB2
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Call me a cynic but the requirement to show me a video to 'persuade' me to take the jab is very suspect. When I went to the Doc and told him that I didn't want it, he replied 'good'!. Now that's got to be worrying.
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While I have the time to have the injection in isolation and having considered the info available I will be having the anthrax jabs. I'm not absolutely convinced that being jabbed with the complete cocktail of MOD recommended vaccines in one go can be good for you.
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High Spirits et al
Yes, Bob was misinformed or, most probably, misunderstood the information provided.
Remember, SAMA is also an audit tool. We have to be able to demonstrate that we are meeting policy.
Interesting to note that there are several people agreeing to vaccination. As for the medic who is alleged to have said "good" to a patient declining the vaccine, I suspect it was because it meant less management, rather than any likelihood of clinical manifestation.
I have cross clamped the aorta - I have control
Yes, Bob was misinformed or, most probably, misunderstood the information provided.
Remember, SAMA is also an audit tool. We have to be able to demonstrate that we are meeting policy.
Interesting to note that there are several people agreeing to vaccination. As for the medic who is alleged to have said "good" to a patient declining the vaccine, I suspect it was because it meant less management, rather than any likelihood of clinical manifestation.
I have cross clamped the aorta - I have control
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Anthrax Vaccine
Interesting. Several commentators have noted that Anthrax is a licenced vaccine; in fact it is in common use amongst livestock workers for, oh, the last 40 years. Adverse/anaphalactic reactions are extremely rare, yet personnel see to see a 'conspiracy' forcing troops to take a course of pre-treatment.
Here's the rub:
Point 1: UK forces are faced by some pretty despotic characters who we are collectively backing into a corner.
Point 2: Anthrax is the terror weapon of choice amongst malcontent despots. Why? A culture lab could be set up in a garage and the culture medium could be purchased in a supermarket (and is frequently spread on toast). The seed organism is readily available in many parts of the world (esp eastern Europe, Asia, Russia), unlike, say, smallpox. A certain amount of skill is required to weaponise the spores (ie produce a fine enough powder that is dispersible), but not beyond the military industrial capability of any 'rogue' states, in fact verification of 'dual use' bio-chemical facilities is a major problem.
Point 3: The soft-kill effects of a release are enormous - think back to last year - mail networks parilysed; Govenrment departments closed for weeks on end (hang on - did I say this was a problem?).
Point 4: Vaccination is proven and post-exposure treatment with antibiotics (the eponymous 'Cipro') is effective if given earlier enough.
Point 5: Both pre-and post exposure treatments are available OTC (over the counter) at modest cost.
Leap of Faith: The MOD has a duty of care to protect deployable personnel against a credible threat - so what should it do, given the above?
Whereas I could not condone 'mass medication' (ie by coercion) I believe that only the most clinically dull person would reject the innoculation. Yes, I have had the course of injections and it has been interetsing to serve alongside US troops who were impressed with our preparedness. Another advantage we have is that personnel (especially in the RAF) are disinclined to self-medicate; antibiotics can only be dprescribed by a licenced medical practioner. I read a particularly interesting article about the thousands of US citizens (and soldiers amongst them) who took Cipro obtained without prescription in Mexico (and most probably counterfeit) as a prophylactic, thereby ultimately reducing their resitance to Anthrax if exposed, and incidentally reducing the effectiveness of the therapy when exposed to other, and infinitely more common, pathogens.
This isn't the party line - if you have doubts about some of our adversaries, read the International Institute for Strategic Studies report on WMD (Sep 02) and the UK Government Iraqi dossier. For a little light bed-time reading, try 'A Higher Form of Killing' by Paxman and Harris (2002). Guaranteed to upset your weetabix.
Here's the rub:
Point 1: UK forces are faced by some pretty despotic characters who we are collectively backing into a corner.
Point 2: Anthrax is the terror weapon of choice amongst malcontent despots. Why? A culture lab could be set up in a garage and the culture medium could be purchased in a supermarket (and is frequently spread on toast). The seed organism is readily available in many parts of the world (esp eastern Europe, Asia, Russia), unlike, say, smallpox. A certain amount of skill is required to weaponise the spores (ie produce a fine enough powder that is dispersible), but not beyond the military industrial capability of any 'rogue' states, in fact verification of 'dual use' bio-chemical facilities is a major problem.
Point 3: The soft-kill effects of a release are enormous - think back to last year - mail networks parilysed; Govenrment departments closed for weeks on end (hang on - did I say this was a problem?).
Point 4: Vaccination is proven and post-exposure treatment with antibiotics (the eponymous 'Cipro') is effective if given earlier enough.
Point 5: Both pre-and post exposure treatments are available OTC (over the counter) at modest cost.
Leap of Faith: The MOD has a duty of care to protect deployable personnel against a credible threat - so what should it do, given the above?
Whereas I could not condone 'mass medication' (ie by coercion) I believe that only the most clinically dull person would reject the innoculation. Yes, I have had the course of injections and it has been interetsing to serve alongside US troops who were impressed with our preparedness. Another advantage we have is that personnel (especially in the RAF) are disinclined to self-medicate; antibiotics can only be dprescribed by a licenced medical practioner. I read a particularly interesting article about the thousands of US citizens (and soldiers amongst them) who took Cipro obtained without prescription in Mexico (and most probably counterfeit) as a prophylactic, thereby ultimately reducing their resitance to Anthrax if exposed, and incidentally reducing the effectiveness of the therapy when exposed to other, and infinitely more common, pathogens.
This isn't the party line - if you have doubts about some of our adversaries, read the International Institute for Strategic Studies report on WMD (Sep 02) and the UK Government Iraqi dossier. For a little light bed-time reading, try 'A Higher Form of Killing' by Paxman and Harris (2002). Guaranteed to upset your weetabix.
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It seems to me that if you want to vaccinate yourself against an known threat (anthrax) with a tried and tested jab (farmers!) - and provide your Command with a serviceable officer following an anthrax attack! - then that seems to be the sensible thing to do - so put up with the possible short term and local effects of 3 anthrax jabs and get that protection!
For "Bob" and those people considering refusing the offer of the jab they should read this month's National Geographic which is not so confident that contracted Anthrax can be dealt with with antibiotics - but any advice from our medical experts would be welcome here! :o :o
As I shortly move closer to the sun and sand, I have just been given the option on my jabs; my only concern is that the vaccine will be effective against the particular strain of Anthrax that we could encounter - any more medical advice again welcome here
:o :o
Remember it's only a small prick! Ouch - that hurt!
For "Bob" and those people considering refusing the offer of the jab they should read this month's National Geographic which is not so confident that contracted Anthrax can be dealt with with antibiotics - but any advice from our medical experts would be welcome here! :o :o
As I shortly move closer to the sun and sand, I have just been given the option on my jabs; my only concern is that the vaccine will be effective against the particular strain of Anthrax that we could encounter - any more medical advice again welcome here
:o :o
Remember it's only a small prick! Ouch - that hurt!
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The advice the medics are currently putting out is that the vaccine is fully tried and tested against dermal anthrax, but the difficulty is proving the effectiveness of the vaccine against the airborne spore variant. You can't exactly ask one of Porton Down guinea pigs to "just breathe this in!"
For what it's worth, I've been to the Gulf repeatedly - I've had the course of jabs and although I felt sick as a dog after the fourth one, this is one I WILL be keeping in date.
CV
For what it's worth, I've been to the Gulf repeatedly - I've had the course of jabs and although I felt sick as a dog after the fourth one, this is one I WILL be keeping in date.
CV
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Unless you have had the annual booster since you first had the course of jabs, you have to start
all..........
over........
again.
Its still no fun the second time round, but necessary I feel.
all..........
over........
again.
Its still no fun the second time round, but necessary I feel.
Lupus Domesticus
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Gentlemen
I have noticed a somewhat disturbing trend in this (unmoderated) forum that when I post comments of a certain type, containing information which is not classified but which may be generally not known, that the threads concerned tend to disappear without trace fairly shortly afterwards.
Maybe this is coincidence. Maybe I'm some sort of narcissistic conspiracy theorist. Maybe the earth is flat.
I'm not about to get into biochemistry here, though I could.
But tell your mate Bob....if they can't tell you what is in the thing they want to inject you with, and they can't promise that it is the same as the "safe" thing that has been tested on abbatoir workers for 40 years, and they want you to sign a form before you have it, and the form will disappear but your consent will remain, and the Doc in whom you trust says he is happy that you are going to decline.... Bob, don't have the injection.
It's not going to offer you protection against anything that you are likely to come up against. It is likely to have other effects, some of which may not show up for some years. You are already putting your life and limb on the line for Queen and country. You are not required to also place on that line the lives and health of your family, or the integrity of your inherited genetics.
True, Gulf War Syndrome had something to do with things that were injected into people, but these were not solely to blame. Some of the other influences were things which emanated from aeroplanes, and not all of them were chemical in nature.
Why are they asking Bob to have this thing when it hasn't yet been tested, when the purported threat hasn't been properly identified let alone proven, when existing physical barriers provide a more than adequate level of protection anyway, and when the probability of exposure will be minimised by the tactics of the campaign?
Whatever did happen to the various nuclear war threads?
Happy contemplating....
I have noticed a somewhat disturbing trend in this (unmoderated) forum that when I post comments of a certain type, containing information which is not classified but which may be generally not known, that the threads concerned tend to disappear without trace fairly shortly afterwards.
Maybe this is coincidence. Maybe I'm some sort of narcissistic conspiracy theorist. Maybe the earth is flat.
I'm not about to get into biochemistry here, though I could.
But tell your mate Bob....if they can't tell you what is in the thing they want to inject you with, and they can't promise that it is the same as the "safe" thing that has been tested on abbatoir workers for 40 years, and they want you to sign a form before you have it, and the form will disappear but your consent will remain, and the Doc in whom you trust says he is happy that you are going to decline.... Bob, don't have the injection.
It's not going to offer you protection against anything that you are likely to come up against. It is likely to have other effects, some of which may not show up for some years. You are already putting your life and limb on the line for Queen and country. You are not required to also place on that line the lives and health of your family, or the integrity of your inherited genetics.
True, Gulf War Syndrome had something to do with things that were injected into people, but these were not solely to blame. Some of the other influences were things which emanated from aeroplanes, and not all of them were chemical in nature.
Why are they asking Bob to have this thing when it hasn't yet been tested, when the purported threat hasn't been properly identified let alone proven, when existing physical barriers provide a more than adequate level of protection anyway, and when the probability of exposure will be minimised by the tactics of the campaign?
Whatever did happen to the various nuclear war threads?
Happy contemplating....
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The jab cycle goes:
1st Jab, 3 week wait, 2nd jab, 3 week wait, 3rd jab.
Wait 6 months then 4th jab, then one each year after that.
If you miss the 6 month or annual booster then theoretically you should start all over again, although it seems to be down to the Doc or Nursing Officer that assesses you as to whether that happens or not.
The vaccine is the one that has been used by farm and abbatoir workers for some time, and offers protection against the dermal Anthrax variants - if you breathe in the spores then who can say what protection it will give to the softer and much more delicate lung tissue?
Personally, I'd rather have some protection than none at all.
CV
1st Jab, 3 week wait, 2nd jab, 3 week wait, 3rd jab.
Wait 6 months then 4th jab, then one each year after that.
If you miss the 6 month or annual booster then theoretically you should start all over again, although it seems to be down to the Doc or Nursing Officer that assesses you as to whether that happens or not.
The vaccine is the one that has been used by farm and abbatoir workers for some time, and offers protection against the dermal Anthrax variants - if you breathe in the spores then who can say what protection it will give to the softer and much more delicate lung tissue?
Personally, I'd rather have some protection than none at all.
CV
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I for one will certainly NOT be having the Anthrax jab. The reasoning behind this is the fact that it has SQUALENE in it which was added as an adjuvant that increases the immune response.
For those of you who do not know squalene is potentially poisonous. Although prodeuced naturally in the body when cholesterol is turned to fat, if too much is produced (or introduced into the body) squalene anti-bodes are produced. The worst thing to note is that it is the antibodies that effect the mylene membrane in the spinal cord that protects the nerve fibres and prevents the transmission of nerve impulses to and from the brain.
For those of you who do not know squalene is potentially poisonous. Although prodeuced naturally in the body when cholesterol is turned to fat, if too much is produced (or introduced into the body) squalene anti-bodes are produced. The worst thing to note is that it is the antibodies that effect the mylene membrane in the spinal cord that protects the nerve fibres and prevents the transmission of nerve impulses to and from the brain.
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Not sure now...
Having my 1st anthrax jab this week, supposedly. Just done a quick Google on SQUALENE and have produced interesting result:
"Squalene is an oily substance that easily absorbs oxygen
and is presumed to help deliver oxygen throughout the body
to the cell tissues that need it" - Health Web Site
"ANTI-SQUALENE ANTIBODIES LINK GULF WAR SYNDROME TO ANTHRAX VACCINE. ... " - Another web site
So is it good or is it bad? There shouldn't even be an issue here it should be clear cut. Oh sorry I forgot!
"Squalene is an oily substance that easily absorbs oxygen
and is presumed to help deliver oxygen throughout the body
to the cell tissues that need it" - Health Web Site
"ANTI-SQUALENE ANTIBODIES LINK GULF WAR SYNDROME TO ANTHRAX VACCINE. ... " - Another web site
So is it good or is it bad? There shouldn't even be an issue here it should be clear cut. Oh sorry I forgot!
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Squalene doesn't rate a mention on the "ingredients" of the anthrax vaccine as given at the brief today...most of the cautionary advice/stats seem to eminate from the USA who use a slightly different form of the vaccine, wondered if the squalene was an ingredient of a US version and not UK?