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‘Stop choosing useless white male pilots’, RAF told

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‘Stop choosing useless white male pilots’, RAF told

Old 1st Jun 2023, 14:40
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Surely, the effort should be made to attract candidates for application from the target groups rather than negatively select those who do apply. Selection should be about selection of the best, regardless of gender or race. Anything else is doing Vladimir Putin and Xi Xing Ping's work for them. The aim of the RAF in peacetime should be to train for war. It seems some people at the top have forgotten this.
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Old 1st Jun 2023, 14:57
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
I cannot see a problem with that
Originally Posted by Sue Vêtements
...other than it's saying they'll be limited to a support role
I really hate it where people pick a couple of words out of a statement, I was adressing simply the colour and sex of those on the poster, if you read what I put it was about colour and women in the forces and targetting your market, nothing to do with the roles they would play.

I cannot see a problem with that, bar Inuits in that time period very few would be any other colour in Canada, its just targetting the mass market, similar if you were running a campaign in the Caribbean you would be targetting the local population, so that would be mainly Caribbean men and women on the poster... its all about context, you would not fill a canadian recruitment poster with coloured individuals if next to none lived there.
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Old 1st Jun 2023, 14:59
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Originally Posted by gsa
My view with the lack of recruits is the whole, and I’m sorry to have to say it, Old Boys Club attitude in the military. We all know that the RAF are a white middle class organisation and you can’t change 100 years of history overnight or without causing headlines.

We have a 15 year old girl, she’s bright, works hard at school and is in the air cadets and her aim was to go to the RAF as a pilot and we give her as much encouragement as we can. BUT she lost all interest when a Corporal on the Typhoon display team said to her last year “ You’ll never fly with the RAF as you’re a girl”

Anybody with the ability should be encouraged to apply and not be penalised by Sex, Colour or Gender but they shouldn’t be given any special treatment and there should be a level playing field for them all. This isn’t the 40s or even the 80s, times have changed and people have to really get over the prejudices of the past and move on.
Have you tried showing her that what she was told is nonsense? There are interviews with female RAF pilots on Aircrew Interview (Youtube) which would be far more useful to her than the opinion of a moron.
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Old 1st Jun 2023, 15:15
  #84 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Ohrly
Have you tried showing her that what she was told is nonsense? There are interviews with female RAF pilots on Aircrew Interview (Youtube) which would be far more useful to her than the opinion of a moron.
We’re slowly turning her back into a positive view, but as lots have said, it only takes one in uniform that’s the voice of the service to put a doubt in someone’s mind. At least she’s still doing her gliding and a bit of rotary to keep her busy.
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Old 1st Jun 2023, 15:41
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Mandy Hickson could be used as an example of the possibility for female pilots in the RAF. She has authored a very readable book about her experiences: "An Officer, not a Gentleman"
on-line interview here:
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Old 1st Jun 2023, 16:01
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Originally Posted by gsa

We have a 15 year old girl, she’s bright, works hard at school and is in the air cadets and her aim was to go to the RAF as a pilot and we give her as much encouragement as we can. BUT she lost all interest when a Corporal on the Typhoon display team said to her last year “ You’ll never fly with the RAF as you’re a girl”

on.
I must say I am absolutely astonished by this story. My service ceased in 2000 and women aircrew were already “ not an issue”, it has only become an issue now because of the culture wars raging all around us. If the person described was really a Cpl on the Typhoon force he (I presume) would have strapped in plenty of female pilots, including a female Squadron Commander. Are things really going backwards so fast that people think like that again?
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Old 1st Jun 2023, 17:06
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
So the solution is?
The solution is to recruit those with the best abilities for the job, irrespective of gender or race. Forget any “woke” targets.
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Old 1st Jun 2023, 17:21
  #88 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by gsa
My view with the lack of recruits is the whole, and I’m sorry to have to say it, Old Boys Club attitude in the military. We all know that the RAF are a white middle class organisation and you can’t change 100 years of history overnight or without causing headlines.

We have a 15 year old girl, she’s bright, works hard at school and is in the air cadets and her aim was to go to the RAF as a pilot and we give her as much encouragement as we can. BUT she lost all interest when a Corporal on the Typhoon display team said to her last year “ You’ll never fly with the RAF as you’re a girl”

Anybody with the ability should be encouraged to apply and not be penalised by Sex, Colour or Gender but they shouldn’t be given any special treatment and there should be a level playing field for them all. This isn’t the 40s or even the 80s, times have changed and people have to really get over the prejudices of the past and move on.
I’m very surprised and disappointed to read what the corporal said. I helped in the basic flying training of one young lady who flew the RAF’s first all female fast jet sortie, plus at least one more young lady who went in to fly SAR helicopters. They got there on personal merit, not because of some woke agenda. That was back in the early 1990s, for goodness’ sake!

My own daughter became the senior cadet at our local Air Training Corps squadron and went on to do very well as a member of a University Air Squadron whilst at Uni. I had high hopes that she would make an excellent pilot (she is a natural car driver) but she decided that the RAF wasn’t for her. Possibly because she went on to get an honours first in psychology!
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Old 1st Jun 2023, 17:53
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Pale and male

I never served. But I learnt to fly courtesy of a Flying Scholarship so long ago that I passed through the hallowed portals of OASC Biggin Hill. And I was told that my chances of selection for an RAF career would improve if I learnt to ride a horse and took up public speaking. Is that attitude still prevalent ?
A BAME friend who joined the RAF was shunned by his family for some time because it was not considered a sufficiently financially rewarding career. Go to any civilian flying club and it is mainly OWM. That is the demographic that wants to fly.
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Old 1st Jun 2023, 18:05
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Originally Posted by kms901
Go to any civilian flying club and it is mainly OWM. That is the demographic that wants to fly.
How much of that is because people who aren't OWM don't think they'll fit in? I've been peripherally involved in a large diversity initiative for a (non-aviation) sport that's currently dominated by white men, and it turns out that quite a lot of prospective female and non-white participants find that very off-putting, with phrases like "toxic masculinity" appearing again and again.
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Old 1st Jun 2023, 18:10
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Some people want to become footballers and rappers. Some are musical, some artistic. Some want to fly.
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Old 1st Jun 2023, 18:17
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Originally Posted by gsa
times have changed and people have to really get over the prejudices of the past and move on.
So we now have to accept the prejudices of the present, such as those against white males?
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Old 1st Jun 2023, 18:20
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One of the most feared and well-regarded “aggressor” pilots on A4s at NAS Oceana in the late 80’s was a lovely girl called Lucy, callsign “Juicy”. Gave us a good thrashing - in the purely ACM sense! Certainly sharpened the chaps up.

In a later career, I flew with many members of the opposite sex and and only found one that I regarded as sub-standard. As a rule they were extremely competent and very well liked by the crew. My final trip in the -400 was with one such delightful young lady and she brought me a massive cake in the shape of a 747!

Mog
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Old 1st Jun 2023, 18:40
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Originally Posted by Timelord
I must say I am absolutely astonished by this story. My service ceased in 2000 and women aircrew were already “ not an issue”, it has only become an issue now because of the culture wars raging all around us. If the person described was really a Cpl on the Typhoon force he (I presume) would have strapped in plenty of female pilots, including a female Squadron Commander. Are things really going backwards so fast that people think like that again?
No they're not going backwards so fast. The majority of people still couldn't care less about people's personal details as long as they pull their weight at work. Female aircrew are still not an issue, the novelty has long since worn off. If the story is correct, then this Cpl is highly likely to have never known an RAF without female aircrew, so the attitude is puzzling. Maybe a reservist or member of a Trade Group that doesn't engage with aircrew? Could've been the PR Team element rather than one of the techs on the Display Team.

Not a representative viewpoint anyway.
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Old 1st Jun 2023, 18:49
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Sir,

Has the RAF gone down the road of one of these damnable suicide cults that seem intent on their own destruction?
Insanity seems complete within the organisation.
I ask only for information.

Yours,

Auxtank
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Old 1st Jun 2023, 18:53
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Originally Posted by tubby linton
The Chief of the Air Staff twitter account is now blocking people for raising this issue. It really is not a good look for a senior military leader to appear to be unresponsive to criticism.
https://twitter.com/archrose90/statu...E45vRCEVK1CH9Q
You do realise it isn't him ffs, there is a lackey running it with a team that decides what to put out.
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Old 1st Jun 2023, 18:58
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Originally Posted by Jobza Guddun
If the story is correct, then this Cpl is highly likely to have never known an RAF without female aircrew, so the attitude is puzzling. Maybe a reservist or member of a Trade Group that doesn't engage with aircrew? Could've been the PR Team element rather than one of the techs on the Display Team.

Not a representative viewpoint anyway.
More likely the Cpl was just a bell end.
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Old 1st Jun 2023, 19:35
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Originally Posted by downsizer
You do realise it isn't him ffs, there is a lackey running it with a team that decides what to put out.
Well, yes, quite (ffs), do credit most of us with the grey matter required to work out that that is where this whole damnable nonsense is coming from.
Question remains; What on Earth are you lot who still have irons in the fire going to do about it?

It really won't do, you know.
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Old 1st Jun 2023, 20:14
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Originally Posted by kms901
That is the demographic that wants to fly.
...or it's the one that can afford to fly!
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Old 1st Jun 2023, 20:20
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"useless white male pilots" sounds to me like the words of an embittered female bluntie with a well-developed chip.
Is this S.Ldr male or female?
And how long will she remain in employment before dismissal SNLR and no pension?
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