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‘Stop choosing useless white male pilots’, RAF told

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‘Stop choosing useless white male pilots’, RAF told

Old 1st Jun 2023, 20:32
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Originally Posted by gsa
We’re slowly turning her back into a positive view, but as lots have said, it only takes one in uniform that’s the voice of the service to put a doubt in someone’s mind. At least she’s still doing her gliding and a bit of rotary to keep her busy.
GSA - if she'd to speak directly to some female aircrew who routinely kick ass, DM me, more than happy to set up an intro.
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Old 1st Jun 2023, 20:42
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Originally Posted by Sue Vêtements
...or it's the one that can afford to fly!
How do you mean afford to fly? Did you ever watch the TV series 'Fighter Pilot' back in the early '80s, me neither, but it was well publicised. The one chap out of all those followed through from the start of flying training was a Yorkshire man, John Mcrea, who listed as his previous occupations, milkman, farmhand and coalman. I never knew that personal wealth was a prerequisite to join the RAF as aircrew, just the necessary academic qualifications, medical fitness and the ability to impress the review board, with your depth of character and ability to solve practical and written aptitude tests. Such tests being designed to separate the easily flummoxed from the sort of dependable individual sought.

FB

PS My own brother was an SAC Supplier, his youngest son, although not aircrew, is an RAF Regiment Squadron Leader.
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Old 1st Jun 2023, 22:18
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Originally Posted by Finningley Boy
I never knew that personal wealth was a prerequisite to join the RAF as aircrew, just the necessary academic qualifications, medical fitness and the ability to impress the review board, with your depth of character and ability to solve practical and written aptitude tests.
You misunderstood; the original post was

Go to any civilian flying club and it is mainly OWM. That is the demographic that wants to fly.
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Old 1st Jun 2023, 23:28
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Originally Posted by downsizer
You do realise it isn't him ffs, there is a lackey running it with a team that decides what to put out.
I suggest that you have a look at the owner of the account that these lackeys blocked obviously with the approval of the blocker. It is still phenomenally poor that the chief of the air staff account is blocking UK citizens but given everything else that the current incumbent has failed at it is probably small beer.
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Old 2nd Jun 2023, 00:50
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I bet if the U.K. was under the real threat of invasion, all this target crap would be the first thing to be thrown out of the window.


..

Last edited by NutLoose; 2nd Jun 2023 at 01:02.
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Old 2nd Jun 2023, 01:53
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
I bet if the U.K. was under the real threat of invasion, all this target crap would be the first thing to be thrown out of the window.


..
But by then too late.
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Old 2nd Jun 2023, 02:15
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Very sad state of affairs for the RAF. It seems we have gone full circle from the days 80 years ago when overconfident US pilots were told IJN pilots were all half blind bespectacled myopic pilots flying in aircraft made of cardboard and bamboo frame... This kind of race based comments and beliefs turned out to have dreadful costs and I believe the same teachings still apply today as enormous harm has been inflicted to the integrity of the RAF ab initio selection. It is already hard enough in most western countries to find recruits willing to embrace a career in the air forces where much more lucrative options are readily available to all races and genders.
Alleged discrimination in favour of women and minorities are unlikely to produce the expected results anyway.
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Old 2nd Jun 2023, 05:56
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Originally Posted by kms901
I never served. But I learnt to fly courtesy of a Flying Scholarship so long ago that I passed through the hallowed portals of OASC Biggin Hill. And I was told that my chances of selection for an RAF career would improve if I learnt to ride a horse and took up public speaking. Is that attitude still prevalent ?
A BAME friend who joined the RAF was shunned by his family for some time because it was not considered a sufficiently financially rewarding career. Go to any civilian flying club and it is mainly OWM. That is the demographic that wants to fly.
I went through OASC in 1973 as a working class kid with a barely understandable accent (Glaswegian) and passed officer aircrew selection
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Old 2nd Jun 2023, 06:13
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Pardon my ignorance here but wrt the term ‘OWM’ - I think I can guess the WM but what does the ‘O’ stand for please?

I have obviously led a sheltered life!
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Old 2nd Jun 2023, 07:04
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Originally Posted by BANANASBANANAS
Pardon my ignorance here but wrt the term ‘OWM’ - I think I can guess the WM but what does the ‘O’ stand for please?

I have obviously led a sheltered life!
Old or older
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Old 2nd Jun 2023, 07:10
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It defies belief that CAS, and PM for that matter, use Twitter in the first place. Don’t they learn from the problems it caused Trump and Johnson ?
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Old 2nd Jun 2023, 07:29
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Many of us OWM were once YWM and not useless since we passed OASC and had full careers as RAF pilots

I was landscape gardener before I joined, had never flown before and definitely couldn't ride a horse
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Old 2nd Jun 2023, 07:43
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
Many of us OWM were once YWM and not useless since we passed OASC and had full careers as RAF pilots

I was landscape gardener before I joined, had never flown before and definitely couldn't ride a horse
Similar story. I was a VYWM (18) when I started at Cranwell but I had still managed (and indeed, had needed) to have a myriad of mundane weekend and holiday jobs since the age of 12 - most of which would have been regarded as very ‘unofficerlike’ I think.
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Old 2nd Jun 2023, 07:43
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Originally Posted by ShyTorque
The solution is to recruit those with the best abilities for the job, irrespective of gender or race. Forget any “woke” targets.
I'm sure we all agree, but they have to apply in the first place - that's clearly not happening, what needs to change to increase the pool of talent available to select from?
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Old 2nd Jun 2023, 08:39
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
I'm sure we all agree, but they have to apply in the first place - that's clearly not happening, what needs to change to increase the pool of talent available to select from?

I agree but to be fair getting anyone to apply to join the armed forces these days seems almost impossible.

Of all my family, contacts, neighbours, social media etc there is a single person who is contemplating a career in the military........................ and he'll be the first one in over 10 years if he does join.
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Old 2nd Jun 2023, 08:47
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SWBKCB

Is anyone actually able to answer the question of whether we have, or are about to, run out of suitable white male volunteers? Are the current crop of white males actually useless and failing to make it through selection or flying training?

We keep hearing about how the RAF needs to select from a wider pool to ensure the best talent is identified and selected. Surely the best pool to select from is the ones who want to do it. Not the pool of people who have had to have their arms twisted.

I believe that there truly are some talented people out there who haven’t previously thought about joining the military and that they would be an asset to the organisation. But, in the meantime, why not just select those that want to join.

BV
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Old 2nd Jun 2023, 09:01
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking
Is anyone actually able to answer the question of whether we have, or are about to, run out of suitable white male volunteers? Are the current crop of white males actually useless and failing to make it through selection or flying training?

We keep hearing about how the RAF needs to select from a wider pool to ensure the best talent is identified and selected. Surely the best pool to select from is the ones who want to do it. Not the pool of people who have had to have their arms twisted.

I believe that there truly are some talented people out there who haven’t previously thought about joining the military and that they would be an asset to the organisation. But, in the meantime, why not just select those that want to join.

BV
Started to go downhill from a recruitment perspective when they went all woke with their adverts IMHO. Rubbish like ‘you don’t have to be a pilot to fly in the RAF’ with short clips of people chopping potatoes and laying out knives and forks. The RAF is about flying aircraft and the recruitment adverts should unashamedly put that front and centre with some stunning and exciting aerial footage showing all the absolutely amazing things you get to do with aircraft in the RAF you cannot so anywhere else.

The RAF barely puts any adverts out now, when they do they are boring, bland, woke nonsense.
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Old 2nd Jun 2023, 09:15
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M0nkfish

I agree with you. However, in order to get through my days without grinding my teeth down I need to go back to remembering two key things.

1. I’m not in the RAF any more so I needn’t worry what they’re up to and I have no power to change it if I did.

2. Times have changed and recruitment policies and demographics have changed so I should stop concerning myself with stuff that won’t affect me.

Best of luck to the RAF and, for the love of God, can someone find this Sqn Ldr moron named in the article and give him a good hard kick in the stones. I’m sure there are a bunch of white male pilots who could do a pretty good job of doing that even if they are, allegedly, not useful for anything else.

BV
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Old 2nd Jun 2023, 09:53
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I don't know if it has changed in the last 2 years since my youngest went to OASC - he didn't pass but the Sqn Ldr in charge told me that even though the pass mark was 120 (IIRC) they weren't actually selecting below 145.

Now I have no idea how relevant the tests are to what an RAF pilot is expected to do nowadays but if you have a pass mark and people achieve it, why filter further?

You are denying suitably gifted people the chance and creating an elitist system - no wonder people don't want to join.

By setting the bar very high and then failing to put them through the training system in a reasonable time frame - you have two elements that might just show why recruitment is an issue.
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Old 2nd Jun 2023, 09:56
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BV,
I would suggest that as the RAF has not raised its maximum age for Pilot applications, there are still enough enthusiastic, eligible and qualified individuals applying (when the windows are open that is) and willing to suffer the currently sclerotic and torturous journey that is MFTS to fly one of His Majesty's aircraft…When Wigston started off on this crusade (can we say that?) I was fully supportive. The RAF of the future doesn't need the same skill sets as the RAF of the 1970s. The aircraft are far easier to fly, but the mission complexity and systems have become far more difficult to manage and master. We need less pure 'stick and rudder' aptitude and more STEM-based capacity and SA. My own kids are, currently, doing well at Uni - including in STEM subjects such as computing/digital technology and have not the merest flicker of interest in serving. The Armed Forces are facing a stiff challenge for these youngsters from IT, communications and Social Media companies - in fact my son received a 'cadetship' from a major tech firm, which paid him a salary at Uni and covered his tuition fees. Four years, good degree, starting salary north of £35k and no student debt. For somebody that doesn't want to 'march up and down the square', it's a compelling offer. I had hoped Wigston's mission was to encourage and target STEM individuals to run our cyber capabilities, operate our AI-supported battle networks and operate (note, not 'fly') the Combat platforms of the future - and to go into areas of our society, including BAME groups, that have traditionally not considered the RAF as a viable, indeed 'respectable', career to find them. Sadly, my ignorance is laid bare. It's clearly little more than an attempt for a conspiracy of officers, throughout the CoC, to find a bandwagon to leap on to accelerate their careers by filling utterly arbitrary targets to enable KPIs on OJARs to be 'ticked' and for ex-CAS to preen himself in front of his political masters…and in doing so, it does little if anything to further the cause of equality in the Service.
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