Ukraine War Thread Part 2
I am not criticising them.
I'm just saying that I think its kinda pointless as any sort of progress marker if we don't have other side to compare. Doesn't really make difference if enemy lost XYZ if you lost the same.
Not to mention that we have no idea how accurate this data is in the first place (coming from either side).
And I said this same thing way back when he posted one of the first datasets
I'm just saying that I think its kinda pointless as any sort of progress marker if we don't have other side to compare. Doesn't really make difference if enemy lost XYZ if you lost the same.
Not to mention that we have no idea how accurate this data is in the first place (coming from either side).
And I said this same thing way back when he posted one of the first datasets
It is true the original drone or Queen Bee Tiger Moth was radio (or was that wirelessly) controlled. My understanding of a modern drone is an autonomous device that you tell where to go rather than fly.
It's all semantics of course. I'll go with whichever one is correct.
Perhaps the time for such information is after the battle, when the battle is won but not for now. Lets not help the enemy. Loose lips and all that.
I think we can all agree that it's not going `Vlad the Insaner's` way.
I am not criticising them.
I'm just saying that I think its kinda pointless as any sort of progress marker if we don't have other side to compare. Doesn't really make difference if enemy lost XYZ if you lost the same.
Not to mention that we have no idea how accurate this data is in the first place (coming from either side).
And I said this same thing way back when he posted one of the first datasets
I'm just saying that I think its kinda pointless as any sort of progress marker if we don't have other side to compare. Doesn't really make difference if enemy lost XYZ if you lost the same.
Not to mention that we have no idea how accurate this data is in the first place (coming from either side).
And I said this same thing way back when he posted one of the first datasets
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If you know of credible estimates for Ukrainian losses you can post them if you want. As far as accuracy is concerned, I'm prepared to accept they're in the ballpark; certainly the big ticket items are verifiable, and Putin's need to mobilise conscripts, criminals and foreign mercenaries suggests the manpower losses are very large.
Telegram is a different matter entirely. Plenty of Ukranian death and destruction to be seen on there.
I think the Ukranians are paying a greater price than many realise for the world's half-hearted support, and the world should know that, and feel the bitterness, anger and shame as they watch the many, many videos out there of Ukranians being killed by Russian drones.
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I have made the same comment over the months and I think it is a valid comment.
Perhaps the time for such information is after the battle, when the battle is won but not for now. Lets not help the enemy. Loose lips and all that.
I think we can all agree that it's not going `Vlad the Insaner's` way.
Perhaps the time for such information is after the battle, when the battle is won but not for now. Lets not help the enemy. Loose lips and all that.
I think we can all agree that it's not going `Vlad the Insaner's` way.
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Nowhere to run, two Russians up a huge mast are chased around the platform by a suicide drone.
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I can't see any way that information is helping the enemy : can you expand on that ? If you follow the figures, then the raw numbers do give an indication of the intensity of the (overall ) fighting i.e. anything over 800 casualties is above the daily norm and indicated higher levels of action. Also, other monitors do give Ukrainian losses and they currently show UKA losses of vehicles are miniscule compared to Russian indicating UKA doing little other than defending.( see link 07:50 ) and Russkis bleeding very badly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrj8kNLU0K0&t=841s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrj8kNLU0K0&t=841s
Plus it does your troops moral no good, nor those back home to show how many they are losing, nor for recruitment.
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Tabs please !
I think Vlad knows how many helicopters he has lost. If the correct figure is 20 more or 20 less, it changes nothing. The key data is the trend.
What is of real value is that the numbers may be read by ordinary Russians in Moscow. In the absence of any more reliable data, it's arguably the best picture of how the "special military operation" is going. Losing a fair proportion of your Black Sea fleet to a country without a navy is a powerful message.
There's nothing in the data that strengthens Putin's hand. The view in the West is that he's getting his @rse kicked at the expense of conscripts, criminals and barely trained, poorly equipped and ineptly led regular forces. The task for the West is to enable President Zelensky to finish the job as quickly as possible.
What is of real value is that the numbers may be read by ordinary Russians in Moscow. In the absence of any more reliable data, it's arguably the best picture of how the "special military operation" is going. Losing a fair proportion of your Black Sea fleet to a country without a navy is a powerful message.
There's nothing in the data that strengthens Putin's hand. The view in the West is that he's getting his @rse kicked at the expense of conscripts, criminals and barely trained, poorly equipped and ineptly led regular forces. The task for the West is to enable President Zelensky to finish the job as quickly as possible.
I think Vlad knows how many helicopters he has lost. If the correct figure is 20 more or 20 less, it changes nothing. The key data is the trend.
What is of real value is that the numbers may be read by ordinary Russians in Moscow. In the absence of any more reliable data, it's arguably the best picture of how the "special military operation" is going. Losing a fair proportion of your Black Sea fleet to a country without a navy is a powerful message.
There's nothing in the data that strengthens Putin's hand. The view in the West is that he's getting his @rse kicked at the expense of conscripts, criminals and barely trained, poorly equipped and ineptly led regular forces. The task for the West is to enable President Zelensky to finish the job as quickly as possible.
What is of real value is that the numbers may be read by ordinary Russians in Moscow. In the absence of any more reliable data, it's arguably the best picture of how the "special military operation" is going. Losing a fair proportion of your Black Sea fleet to a country without a navy is a powerful message.
There's nothing in the data that strengthens Putin's hand. The view in the West is that he's getting his @rse kicked at the expense of conscripts, criminals and barely trained, poorly equipped and ineptly led regular forces. The task for the West is to enable President Zelensky to finish the job as quickly as possible.
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I can't see any way that information is helping the enemy : can you expand on that ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrj8kNLU0K0&t=841s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrj8kNLU0K0&t=841s
Losses can also be used for propaganda purposes. Which is exactly what Ukraine is doing.
It's why no country ever produces accurate loss figures in a war and why the Luftwaffe under estimated the RAF's strength during the Battle of Britain leading to Hitler making bad decisions.
Of course it helps the enemy, if estimates of Russian losses are running at 1000 a day and you release your losses on given days, they can see where combat was taking place on those given days and compare losses, if the Russians are lower then they can see the advantage of pressing the attack in those area. It also gives Russia indications of Ukrainian strength, reserves and If they can maintain replacements.
Plus it does your troops moral no good, nor those back home to show how many they are losing, nor for recruitment.
Plus it does your troops moral no good, nor those back home to show how many they are losing, nor for recruitment.
General concensus here, and in general population, is that Ukraininans are winning this because they are not losing anything. Some people know better, but most of the population is fine with dwindling aid since Russia is losing anyway. Why should they give even more money if everything is fine?
Looking at X, one might think that the Ukranians are wreaking havoc on the Russians, and I think that's true to a point, however I've also noticed that many Russian posts showing Ukranian fatalities are quickly removed from X, never to be seen again. Active censorship appears to be taking place on X to give the impression that the Ukranians are doing better.
Telegram is a different matter entirely. Plenty of Ukranian death and destruction to be seen on there.
I think the Ukranians are paying a greater price than many realise for the world's half-hearted support, and the world should know that, and feel the bitterness, anger and shame as they watch the many, many videos out there of Ukranians being killed by Russian drones.
Telegram is a different matter entirely. Plenty of Ukranian death and destruction to be seen on there.
I think the Ukranians are paying a greater price than many realise for the world's half-hearted support, and the world should know that, and feel the bitterness, anger and shame as they watch the many, many videos out there of Ukranians being killed by Russian drones.
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Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Kuwait is considering the possibility of supplying Ukraine with 100 M-84AV tanks through Croatia, which will repair them.
It is also reported that the Croatia has handed over to Ukraine two An-32B transport aircraft, which were bought in 1995, but have not been in use since 2014.
It is also reported that the Croatia has handed over to Ukraine two An-32B transport aircraft, which were bought in 1995, but have not been in use since 2014.
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Of course it helps the enemy, if estimates of Russian losses are running at 1000 a day and you release your losses on given days, they can see where combat was taking place on those given days and compare losses, if the Russians are lower then they can see the advantage of pressing the attack in those area. It also gives Russia indications of Ukrainian strength, reserves and If they can maintain replacements.
Plus it does your troops moral no good, nor those back home to show how many they are losing, nor for recruitment.
Plus it does your troops moral no good, nor those back home to show how many they are losing, nor for recruitment.
Last edited by Tartiflette Fan; 30th Jan 2024 at 11:25.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Ukrainian troops shot down a Russian Su-34 fighter-bomber over Luhansk region yesterday, reports Andriy Kovalev, spokesman for the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine
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Tabs please !
The Misinformation War continues
https://www.newsweek.com/nato-ally-r...omania-1865153
My question is: what is the source of this (mis)information?
I don't see Romania making a move that is so easily traced. Vipers ain't stealthy.
Hmm, the source is based on a discussion in Russia ... color me skeptical.
The use of information and misinformation is an integral part of war. Putting the idea out there that Romania entered into the conflict on their own, regardless of its veracity, gets the noise generating tool (the entire internet and all news outlets) activated and maybe the Russian propaganda / iIformation War team can achieve the old Goebbels aspiration: If you tell the lie often enough, it becomes the truth or Lenin's maxim: "A lie told often enough becomes the truth."
A detailed exposition on this concept is worth a read.
I can't see Romania doing that. They have been walking a fine line in their supporting efforts, and I don't see them making an abrupt change like that.
-------------------
Some added info from the article. Expect Vipers in the spring.
NATO Ally Responds to Rumors of Secret F-16 Combat Mission in Ukraine
Jan 30, 2024 at 5:19 AM ESTMy question is: what is the source of this (mis)information?
NATO ally Romania has dismissed an unverified report that an F-16 fighter aircraft took off from a base in the country to bomb Russian forces in occupied southern Ukraine, as the approaching transfer of dozens of the American-made fighter jets to Kyiv prompts mounting speculation and rumor.
The Ukraine Front Lines X—formerly known as Twitter—account appears to be the source of the latest false claim regarding the F-16s, which are being prepared to be sent to Ukraine by NATO nations to help Kyiv bolster its air force.
The Ukraine Front Lines X—formerly known as Twitter—account appears to be the source of the latest false claim regarding the F-16s, which are being prepared to be sent to Ukraine by NATO nations to help Kyiv bolster its air force.
Ukraine Front Lines reported, without providing any evidence, that Russia's General Staff of the Armed Forces reported to the Security Council of Russia that an F-16C operating out of a Romanian air force base close to the Black Sea port city of Constanța "carried out an air strike" on a Russian troop concentration in the partially-occupied southern Ukrainian Kherson region.
"They were very frightened in Moscow," the account claimed. "While there is no possibility to locate F-16 at bases yet in Ukraine, ready-made bases and ground personnel of allies are used."
"We are alerting you to fake news that appeared on an account from the X platform, which claims that an F-16C aircraft took off from the 86th Air Base in Constanța on Saturday and bombed, at 03:22, a group of forces of the Russian Federation near Kherson," the ministry wrote. Ukrainian Air Force spokesperson Yurii Ihnat also told Newsweek early on Tuesday that the report was false.
There has been no evidence that F-16s are yet operating in Ukrainian skies, nor even that the first batches of the aircraft have arrived on Ukrainian soil.
Speculation, though, has been rife, especially amid the shooting down of several Russian aircraft over frontline areas in recent months. Experts told Newsweek earlier this month that Ukraine's use of a mobile Patriot surface-to-air missile battery is a more likely explanation.
"We are alerting you to fake news that appeared on an account from the X platform, which claims that an F-16C aircraft took off from the 86th Air Base in Constanța on Saturday and bombed, at 03:22, a group of forces of the Russian Federation near Kherson," the ministry wrote. Ukrainian Air Force spokesperson Yurii Ihnat also told Newsweek early on Tuesday that the report was false.
There has been no evidence that F-16s are yet operating in Ukrainian skies, nor even that the first batches of the aircraft have arrived on Ukrainian soil.
Speculation, though, has been rife, especially amid the shooting down of several Russian aircraft over frontline areas in recent months. Experts told Newsweek earlier this month that Ukraine's use of a mobile Patriot surface-to-air missile battery is a more likely explanation.
A detailed exposition on this concept is worth a read.
I can't see Romania doing that. They have been walking a fine line in their supporting efforts, and I don't see them making an abrupt change like that.
-------------------
Some added info from the article. Expect Vipers in the spring.
Spoiler
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 30th Jan 2024 at 15:59.
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https://www.newsweek.com/nato-ally-r...omania-1865153
Jan 30, 2024 at 5:19 AM EST
My question is: what is the source of this (mis)information?
I don't see Romania making so easily traced of a move.
Hmm, the source is based on a discussion in Russia ... color me skeptical.
The use of information and misinformation is an integral part of war. Putting the idea out there that Romani entered into the conflict on their own, regardless of its veracity, gets the noise generating tool (the entire internet) activated and maybe the Russian propaganda / information war team can achieve the old Goebels aspiration:
If you tell the lie often enough, it becomes the truth
I can't see Romania doing anything like that. They have been waalling a fine line in their supporting efforts, and I don't see them making an abrupt change like that.
-------------------
Some added info from the article. Expect Vipers in the spring.
NATO Ally Responds to Rumors of Secret F-16 Combat Mission in Ukraine
Jan 30, 2024 at 5:19 AM EST
My question is: what is the source of this (mis)information?
I don't see Romania making so easily traced of a move.
Hmm, the source is based on a discussion in Russia ... color me skeptical.
The use of information and misinformation is an integral part of war. Putting the idea out there that Romani entered into the conflict on their own, regardless of its veracity, gets the noise generating tool (the entire internet) activated and maybe the Russian propaganda / information war team can achieve the old Goebels aspiration:
If you tell the lie often enough, it becomes the truth
I can't see Romania doing anything like that. They have been waalling a fine line in their supporting efforts, and I don't see them making an abrupt change like that.
-------------------
Some added info from the article. Expect Vipers in the spring.
Spoiler
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One that didn’t detonate, I don’t think I would still be driving with it lodged there.
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My utter utter respect goes out to anyone carrying out this task, I just hope they are able to get on and live a productive happy life after their task is done. It has to be one of the worst jobs man carries out, but if it eventually gives comfort to those that have lost loved ones then it needs doing, no matter how onerous.
Beware collecting of corpses, and searching bodies for identification, some very graphic, some blurred out but all terribly sad, the guy talking about their job speaks a whole heap of sense.. it’s tragic that some carry no identification at all on them when they died.
Beware collecting of corpses, and searching bodies for identification, some very graphic, some blurred out but all terribly sad, the guy talking about their job speaks a whole heap of sense.. it’s tragic that some carry no identification at all on them when they died.
Last edited by NutLoose; 30th Jan 2024 at 16:22.
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