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"Russian jet collides with US drone over Black Sea"

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"Russian jet collides with US drone over Black Sea"

Old 17th Mar 2023, 21:47
  #261 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by melmothtw
Seen any reports, not received any reports. Have you seen any? Can't hide such movements these days.
​Perhaps no such operations are taking place. Perhaps there are and those who know about them are rightly keeping their mouths shut. Whatever UK military personnel are doing I wish them every success, but I don't need to know about it and neither do you.

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Old 17th Mar 2023, 23:18
  #262 (permalink)  
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Seen any reports, not received any reports. Have you seen any? Can't hide such movements these days.
I did a paper several years ago about the number of airfields in Africa where the USA was flying either manned or unmanned ISR flights and attack flights against ISIS and other associated forces in Africa. The number of countries was over 10 and the sites over 30. Barely any were public knowledge or of interest.

The same hold strut for those operating from the “stans” and elsewhere against Iran, Syria, Iraq etc.

Many years ago, watching on primary radar from 280SU in Cyprus Inwatched dozens of non-squawking daily flights through the Nicosia IFR of which they were oblivious. The day day they switched on their first primary radar they just abou had a heart attack and we spent many days on the phone explaining who controlled what.

The idea that those watching internet flight watch apps showing only those squeaking mode 3, 5 and ADSB have any idea of the numerous, probably dozens, of other aircraft, know what is going on is risible.
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Old 18th Mar 2023, 06:38
  #263 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Video Mixdown
​Perhaps no such operations are taking place. Perhaps there are and those who know about them are rightly keeping their mouths shut. Whatever UK military personnel are doing I wish them every success, but I don't need to know about it and neither do you.

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Firstly, spotters tend not to 'keep their mouths shut'. They tend to take lots of photos which they then post online. Foreign spotters in particular have no qualms about UK opsec, why should they?

Secondly, UK Reaper ops are not secret - it's the RAF not the CIA. The MoD even invited Sky News and the BBC to Kuwait to film them during Shader, and were quite open about their role at that time.

But that said, I can't prove a negative about them not being used in or around Ukraine, so maybe those asserting they are there provide a shred of evidence and I'll shut up.

The idea that those watching internet flight watch apps showing only those squeaking mode 3, 5 and ADSB have any idea of the numerous, probably dozens, of other aircraft, know what is going on is risible
.

The idea that the locals who live near where UK Reapers are supposedly flying in and out of as they operate near Ukraine haven't once taken a photo and posted it online is risible.

Again though, UK Reaper ops are NOT secret. Heck, not even the USAF ops are secret - they're quite open as to where they're based in Europe.
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Old 18th Mar 2023, 06:46
  #264 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by magyarflyer
indeed, this morning there is no unmanned drone in the black sea .......


....that you can see on FR24...
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Old 18th Mar 2023, 07:20
  #265 (permalink)  
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Not all US drones are owned by the USAF.

I wonder where the RQ-170s and RQ-180s are today…..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockhe...Q-170_Sentinel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman_RQ-180
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Old 18th Mar 2023, 09:07
  #266 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Nick H.
Both pilots have been given medals. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ne-2023-03-17/ The official story is that they intercepted it without hitting it. It crashed because the operator lost control.
Ahhh, it was the self- denting mechanism (an electrically driven hammer that extends and hammers at parts of the aircraft) which the operator activated that bent and cut the prop blade visible in the video...

You really have to admire the Russian Chuzpe...
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Old 18th Mar 2023, 10:10
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Originally Posted by melmothtw
Firstly, spotters tend not to 'keep their mouths shut'. They tend to take lots of photos which they then post online. Foreign spotters in particular have no qualms about UK opsec, why should they?

Secondly, UK Reaper ops are not secret - it's the RAF not the CIA. The MoD even invited Sky News and the BBC to Kuwait to film them during Shader, and were quite open about their role at that time.
But that said, I can't prove a negative about them not being used in or around Ukraine, so maybe those asserting they are there provide a shred of evidence and I'll shut up.
The idea that the locals who live near where UK Reapers are supposedly flying in and out of as they operate near Ukraine haven't once taken a photo and posted it online is risible.
Again though, UK Reaper ops are NOT secret. Heck, not even the USAF ops are secret - they're quite open as to where they're based in Europe.
First you surely understand that there is a difference between publicity about a capability (in order to justify expense from the taxpayers funds and garner support for the national forces) and actual operational usage of the system?

Secondly, as other posters have said, there are a plethora of remote airfields within range. How many spotters have been submitting reports from Akrotiri or Chania? At night?

Thirdly, if you think anyone is claiming the presence of RAF (MoD? GCHQ?) British-owned/operated Reapers around the Ukraine Theatre then you need to re-read the thread. All anyone is saying is that they could be operating, and will only announce their presence to you (by ADS-b, press release or demonstration to spotters in daylight) if it suits a strategic objective.

Or possibly not. You decide.
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Old 18th Mar 2023, 10:26
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Originally Posted by DuncanDoenitz
First you surely understand that there is a difference between publicity about a capability (in order to justify expense from the taxpayers funds and garner support for the national forces) and actual operational usage of the system?

Secondly, as other posters have said, there are a plethora of remote airfields within range. How many spotters have been submitting reports from Akrotiri or Chania? At night?

Thirdly, if you think anyone is claiming the presence of RAF (MoD? GCHQ?) British-owned/operated Reapers around the Ukraine Theatre then you need to re-read the thread. All anyone is saying is that they could be operating, and will only announce their presence to you (by ADS-b, press release or demonstration to spotters in daylight) if it suits a strategic objective.

Or possibly not. You decide.
What would the rules of engagement be if the Russians tried to force one of our Reapers down without actually shooting at it? The thread drift to UK Reapers began with this reference to "our" Reapers being shot down by the Russians, so I don't need to reread the thread as someone clearly was claiming UK Reapers are operating around Ukraine.

As to the rest, I'll shut up at the slightest scintila of evidence that this is the case.

Last edited by melmothtw; 18th Mar 2023 at 11:20.
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Old 18th Mar 2023, 11:17
  #269 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by henra
Ahhh, it was the self- denting mechanism (an electrically driven hammer that extends and hammers at parts of the aircraft) which the operator activated that bent and cut the prop blade visible in the video...

You really have to admire the Russian Chuzpe...
The poor old SU-27 will need a purple heart too, there is no way that the Rah stabilator didn't impact the RH ruddervator of the MQ, and the prop. The former would have been a clean slice, the prop would have done a few salami slices. The prop strike is self evident in the video, quite impressive, normally it would have departed the fix.

Swapping an SU-27 for an MQ is probably a good deal for Russia, given the performance of their crew and planes in the theatre. Still, if you want to kill children in a building that is marked as having children in shelter, then Russia is your go to experts..
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Old 18th Mar 2023, 11:45
  #270 (permalink)  
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What would be the repercussions if the reaper defended itself and downed the Su27?
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Old 18th Mar 2023, 11:52
  #271 (permalink)  
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Talking

Originally Posted by uxb99
What would be the repercussions if the reaper defended itself and downed the Su27?
It would paint an SU-27 silhouette on the side of the fuselage under the canopy... like one SU-27 that is probably off to the scrap heap will add an MQ-9 to the newly dinged stabilator.

By "it", that'll be the ground crew that care, feed, and water the poor thing. The SU-27 only can look forward to being the recipient of vodka breath.
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Old 18th Mar 2023, 12:11
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Would not be surprised if next time the MQ-9 are equipped with AIM-9X or similar.
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Old 18th Mar 2023, 12:12
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It's been quite a while since the USAF UAV community engaged in air-to-air fighting against Russian-built fast jets. In the 2002 example the AIM-92 fired from the Predator crossed the inbound path of the AA-6 fired from the MiG-25. The one who shot first (and with a considerably longer range) won the day, with the MiG-25 achieving the kill.

Time moves on and Reaper has replaced Predator and the AIM-9X replaced the gutless AIM-92 as the principle defensive missile. Belligerents being stupid does not, on its own, equal more forceful tactics or even lead to weapons carriage. If the RF was tempted to make a more deliberate effort to destroy another nation's military equipment, manned or not, the US would have the right to protect its assets. It was ever thus - nothing has changed.
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Old 18th Mar 2023, 12:17
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Originally Posted by melmothtw
What would the rules of engagement be if the Russians tried to force one of our Reapers down without actually shooting at it?The thread drift to UK Reapers began with this reference to "our" Reapers being shot down by the Russians, so I don't need to reread the thread as someone clearly was claiming UK Reapers are operating around Ukraine.
I took that as a hypothetical question.
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Old 18th Mar 2023, 12:24
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It is a hypothetical question until there is any evidence of UK Reapers operating around Ukraine, which I think was kind of my point.
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Old 18th Mar 2023, 12:31
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Originally Posted by melmothtw
It is a hypothetical question until there is any evidence of UK Reapers operating around Ukraine, which I think was kind of my point.
Then why did you state this?

"I'm not aware of any of our Reapers flying near Ukraine."
It was a hypothetical question, go with it. Or not.
Sometimes I do wonder if some people just want to start an argument for no reason.
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Old 18th Mar 2023, 13:33
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Originally Posted by HOVIS
Then why did you state this?

"I'm not aware of any of our Reapers flying near Ukraine."
It was a hypothetical question, go with it. Or not.
Sometimes I do wonder if some people just want to start an argument for no reason.
Because a question was asked and I answered it. Go with my answer or don't. Agreed on the bit about starting an argument for no reason, though.
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Old 18th Mar 2023, 16:23
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Caution Wake Turbulence
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Old 20th Mar 2023, 11:24
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I'd be surprised if the Reaper in this case was armed, but they do have A2A capability


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Old 20th Mar 2023, 12:57
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Well I guess that answers that question https://www.janes.com/defence-news/d...n-of-us-reaper

No UK Reapers in or around Ukraine.
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