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"Russian jet collides with US drone over Black Sea"

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"Russian jet collides with US drone over Black Sea"

Old 16th Mar 2023, 11:34
  #181 (permalink)  
 
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It's a useful reminder that every single Russian statement should be assumed to be a lie by default. What a messed up culture!
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 11:35
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Originally Posted by culzean12
I can’t imagine that the Flanker pilot would have been intending to collide. But to fly on a collision course with a high rate closure and rely on a last second break away while belly-up to the target…. that’s gross ineptitude. They wouldn’t last a minute in a shooting match. I hope Putin realises that.
Since this was also (presumably) at high altitude - hard to tell from the video - the Flankers would be struggling to maneouvre precisely I suppose. It looked as if both Flankers came in 'mushing' somewhat, and as you say an extraordinary thing to do belly up to the target, making it even harder to judge distance and separation, ignoring any tactical implications which are outwith my competence! Certainly not a controlled 'intercept', but then I don't suppose ultra close passes at high altitude often feature in their training?.

Not clever thinking and both inept and bloody dangerous for the Flanker drivers. I'd not like to risk hitting something the size of that drone. Sheer luck the Flanker wasn't also brought down.
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 11:38
  #183 (permalink)  
 
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How did the fighter strike the prop disc without taking out the tailplane which is considerably higher?
Why all the fuss?
The western world wasn't as outraged when American military shot down an Airbus killing 290 people, hypocrisy?
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 11:39
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I would actually say that it was bad luck the Flanker wasn’t brought down.
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 11:45
  #185 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cedrik
How did the fighter strike the prop disc without taking out the tailplane which is considerably higher?
Why all the fuss?
The western world wasn't as outraged when American military shot down an Airbus killing 290 people, hypocrisy?
A total non sequitur.
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 11:45
  #186 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cedrik
How did the fighter strike the prop disc without taking out the tailplane which is considerably higher?
Why all the fuss?
The western world wasn't as outraged when American military shot down an Airbus killing 290 people, hypocrisy?
Did the internet and social media exist in 1988?

As for the first part, I'm sure if you are particularly talented you could fit either the end of the tail cone, or an underside stabiliser through that little gap. Are you related to one of the pilots?


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Old 16th Mar 2023, 11:49
  #187 (permalink)  
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Having reviewed the footage I think it was `cock up` by the Russian pilots behaviour that brought down the drone.
I believe he was trying to bring it down but his closure rate was way too fast. Hew tried to go belly up and over the drone while covering it in fuel and actually hit it. btw are we certain that's fuel and not just the Russian adding power?
As others have said shame the Russian wasn't brought down. I suspect it just touched.
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 11:57
  #188 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Cedrik
How did the fighter strike the prop disc without taking out the tailplane which is considerably higher?
Why all the fuss?
The western world wasn't as outraged when American military shot down an Airbus killing 290 people, hypocrisy?
I don't think there is a lot of fuss over this. No one I know is talking about it. We are because we are aviation geeks.

Trying not to get political, start a flame war or drag this thread too far off topic I do agree that we have in the past been very nationality centric.
Like that old "Not The Nine O'clock News" joke. An airliner crashed today and the fatalities in order of importance were two Brits, three Americans and a Belgium but his accent wasn't very good.
We have in the past thought of foreigners as not as important as us. I think that attitude is changing but it is still there.
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 12:00
  #189 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by m0nkfish
It might have been in international air space but it was also right in their back yard so hardly surprising. Wester leaders are constantly banging their drums now and declaring that China and Russia want to end the 'rule based order' so why be so surprised when they show scant regard for an autonomous vehicle that was almost certainly aiding their enemy and operating only a short distance outside the 12nm boundary of their airspace, or maybe even inside it?

If American tax payers are really worried about the lose of a vehicle that is 0.0009% of their annual defence budget then maybe they should not be operating military equipment a fraction outside of the 12nm territorial border and 6000+ miles away from America.

End of the day it was a drone, and if Biden is calling it out as 'Environmentally unsound' then I would suggest they don't really give a toss, so neither should we.

So the next time Russia comes anywhere near UK airspace can we just them shoot down.
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 12:10
  #190 (permalink)  
 
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Just piss poor airmanship.
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 12:29
  #191 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by uxb99
Having reviewed the footage I think it was `cock up` by the Russian pilots behaviour that brought down the drone.
I believe he was trying to bring it down but his closure rate was way too fast. Hew tried to go belly up and over the drone while covering it in fuel and actually hit it. btw are we certain that's fuel and not just the Russian adding power?
As others have said shame the Russian wasn't brought down. I suspect it just touched.
I was wondering that; what if the Su27 pilot went to 'burner but for some reason the 'burner either failed to ignite or there was a delay before it ignited pumping excess fuel out of the exhaust.
I've seen it happen when watching a jet dragster so it can happen.
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 12:32
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When you see the first pass, in the distance you can see his wingman turning in, I do wonder if he was the one that hit it and had problems with the first aircrafts fuel dump, so used a slightly different lower and closer approach?
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 12:43
  #193 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by a_ross84
So the next time Russia comes anywhere near UK airspace can we just them shoot down.
If for instance we were in a shooting war with Ireland, and Russia was supplying intel to Ireland from drones off the Yorkshire coast then yes, I would say we would shoot them down. After taking into account the repercussions of doing so. There isn’t much that can be done diplomatically, or financially that isn’t being done already so not really any deterrent to
stop Russia doing it.
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 12:46
  #194 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chevvron
I was wondering that; what if the Su27 pilot went to 'burner but for some reason the 'burner either failed to ignite or there was a delay before it ignited pumping excess fuel out of the exhaust.
I've seen it happen when watching a jet dragster so it can happen.
Twice in two separate passes? What a coincidence.
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 12:50
  #195 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cedrik
How did the fighter strike the prop disc without taking out the tailplane which is considerably higher?
Why all the fuss?
The western world wasn't as outraged when American military shot down an Airbus killing 290 people, hypocrisy?
I don’t think there is much “fuss”. I’m not even sure the UK has acknowledged it happened?

The US has given few press briefings and that’s it.

The media are making more of it than anyone else.

I would guess that more than one US official said something along the lines of “well that took longer than we expected” when first hearing the news.
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 13:01
  #196 (permalink)  
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Why all the fuss?
The western world wasn't as outraged when American military shot down an Airbus killing 290 people, hypocrisy?
Nobody got overexcited when Iran shot down a RQ-4 in 2019.

No one is overexcited about the USAF losing another MQ-9 than when they lost their previous 4.

What has got people worried is the fear of the USA/NATO getting directly involved in a shooting war with Russia - whether it’s their shooting down a NATO drone or being arrested conducting recce/sabotage on Polish territory*

* https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64971691
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 13:03
  #197 (permalink)  
 
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Nobody shot the drone down, they failed to miss it.
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 13:17
  #198 (permalink)  
 
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Not the first time a Flanker pilot has botched a close pass..
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/the-...e-barents-sea/
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 13:25
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Originally Posted by UAV689
No way does an SU27 have a fuel dumping capability. What fighter does?

They have drop tanks they can drop, which make up a combination of 4.5t hardpoints that can be dropped if required.

The fuel dump is a diplomatic face saving exercise. Most Joe Punters think every aircraft can dump fuel.
Yes, Flankers have a fuel dumping capability. Regularly used as a party trick at airshows and flypasts.



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Old 16th Mar 2023, 13:40
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The video has been released
The newly declassified video has been edited for length, running 43 seconds. As expected, the footage is from the MTS-B sensor ball below the nose of the MQ-9, which was looking behind the drone as the Su-27 approached it. Approaching from the right-hand rear quarter, the Russian fighter begins dumping fuel, which U.S. officials had already said was one of the more aggressive maneuvers performed by the jet.

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