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"Russian jet collides with US drone over Black Sea"

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"Russian jet collides with US drone over Black Sea"

Old 16th Mar 2023, 13:42
  #201 (permalink)  
 
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I was wondering that; what if the Su27 pilot went to 'burner but for some reason the 'burner either failed to ignite or there was a delay before it ignited pumping excess fuel out of the exhaust.
I've seen it happen when watching a jet dragster so it can happen.
Except that jet dragsters don't actually have afterburners. I believe it is illegal in the U.S. for a private citizen to own one and they are removed by the military when equipment is sold. All the jet cars do is dump a bunch of extra fuel into the exhaust stream for visual effect.
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 14:11
  #202 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ivor Fynn
Nice video now available on Sky News, difficult for RU to deny what happened.
And this video pretty much confirms the assumption of a co*k- up leading to the final demise of the drone. The dousing was clearly deliberate, the collision looked quite like a misjudgement. Looking at the way they collided (pretty much belly first) I would expect major damage if not a write-off of the Su as well.

As a kind of retaliation maybe just give another Batch of GLSDB to Ukraine. Everytime they do stuff like this, double the amount of Kit given to Ukraine. And let the Russians know that this will happen. That way they can themselves decide how much damage they want to incur for some fun and PR.
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 14:21
  #203 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Winemaker
Except that jet dragsters don't actually have afterburners. I believe it is illegal in the U.S. for a private citizen to own one and they are removed by the military when equipment is sold. All the jet cars do is dump a bunch of extra fuel into the exhaust stream for visual effect.
They're legal in the UK.
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 14:43
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
Getting fuel emerging from the afterburner nozzles to remain unburnt would be quite some trick.
Actually, the afterburner trick is getting the damn thing to light on demand, match in a hurricane, so to speak. However, the dumping is usually separate as has been discussed and fairly standard on jets in order to reduce weight if necessary to land back soon after takeoff.
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 15:14
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What is exact location of this incident? Sorry if this has been answered already. Can't find it.
Thx
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 15:15
  #206 (permalink)  
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​​​​​​​"Turkey is ready to let US warships pass through the Bosphorus, because of the "incident" with the MQ-9 and Su-27" - Turkish Defense Minister
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 15:24
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Originally Posted by ORAC
"Turkey is ready to let US warships pass through the Bosphorus, because of the "incident" with the MQ-9 and Su-27" - Turkish Defense Minister
I doubt the US would send much a presence there anyways. Too much risk of escapism for not much gain.
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 15:25
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The aviation version of a Crazy Ivan. Obviously 30 minutes past the hour as he turned starboard.
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 15:31
  #209 (permalink)  
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I doubt the US would send much a presence there anyways. Too much risk of escapism for not much gain.
An Aegis cruiser would be an easier way to provide AD cover for the various drone & ISR orbits in the area than providing 24/7 tanker and fighter cover - and less of an obvious provocation.

As a reminder, the RAF started providing fighter cover for their Rivet Joint flights in the area after a Russian fighter launched an AAM in their direction last October.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/brit...ussian-forces/
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 15:36
  #210 (permalink)  
 
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Russian jet collides with US drone over Black Sea

It's a useful reminder that every single Russian statement should be assumed to be a lie by default. What a messed up culture!

In Russian culture a distinction is drawn between two kinds of lies, vranyo and lozh which do not have exact parallels in English. Vranyo has been claimed as uniquely Russian, and seems to consist of telling untrue but credible stories, a practice not condemned by those who recognize what is going on. Indeed, for success in vranyo-telling, there must be a listener who pretends to believe in the truth of what is being said. [...] Lozh, on the other hand, implies a conscious intention to deceive.

"A Russian friend explained vranyo this way: ‘You know I’m lying, and I know that you know, and you know that I know that you know, but I go ahead with a straight face, and you nod seriously and take notes."

I am unsure of the corresponding (American) English or (British) English equivalent of vranyo or lozh …… or, am I vranyo-telling.
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 15:55
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Originally Posted by Cedrik
How did the fighter strike the prop disc without taking out the tailplane which is considerably higher?
Why all the fuss?
The western world wasn't as outraged when American military shot down an Airbus killing 290 people, hypocrisy?
I well remember that event.
As I recall the “Western World” was very outraged by the event. Including most people in the USA.
Care to comment on KL007 ?
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 15:55
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I wonder if the fuel dumping was to provide a visual marker for the target location.
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 16:59
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Originally Posted by melmothtw
A total non sequitur.
Whataboutism is the preferred weapon of disgruntled despot apologists.
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 17:11
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Originally Posted by lefty loose
It's a useful reminder that every single Russian statement should be assumed to be a lie by default. What a messed up culture!

In Russian culture a distinction is drawn between two kinds of lies, vranyo and lozh which do not have exact parallels in English. Vranyo has been claimed as uniquely Russian, and seems to consist of telling untrue but credible stories, a practice not condemned by those who recognize what is going on. Indeed, for success in vranyo-telling, there must be a listener who pretends to believe in the truth of what is being said. [...] Lozh, on the other hand, implies a conscious intention to deceive.

"A Russian friend explained vranyo this way: ‘You know I’m lying, and I know that you know, and you know that I know that you know, but I go ahead with a straight face, and you nod seriously and take notes."

I am unsure of the corresponding (American) English or (British) English equivalent of vranyo or lozh …… or, am I vranyo-telling.
We (USA) may not have the terminology, but politically we have the reality.
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 17:14
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Originally Posted by beardy
I wonder if the fuel dumping was to provide a visual marker for the target location.
Fuel will snuff out a turbine engine or even cause it to explode. Ask any old A4 drivers what happens when a burst of fuel goes down the intake. I have no idea what you mean by visual marker as the fuel will dissipate in a few seconds and the drone is moving.
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 17:25
  #216 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by lefty loose
It's a useful reminder that every single Russian statement should be assumed to be a lie by default. What a messed up culture!

In Russian culture a distinction is drawn between two kinds of lies,...I am unsure of the corresponding (American) English or (British) English equivalent of vranyo or lozh …… or, am I vranyo-telling.
The western equivalent of someone who deliberately lies for personal gain or out of some sociopathic disorder is "politician".
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 17:38
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Originally Posted by beardy
I wonder if the fuel dumping was to provide a visual marker for the target location.
They did try to shower the drone in a way that it gets ingested into the engine. The first one was close miss.
The fuel dump was quite clearly an attempt to down the drone in an only semi- violent way. So that there would be no trace of explosives / shrapnel. I wonder if they forgot that these drones have cameras.
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 17:55
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Originally Posted by GlobalNav
We (USA) may not have the terminology, but politically we have the reality.
Sounds a lot like Alternative Facts.
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 18:10
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Originally Posted by Stuff
Sounds a lot like Alternative Facts.
Yes, we even have a “news” network devoted to it, which unfortunately, too many fully aware listeners are completely devoted to.
Welcome to democracy.
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 18:15
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Originally Posted by henra
They did try to shower the drone in a way that it gets ingested into the engine. The first one was close miss.
The fuel dump was quite clearly an attempt to down the drone in an only semi- violent way. So that there would be no trace of explosives / shrapnel. I wonder if they forgot that these drones have cameras.
Remember the Russians have this concept of utterly implausible denial; downing it without a weapon enables them to claim it was an accident even though no-one except the most credulous State TV devotee actually believes it.

I do wonder whether, if the operators still had control authority, they tried to glide it within range of land-based anti-shipping missiles
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