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"Russian jet collides with US drone over Black Sea"

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"Russian jet collides with US drone over Black Sea"

Old 15th Mar 2023, 13:55
  #121 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by guided
if you pause the video just after the 0:00:02 marker you can see the wingtip and an extended slat. Does it look like a Su-27?


wing, wingtip and slat
Yes.
http://data4.primeportal.net/hangar/...001_of_139.jpg
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Old 15th Mar 2023, 14:41
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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How is SU-27 Guy supposed to be filming this? Helmet-cam? Rear-seat occupant of a 2-seater?

Just wondering about the practicalities of fly-the-airplane and pan-the-camera on a very close flyby. The recent U-2/balloon air-to-air selfie was with the target to the right, so stick in the right hand, camera in the left, and a good deal of separation between interceptor/target.
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Old 15th Mar 2023, 14:49
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ChrisJ800
Cant a Reaper operator slow right down? I would think its stall speed is much less than a SU27 and would make russian close intercepts much more hazardous.
Not at 50,000ft; its stalling speed would be very high. I understand you only have about 30kts between stall speed and mach buffet at that sort of level.
Gary Power's U2 was brought down because with the U2 in those days he only had about 10 knots to play with, probably less.

Last edited by chevvron; 15th Mar 2023 at 15:05.
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Old 15th Mar 2023, 14:52
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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Leaving aside the dubious provenance of that clip, the wingtip looks nothing like an Su-27's.
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Old 15th Mar 2023, 14:52
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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The UAV in the video has winglets; does a Reaper have them?
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Old 15th Mar 2023, 14:56
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by uxb99
Do we know if the drone has any inbuilt evasive, defence measures? Surprised the drone didn't just evade the jets. It must be considerably slower and more nimble.

As an aside I remember hearing a commentator remark about the F111 dump and burn "can't think of any valid combat reason for that manouver". Now we know.
Yeah so someone with guns gets on your tail and the F111 lights a burst of fuel in his face; does that count?
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Old 15th Mar 2023, 15:03
  #127 (permalink)  
 
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According German Media Russia is about to recover the wreckage.
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Old 15th Mar 2023, 15:04
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by uxb99
I wonder how far you would go if the aircraft was manned. Destroying a drone is not as politically sensitive as killing a crew.
If it was a manned asset I donít think this would have happened. Same for my scenario of the situations were reversed. I donít think the US would have taken down a manned asset in international airspace. Much easier to get away with taking out a drone. Especially when you are already under as much sanctions as the other side is willing to do.

There should have been much more severe sanctions imposed in Russia months ago, but since they havenít I can only presume they have gone as far as they will go. This will change nothing.
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Old 15th Mar 2023, 15:07
  #129 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by chevvron
Yeah so someone with guns gets on your tail and the F111 lights a burst of fuel in his face; does that count?
but killing a drone is a valid combat tactic as demonstrated by Russia.
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Old 15th Mar 2023, 15:31
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Originally Posted by uxb99
but killing a drone is a valid combat tactic as demonstrated by Russia.
What? By what stretch of warped imagination do you work that out? Downed? The US says that it was downed by them following a collision, the Russians say that it came down after maneuvering near the sea. It was in international airspace, there was no combat, and all that Russia seems to have demonstrated is yet another example of their ineffective and incompetent armed forces.

There were drones up there before, there are drones up there now, there will be drones up there tomorrow.
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Old 15th Mar 2023, 15:42
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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Lots of talk about an 'act of war'. This was not an act of war, and I shall tell you why - because the 'victim' decided it was not. It does not matter what Russia does to the USA, it will only be an act of war if the US says it is, and indeed vice-versa.

This is important. The US is absolutely terrified of confrontation with Russia, and not because the US would lose, but because they would most likely very quickly start to win. The fear is what Putin would then do, with the obvious spectre of use of nuclear weapons. To that end, the US will, quite understandably, do everything they can to avoid such a scenario. However, the logical path of this argument tells us that even if the offence by Russia is more egregious, such as firing weapons on a manned US aircraft, and killing the crew, then the US will do everything it can to avoid it being seen as an 'act of war' which it could not allow to go unanswered by a military response.

My personal view is that in such a circumstance, the US would call it an 'accident', 'the actions of a rogue pilot', 'a weapons malfunction'... etc - they would deny that an overt act of war was indeed such, so terrified are they of the potential armageddon that could follow, and maybe they would have a valid point. I believe that Russia can do a lot worse that bringing down a drone, and that the US will find any excuse to not retaliate. Just my personal view.
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Old 15th Mar 2023, 15:43
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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As I believe they have a self destruct on board, perhaps next time fire it as the Russian aircraft does its slow close pass. then blame it on the Russian.
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Old 15th Mar 2023, 16:00
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
Leaving aside the dubious provenance of that clip, the wingtip looks nothing like an Su-27's.
Would you like to demonstrate how they should look?
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Old 15th Mar 2023, 16:10
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ohrly
Would you like to demonstrate how they should look?
No shortage of Su-27 photos on the net - if you can find one with a wing that resembles that in the video, feel free to post it.
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Old 15th Mar 2023, 16:18
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 57mm
The UAV in the video has winglets; does a Reaper have them?
They do nowadays (I believe retrofittable):


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Old 15th Mar 2023, 17:19
  #136 (permalink)  
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My, my, what short memories we all have. The Russians took down Korean 007 with the loss of 269 lives, and still only got a strongly worded memo from the State Department. Quite the hysteria being being generated by the media here. Try not to help them.
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Old 15th Mar 2023, 18:15
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by uxb99
but killing a drone is a valid combat tactic as demonstrated by Russia.
indeed, this morning there is no unmanned drone in the black sea .......
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Old 15th Mar 2023, 18:19
  #138 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
No shortage of Su-27 photos on the net - if you can find one with a wing that resembles that in the video, feel free to post it.


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Old 15th Mar 2023, 18:24
  #139 (permalink)  
 
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Heidhurtin # 109

Fuel dumping in front of the Reaper could easily cause a flameout. It has happened (inadvertently) during AAR when the
AAR equipment has malfunctioned. We did it to a Vulcan at night over the Bay of Biscay returning from ASI in May 1982.
The Probe Nozzle/ Drogue failed to operate correctly while disconnecting and dumping fuel down the intakes.
Does the Reaper have relight capability?.
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Old 15th Mar 2023, 18:33
  #140 (permalink)  
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These Russian jets were obviously harassing the drone. I suspect deliberately trying to bring it down (they succeeded).
What would be the ramifications of downing the drone with gunfire? Result is still the same.
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