Married quarters
Army exodus
SIR – Sir Iain Duncan Smith (Comment, February 16) warns of a forthcoming exodus of military officers.As the wife of a serving Army officer, I must report that as a result of the Ministry of Defence’s decision to strip us of our guaranteed access to officer-standard accommodation, this is well under way. I know officers who have already given notice and we have evidence that significant numbers are now actively planning their exit over the next couple of years.
The reality for my husband and me is this. Because we have not yet produced children, we are set to have our living space slashed by 38 per cent.The long absences – and risks – inherent for service personnel strain family life. The frequent moves – especially for officers – often ruin a spouse’s career, further limiting household income. Now they are coming for our accommodation too.
Members of the Armed Forces are prevented by the chain of command from voicing their objections publicly. The only means left to make their dissatisfaction known is to vote with their feet and leave.
Rosie Bucknall
Warminster, Wiltshire
What I would say (again) is that while there is seemingly a focus on Officers' accommodation in the media (including the letter above) I believe I am correct that the policy is instituting a broadly similar accomodation standard regardless of rank based on family circumstances.
While I'd happily argue that this should involve raising all standards to those that the officer corps currently enjoy, that clearly is out of financial reach of the MOD. To complain that one's living standards are being downgraded to allow one's troops a better quality of life is an understandable reaction but not really befitting of the mantra 'Weapon, Men, Self'.
While I'd happily argue that this should involve raising all standards to those that the officer corps currently enjoy, that clearly is out of financial reach of the MOD. To complain that one's living standards are being downgraded to allow one's troops a better quality of life is an understandable reaction but not really befitting of the mantra 'Weapon, Men, Self'.
What I would say (again) is that while there is seemingly a focus on Officers' accommodation in the media (including the letter above) I believe I am correct that the policy is instituting a broadly similar accomodation standard regardless of rank based on family circumstances.
While I'd happily argue that this should involve raising all standards to those that the officer corps currently enjoy, that clearly is out of financial reach of the MOD. To complain that one's living standards are being downgraded to allow one's troops a better quality of life is an understandable reaction but not really befitting of the mantra 'Weapon, Men, Self'.
While I'd happily argue that this should involve raising all standards to those that the officer corps currently enjoy, that clearly is out of financial reach of the MOD. To complain that one's living standards are being downgraded to allow one's troops a better quality of life is an understandable reaction but not really befitting of the mantra 'Weapon, Men, Self'.
I've always found military accommodation to be a broad spectrum of size and quality, having lived in everything from a 4 man room in a 1930s former German Army barracks to a 4 bedroom bungalow as a singlie in the Far East. With the demise of "Mess life" I decided to take myself out of the equation, committed to choosing a large base where I'm unlikely to be posted away from and used FHTB to buy somewhere close enough to commute by bicycle. If the FHTB was withdrawn then there would be a similar exodus/brain drain from the younger/junior ranks as the senior officer cohort may/are experiencing.
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I am absolutely not advocating a race to the bottom, but in the absence of the will to fund housing properly at a senior level I'd say the policy is better than the previous one on the surface. However, the short-term impact is those that are negatively impacted will have another push factor. Long term the push and pull may even out across the ranks, then it just depends who you want to keep more....
I'd argue that's what the pay scale is for. Giving a <insert middle management officer> with no kids a bigger house than someone with 3 kids who happens to be junior isn't really cricket in my book (especially noting that junior person may have had an equal number of merit-based promotions but started as a junior rank.
I know what you mean. I suppose another point I hadn't thought about is the new accommodation model may mean those on the higher wages could be able to afford a pretty decent (subsidised) digs on the civvy market. You wouldn't even have to live near anyone from work so sounds better than the patch already!
Using the Private Rental Sector: Widening entitlement for family accommodation means we will reduce the number of empty Service Family Accommodation properties the MOD holds, but demand for family accommodation is likely to exceed the available Service Family Accommodation at some locations. In the long term decisions will be made about whether to build more Service Family Accommodation but, for now, where Service Family Accommodation is near capacity, you may be given the choice, or even asked, to use the local private rental sector. If you are placed into this route, you will be given guidance and various payments to cover the costs associated with renting and a contribution towards your monthly rent, adjusted for local housing costs. For Service personnel who are unable to source their own accommodation, a private rental property may be provided for them.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Gotta love Pinnacle.
The house concrete roof and bedroom window surround collapsing into your bedroom isn't an emergency apparently.
Has anyone had structural issues and managed to get even a half-decent response from the most disgusting company ever known? Who did you speak to?
I've tried fighting this problem for the past 3 years and they've done nothing about it. They've left it so long that it has now collapsed inside as well.
It's still collapsing further. The frame is now being pushed out.
They've told me they won't get anyone out today, and they can't escalate to the complaints team until tomorrow as they only work Monday to Friday.
I said, so what do I do until then.....this is my bedroom and I have no idea on the structural safety.
Their answer......"sorry Sir, there is nothing more we can do".
The house concrete roof and bedroom window surround collapsing into your bedroom isn't an emergency apparently.
Has anyone had structural issues and managed to get even a half-decent response from the most disgusting company ever known? Who did you speak to?
I've tried fighting this problem for the past 3 years and they've done nothing about it. They've left it so long that it has now collapsed inside as well.
It's still collapsing further. The frame is now being pushed out.
They've told me they won't get anyone out today, and they can't escalate to the complaints team until tomorrow as they only work Monday to Friday.
I said, so what do I do until then.....this is my bedroom and I have no idea on the structural safety.
Their answer......"sorry Sir, there is nothing more we can do".
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Double glazing though! During my time at ODI (mid to late 1980s) OMQs still had metal framed single glazing which dated back to the 1950s. It was a constant cause of complaint. It was then announced that all MQs would be fitted with UPVC double glazing. The airmen’s quarters were given first priority. Next came the senior officers. Junior officers were next, as last priority. A scaffolding company encased our MQ with steel, so that none of the existing windows could be opened more than an inch or two. Nothing further then happened. A few weeks later it was announced that the funding had run out. The scaffolding remained for many weeks, despite me requesting a number of times that it should be removed asap on fire safety and health grounds.
The same house suffered a cold water main riser pipe burst on Boxing Day while we were out for the day. It was the central heating supply pipe in the loft. As we got out of the car we could hear rushing water. As I opened the front door the bathroom ceiling collapsed and water began flowing down the stairs. I resisted the urge to switch on the hall lights because water was squirting out of the wall switch. Part of the kitchen ceiling came down later. We got no help at all from the RAF to clean up. All of the loft space was flooded and we removed thirty six bin bags of sodden fibreglass insulation. Supply Sqn came round a couple of days later and removed all the fitted carpets with a view to drying them out but they were rotten through old age. We lived for two months with no carpets and spiked gripper rods exposed on the stairs. We eventually had to put newspaper over the spikes but I still sliced open the heel of my foot on one of them. With two young kids it was no joke. We were then advised that OC Admin had declared that we were to be held liable because we hadn’t kept the heating on (it was on) and hadn’t left the loft hatch open (!) to prevent pipework from freezing. However, I had personally gone into the loft some weeks before and re-lagged all the pipes by buying one inch thick clip on foam cladding and I also wrapped the existing hessian (all there had previously been) around it. Unknown to me, whilst I was away on detachment the station had employed a contractor to re-lag the pipes. Some moron had taken off my lagging, thrown it to one side and replaced it with very badly fitting foam of half the thickness that I’d supplied and fitted. About a dozen OMQs suffered the same burst pipe that night - same reason. If ever I was going to mutiny, it was then.
The same house suffered a cold water main riser pipe burst on Boxing Day while we were out for the day. It was the central heating supply pipe in the loft. As we got out of the car we could hear rushing water. As I opened the front door the bathroom ceiling collapsed and water began flowing down the stairs. I resisted the urge to switch on the hall lights because water was squirting out of the wall switch. Part of the kitchen ceiling came down later. We got no help at all from the RAF to clean up. All of the loft space was flooded and we removed thirty six bin bags of sodden fibreglass insulation. Supply Sqn came round a couple of days later and removed all the fitted carpets with a view to drying them out but they were rotten through old age. We lived for two months with no carpets and spiked gripper rods exposed on the stairs. We eventually had to put newspaper over the spikes but I still sliced open the heel of my foot on one of them. With two young kids it was no joke. We were then advised that OC Admin had declared that we were to be held liable because we hadn’t kept the heating on (it was on) and hadn’t left the loft hatch open (!) to prevent pipework from freezing. However, I had personally gone into the loft some weeks before and re-lagged all the pipes by buying one inch thick clip on foam cladding and I also wrapped the existing hessian (all there had previously been) around it. Unknown to me, whilst I was away on detachment the station had employed a contractor to re-lag the pipes. Some moron had taken off my lagging, thrown it to one side and replaced it with very badly fitting foam of half the thickness that I’d supplied and fitted. About a dozen OMQs suffered the same burst pipe that night - same reason. If ever I was going to mutiny, it was then.
Second thoughts.
Ministry of Defence pauses new Army housing plans after backlash https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68410400
So not as popular as some have suggested then.
Obviously we know where the split in popularity would have rested, but you’d think a decent bit of consultation beforehand could have told them the likely consequences.
Back to the drawing board.
BV
So not as popular as some have suggested then.
Obviously we know where the split in popularity would have rested, but you’d think a decent bit of consultation beforehand could have told them the likely consequences.
Back to the drawing board.
BV
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Telegraph:
Army wives force MoD about-turn over housing
A Ministry of Defence plan to change the way Army accommodation is allocated has been shelved amid a backlash from military wives, The Telegraph can reveal.
The controversial proposal – which would have allocated housing by the number of children a serviceman or woman has, rather than their rank – was paused by Grant Shapps days after The Telegraph revealed growing anger at the scheme. The Defence Secretary halted the rollout and ordered a review amid fears the Modern Accommodation Offer (MAO) plan was so unpopular that it could have led to an exodus of officers.
A source close to Mr Shapps said: “The Secretary of State is right to get to grips with this. He will pause the family accommodation part of the new policy while we consult and evaluate the policy and make sure it is fit for purpose. Some concerns have been raised from senior officers, and we are confident that we can make changes so that this is a policy which will work for everyone.”…..
On Sunday, it was revealed that Gen Sir Patrick Sanders, the Chief of the General Staff, had told former generals that the plan presented a “risk to the social fabric of the Army”.
The MoD is understood to have been taken aback by the scale of the anger. One senior Army source told The Telegraph that he had officers threatening to quit over the proposals, and said that on Monday he had been receiving updates “on an hourly basis” about how to manage the fallout……
A government source said the concerns about rank-brd housing allocation would be the key area that the MoD would review, noting that it could impact the hierarchical nature of the military’s chain of command. “By pressing pause, we are recognising the fabric of the military and the pressures and tensions of it,” said the source. “We need to make sure we work out the bits people aren’t happy about so that we can find some solution.”
The source said more research would be conducted with officers, as well as their families, after just 69 people were originally interviewed about the impact of the scheme. They added that other parts of the plans would be continued with, including providing help when military personnel were moved to another br and with legal fees for first-time home-buyers.
“These people make the sacrifices they make and we are keen that they have a good standard of places to live – we don’t want people to be so unhappy they are leaving,” said the source.
A Ministry of Defence spokesman said: “We are committed to widening entitlement to those in established long-term relationships and parents with non-resident children.
“But we have listened to feedback and are therefore pausing the rollout of the elements of the policy related to service families’ accommodation, including the move to needs-brd allocation and, in the short term, the widening of entitlement.”
Army wives force MoD about-turn over housing
A Ministry of Defence plan to change the way Army accommodation is allocated has been shelved amid a backlash from military wives, The Telegraph can reveal.
The controversial proposal – which would have allocated housing by the number of children a serviceman or woman has, rather than their rank – was paused by Grant Shapps days after The Telegraph revealed growing anger at the scheme. The Defence Secretary halted the rollout and ordered a review amid fears the Modern Accommodation Offer (MAO) plan was so unpopular that it could have led to an exodus of officers.
A source close to Mr Shapps said: “The Secretary of State is right to get to grips with this. He will pause the family accommodation part of the new policy while we consult and evaluate the policy and make sure it is fit for purpose. Some concerns have been raised from senior officers, and we are confident that we can make changes so that this is a policy which will work for everyone.”…..
On Sunday, it was revealed that Gen Sir Patrick Sanders, the Chief of the General Staff, had told former generals that the plan presented a “risk to the social fabric of the Army”.
The MoD is understood to have been taken aback by the scale of the anger. One senior Army source told The Telegraph that he had officers threatening to quit over the proposals, and said that on Monday he had been receiving updates “on an hourly basis” about how to manage the fallout……
A government source said the concerns about rank-brd housing allocation would be the key area that the MoD would review, noting that it could impact the hierarchical nature of the military’s chain of command. “By pressing pause, we are recognising the fabric of the military and the pressures and tensions of it,” said the source. “We need to make sure we work out the bits people aren’t happy about so that we can find some solution.”
The source said more research would be conducted with officers, as well as their families, after just 69 people were originally interviewed about the impact of the scheme. They added that other parts of the plans would be continued with, including providing help when military personnel were moved to another br and with legal fees for first-time home-buyers.
“These people make the sacrifices they make and we are keen that they have a good standard of places to live – we don’t want people to be so unhappy they are leaving,” said the source.
A Ministry of Defence spokesman said: “We are committed to widening entitlement to those in established long-term relationships and parents with non-resident children.
“But we have listened to feedback and are therefore pausing the rollout of the elements of the policy related to service families’ accommodation, including the move to needs-brd allocation and, in the short term, the widening of entitlement.”
SAR Bloke
I could be wrong and I await correction as required but I believe that, subject to availability, single personnel have been able to apply for excess married quarters for some time. If none are available I doubt that means they can apply for a private rented house at public expense as a family would be able to but again I could be wrong.
BV
BV
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Who'd have thought that people would be against a reduction in their standard of living? That the MoD are 'taken aback' by the response tells you everything you need to know.
There is no money and the forces are already understaffed, meaning that most people work about 3 different jobs. This is a self fulfilling prophecy, and I am glad that it's coming to a head.
There is no money and the forces are already understaffed, meaning that most people work about 3 different jobs. This is a self fulfilling prophecy, and I am glad that it's coming to a head.
SAR bloke,
I've been out a while now, but at the end of my career I found most RAF Officers messes to be empty, with no life or spirit.
Most young single officers moved out as soon as they could, whether that be renting (usually with other officers from the same base), or buying a small house locally.
I was also aware of junior officers living in surplus married quarters.
Getting a room in an Officer's Mess, if you wanted one, wasn't a problem.
I've been out a while now, but at the end of my career I found most RAF Officers messes to be empty, with no life or spirit.
Most young single officers moved out as soon as they could, whether that be renting (usually with other officers from the same base), or buying a small house locally.
I was also aware of junior officers living in surplus married quarters.
Getting a room in an Officer's Mess, if you wanted one, wasn't a problem.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
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