Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

The Kerch Bridge Thread

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

The Kerch Bridge Thread

Old 12th Oct 2022, 17:18
  #181 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: London
Posts: 628
Received 309 Likes on 173 Posts
Hmmm, that does lend a bit more credence to the truck bomb theory.
pasta is online now  
Old 12th Oct 2022, 17:57
  #182 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Blighty
Posts: 788
Received 88 Likes on 22 Posts
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...st-2022-10-12/
Report states the total package, exosives, pallets, packing etc was nearly 23 tonnes!
HOVIS is offline  
Old 12th Oct 2022, 18:40
  #183 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 18,128
Received 2,176 Likes on 986 Posts
New photos of Crimean bridge were published. It’s visible that the second road is a bit wobbly
ORAC is online now  
Old 12th Oct 2022, 18:44
  #184 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,557
Received 3,319 Likes on 1,381 Posts
Looks like they are trying to lift a span back on the bridge.

NutLoose is offline  
Old 12th Oct 2022, 18:46
  #185 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,557
Received 3,319 Likes on 1,381 Posts
Kerch bridge new footage. At 18 seconds is the surviving lane sitting on that? It looks like the rebar has cracked the concrete.., and they are driving over that? In the pictures below the film look at the sag in the second roadway.


under the surviving roadway?





NutLoose is offline  
Old 12th Oct 2022, 19:13
  #186 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 499
Received 71 Likes on 27 Posts
Originally Posted by HOVIS
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...st-2022-10-12/
Report states the total package, exosives, pallets, packing etc was nearly 23 tonnes!
I'm no expert in this field, but I think 23 tonnes of anfo would have done a lot more damage than that.

The Baltic Exchange in London, anfo bomb was 1 tonne in a Transit van, look at the damage that did. I've seen with my own eyes the crater from a mere 1,000lb RAF air dropped dumb bomb, all be it military grade explosives and I realy don't think the Kerch bridge was hit with anything close to 23 tonnes.

However, if it was the FSB, why use anfo if they were going to blame it on Ukraine? If it was Ukraine why use anfo? I'm sure they both have access to military grade explosives. My money is now on dissidents/insurgents, but from which side, is any ones guess.

If it was the FSB, I would be expecting a few of them to be exiting the Kremlin via the sixth floor



WB627 is offline  
Old 12th Oct 2022, 19:54
  #187 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,557
Received 3,319 Likes on 1,381 Posts
So the Russian X-ray of the bomb truck and the images of it, are totally different vehicles

NutLoose is offline  
Old 12th Oct 2022, 20:20
  #188 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 95
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Originally Posted by NutLoose
So the Russian X-ray of the bomb truck and the images of it, are totally different vehicles
https://twitter.com/GlasnostGone/sta...17645101133824
Russia claims the cargo has been unloaded then reloaded between several trucks before reaching the bridge. According to them, the images have been taken at the bridge, and the X-ray at a border crossing, when the cargo was in another truck.

And the FSB's latest story claims an even longer route from the cargo: Odessa Ukraine, Ruse Bulgaria, Poti Georgia, Armenia, back to Georgia, then Russia. I'm actually surprised they didn't mention Romania, as Ruse is near a border crossing between Bulgaria and Romania.

The FSB report, according to RIA Novosti:
Spoiler
 
MikeSnow is offline  
Old 12th Oct 2022, 21:53
  #189 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 499
Received 71 Likes on 27 Posts
The FSB's full statement on the terrorist attack on the Crimean Bridge:

▪️the organizer was the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine, its head Kirill Budanov, employees and agents

▪️ the bomb was camouflaged in rolls with construction polyethylene film on 22 pallets with a total weight of 22.77 tons and in early August was sent from the port of Odessa to the Bulgarian Ruse under contract No. 02/08/2022 between Translogistic UA LLC (Kyiv) and Baltex Capital S.A. (Ruse)

▪️ Ukrainian citizens Mikhail Vladimirovich Tsyurkalo (born in 1975), Denis Olegovich Kovach (1979) and Roman Ivanovich Solomko (1971), Georgian citizens Sandro Inosaridze and a broker named Levan and Armenian citizen Artur Terchanyan (1985) were involved in the organization of cargo transportation from Bulgaria to the port of Poti (Georgia), and then to Armenia.

▪️ from September 29 to October 3 in Yerevan in the terminal "Transalliance" the cargo was cleared according to the rules of the EAEU, the documents were replaced, after which its sender was already LLC "GU AR JI GROUP" (Armenia, Alaverdi), and the recipient was LLC "Leader" (Moscow)

▪️ on October 4, the cargo crossed the Russian-Georgian border through The Upper Lars on a DAF truck registered in Georgia and on October 6 was delivered and unloaded at the wholesale base of Armavir in the Krasnodar Territory

▪️ On October 7, with the assistance of Solomko, a citizen of Ukraine Vladimir Vasilyevich Zlob (1987) and 5 other established citizens of Russia, the documents for the cargo were again changed, the sender was indicated as LLC "TEK-34" (Ulyanovsk), and the recipient was a non-existent company in the Crimea

▪️ on the same day, the pallets were loaded into the truck of Russian citizen Mahir Yusubov (1971), who left for Simferopol, and on October 8 at 06.03, while following the Crimean bridge, an explosion was carried out

▪️ control over the movement of cargo along the entire route and contacts with the participants of the criminal scheme were carried out by an employee of the DIU of the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense, posing as Ivan Ivanovich, who used for coordination both a virtual anonymous number purchased on the Internet and registered in the name of a citizen of Ukraine Sergey Vladimirovich Andreychenko (1988) from Kremenchug

▪️ 5 citizens of Russia, 3 citizens of Ukraine and Armenia who participated in the preparation of the crime were detained

▪️ the investigation continues, all organizers and accomplices, including foreigners, will be brought to justice in accordance with Russian law
Well they would say that, wouldn't they . Only way they have of avoiding a trip to the Gulag, or out of a sixth floor window, if they either did it or failed to stop it.

How do you know when a Russian politician or official is lying?
Spoiler
 
WB627 is offline  
Old 12th Oct 2022, 22:08
  #190 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 15,995
Received 318 Likes on 163 Posts
Reportedly 800+ trucks queueing for the Kerch ferry. Makes you wonder why they don't just use the bridge.

On second thoughts, no it doesn't ...
DaveReidUK is online now  
Old 12th Oct 2022, 22:38
  #191 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 95
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Originally Posted by WB627
Well they would say that, wouldn't they . Only way they have of avoiding a trip to the Gulag, or out of a sixth floor window, if they either did it or failed to stop it.

How do you know when a Russian politician or official is lying?
Spoiler
 
You are probably right, the whole story sounds like an excuse. And, after all the blatant lies they kept spewing over the years, including stuff like "Russia has never attacked anyone", I don't trust anything coming from their side. It's like they are trying to say: "Look, the cargo passed through all these border crossings, and nobody could detect the explosives. So, our border check was not poorly done, it's just that the explosives were really well hidden.".
MikeSnow is offline  
Old 12th Oct 2022, 22:43
  #192 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,557
Received 3,319 Likes on 1,381 Posts
It does make you wonder why on earth would you transport a bomb across so many borders and load it on so many different vehicles, one you are not assured it will not be detected at each border and two you are not assured it would all be shipped / packed together, or even on the same truck.
NutLoose is offline  
Old 12th Oct 2022, 22:55
  #193 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: with the wife
Posts: 371
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
If that bridge is considered to be a main supply route between Russia and Occupied Crimea/ Ukraine, I would have expected to have seen a lot more logistics traffic supporting Russia's forces than there was at the time of the explosion.
4mastacker is offline  
Old 12th Oct 2022, 22:56
  #194 (permalink)  
fdr
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: 3rd Rock, #29B
Posts: 2,986
Received 926 Likes on 271 Posts
Dayglo vests seem to be inappropriate. Lifejackets would be more help.
fdr is offline  
Old 12th Oct 2022, 23:00
  #195 (permalink)  
fdr
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: 3rd Rock, #29B
Posts: 2,986
Received 926 Likes on 271 Posts
Originally Posted by WB627
Well they would say that, wouldn't they . Only way they have of avoiding a trip to the Gulag, or out of a sixth floor window, if they either did it or failed to stop it.

How do you know when a Russian politician or official is lying?
Spoiler
 
It was almost believable until they got to the tell, the giveaway. The article states the term "Russian Law". Aha! No such thing.
fdr is offline  
Old 12th Oct 2022, 23:09
  #196 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: aus
Posts: 1,352
Likes: 0
Received 115 Likes on 73 Posts
Originally Posted by NutLoose
It does make you wonder why on earth would you transport a bomb across so many borders and load it on so many different vehicles, one you are not assured it will not be detected at each border and two you are not assured it would all be shipped / packed together, or even on the same truck.
Christo (Bellingcat) has posted the FSB brief on it, (note he just copied it makes not statements about the a factual correctness of it) The post might answer some questions

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...208339456.html
rattman is offline  
Old 12th Oct 2022, 23:56
  #197 (permalink)  
fdr
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: 3rd Rock, #29B
Posts: 2,986
Received 926 Likes on 271 Posts
Originally Posted by WB627
I'm no expert in this field, but I think 23 tonnes of anfo would have done a lot more damage than that.

The Baltic Exchange in London, anfo bomb was 1 tonne in a Transit van, look at the damage that did. I've seen with my own eyes the crater from a mere 1,000lb RAF air dropped dumb bomb, all be it military grade explosives and I realy don't think the Kerch bridge was hit with anything close to 23 tonnes.

However, if it was the FSB, why use anfo if they were going to blame it on Ukraine? If it was Ukraine why use anfo? I'm sure they both have access to military grade explosives. My money is now on dissidents/insurgents, but from which side, is any ones guess.

If it was the FSB, I would be expecting a few of them to be exiting the Kremlin via the sixth floor
  • 23 Tons, 230 Tons, 2.3 Tons, what's in a decimal point? (Oklahoma City A.P. Murray building was 3.2 T of ANFO... )
  • 72 hours to have the whole paper trail for the event from the FSB. Across two countries that they have entry restrictions to, due to their aggression... Pink panther efficiency!
  • The photos of the truck are a different truck to the photos of the X-rayed Truck, and not even close. About as good as FSB passports and service IDs have been. They are really slipping. Ooops.
  • The X-Ray shows the rat cunningly hidden load!. on the trailer. The trailer is not the same trailer as in the photo immediately before the explosion. Ooops.
So the FSB has the capability to go and do a detailed trace of the movements of a trailer, over what, a 3-4 week period, in the middle of a war of their making, in countries that are opposed to their actions, one being a NATO member, and the other wanting to be... A third country that is being provided assistance by NATO members against the latest attacks against their borders...

The differences in the truck trailer are an issue, as then the question is, when that occurred (apparently the theory of the FSB) how was the fact that the load was a bunch of bombs with bomb paraphernalia hidden from the truck owner, or trailer owner? How did it get fuzed? How did they time a detonation of an unsuspecting driver's trailer load to have it happen anywhere on the causeway or bridge area? This isn't German rail (pre latest sabotage... or Swiss precision, it's Russia... in a time of unease... If an external observer is running around with a phone, to hit "send", how do they loiter on the bridge approaches long enough to meet up with the truck after it has concluded it's random timeline through security? If it is a vehicle behind the truck, the same issue arises. Clock and remote triggering seem implausible, and it doesn't seem to fit that the uncle was a party to a truck bombing.

Some of the pier concrete spalling needs some close examination, it doesn't look like explosive damage, and it is in an odd place. Not certain that it is indicating where the detonation occurred at all, but doesn't look like preexisting damage.

The truck tyres don't seem to be suggesting 23 Tons of charge, nor does the X ray of the rat cunning trailer load... Overloaded tyres look more like this:









fdr is offline  
Old 13th Oct 2022, 00:00
  #198 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: aus
Posts: 1,352
Likes: 0
Received 115 Likes on 73 Posts
Originally Posted by fdr

The differences in the truck trailer are an issue, as then the question is, when that occurred (apparently the theory of the FSB)
The Xray was from when it crossed into georgia I believe it was then swapped to another truck, that truck wasn't xrayed at the bridge entrance, because reasons and went boom on the bridge.

that according to the a FSB dossier
rattman is offline  
Old 13th Oct 2022, 01:17
  #199 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: USA
Posts: 991
Received 365 Likes on 197 Posts
In the Nutloose post in The Kerch Bridge Thread one can see the bent guardrail supports along the edge nearest to the still-standing span essentially pointing away from what I expect was the center of the blast. They also point to about where the fallen span got creased.

Those supports would have been protected from that damage if the bomb was below the bridge deck.

Recall that Mathias Rust got to Moscow in a small plane - never underestimate the inability of a security force to imagine something happening. Look at what was lost when a few guys with box cutters got past airport security because the FAA failed to understand that a hijacker could be an educated pilot and not require the flight crew to remain alive. Security is better after the fact at looking at cameras and records later to unravel the problem.


MechEngr is offline  
Old 13th Oct 2022, 01:21
  #200 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Devon
Age: 60
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Tractor unit was owner/driver rig who tendered/accepted a bid/price (guarantee of getting the job?) to deliver from Armavir to Simferopol, likely he also owned the trailer used. No sign of the trailer having a tail lift so pallets presumerably loaded by fork lift at Armavir and the drivers of both truck and forklift (if used) could well have been blisfully unaware of contents other than was written on the paperwork. Cell phone GPS is simple enough when reaching set coords, assumig a signal and battery life.

Pure speculation on my part however and no doubt those who do know won't be saying.

Last edited by Redlands; 13th Oct 2022 at 02:43. Reason: Added 'accepted a bid'
Redlands is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.