Not-so-woke Reds
I think that is O T T ................... lots of excellent people in the team, a few bad apples. However, I cannot see good coming if flying displays continue in the short term.
Take a break, people, go on gardening leave until a considered decision and solution is made by the grown-ups [if any] among the Airships.
What a bloody mess.
Take a break, people, go on gardening leave until a considered decision and solution is made by the grown-ups [if any] among the Airships.
What a bloody mess.
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This must be a point when the "bringing the service into disrepute" principle kicks in, isn't it?
There would seem to be an opportunity during the display off-season to take appropriate action, and come up with a plan for next year, perhaps a scaled down team, or even taking a year out until things are sorted.
There would seem to be an opportunity during the display off-season to take appropriate action, and come up with a plan for next year, perhaps a scaled down team, or even taking a year out until things are sorted.
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I probably agree, time to bin them, at least for a season, possibly longer, the crews could be better employed elsewhere, they are not exactly ambassadors anymore with the baggage they now come with and who wants to buy Hawks these days.
Not exactly a glowing endorsement for the team is it.
Not exactly a glowing endorsement for the team is it.
It has been revealed male officers bombarded female colleagues with requests for sexual favours and made inappropriate advances, often when drunk. When they were refused they frequently became abusive.
Wg Cdr Montenegro suspended.
Bit sensational and probably over the top, from 5 years ago, and it's only while the investigation continues. Seems no-one complained though....
The top commander of the Red Arrows has been suspended from his post while an alleged relationship with a junior member of his team is investigated. Wing Commander David Montenegro, a father of two, was suspended from the aerobatic team on Monday. Details of the affair, which allegedly resulted in the junior colleague’s pregnancy, were first reported in the Daily Mail.
Mr Montenegro reportedly met the female corporal in 2017 when he had two sons with a woman he went on to marry. The affair with his colleague apparently lasted a year, during which time he held the position of “Red One”, the most senior pilot within the squadron, while the corporal was allegedly a member of the ground crew. As an Officer Commanding Royal Air Force Aerobatic Team, Mr Montenegro would have been in charge of the Arrows’ aircrews and ground staff. The female corporal has reportedly since left the RAF.
The RAF was said to be concerned that the relationship would have compromised the effectiveness of the squadron and there is no suggestion that he abused or harassed the woman.
I personally think the investigation could well be compromised by recent events. Maybe the Wg Cdr has been scapegoated?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...claims-affair/
Bit sensational and probably over the top, from 5 years ago, and it's only while the investigation continues. Seems no-one complained though....
The top commander of the Red Arrows has been suspended from his post while an alleged relationship with a junior member of his team is investigated. Wing Commander David Montenegro, a father of two, was suspended from the aerobatic team on Monday. Details of the affair, which allegedly resulted in the junior colleague’s pregnancy, were first reported in the Daily Mail.
Mr Montenegro reportedly met the female corporal in 2017 when he had two sons with a woman he went on to marry. The affair with his colleague apparently lasted a year, during which time he held the position of “Red One”, the most senior pilot within the squadron, while the corporal was allegedly a member of the ground crew. As an Officer Commanding Royal Air Force Aerobatic Team, Mr Montenegro would have been in charge of the Arrows’ aircrews and ground staff. The female corporal has reportedly since left the RAF.
The RAF was said to be concerned that the relationship would have compromised the effectiveness of the squadron and there is no suggestion that he abused or harassed the woman.
I personally think the investigation could well be compromised by recent events. Maybe the Wg Cdr has been scapegoated?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...claims-affair/
Last edited by cynicalint; 22nd Nov 2022 at 00:27. Reason: Did not see Rafengo #262
How is it that every manjack and his wife in the rest of society is allowed, nay encouraged to perform every kind of act imaginable having adopted a multiturde more gender identities than most can imagine and self identifying as an improbable number of other things and it's a herecy worthy of de-platforming, attitude re-assignment punishments and even dismissal even to question this ludicrous 'orthodoxy' - yet the poor Reds get crucified for doing the consuensual thing that standard-issue men and women have been doing since the dawn of time...
I call this witch-hunt, for that's what it is, it outrageously prejudiced, and as it's always the man that gets punished it's clearly utterly sexist misandry - and thus utterly illegal and immoral, surely?
I call this witch-hunt, for that's what it is, it outrageously prejudiced, and as it's always the man that gets punished it's clearly utterly sexist misandry - and thus utterly illegal and immoral, surely?
I will just say this: I met David Montenegro at a ceremony in Hong Kong on the 29th of October 2016. He came across. to me at least, as a courteous, thoughtful and dedicated man who was a credit to his unit, to my former service and to his country.
I think we have to ask ourselves what we want an RAF Officer /Red Arrow to be ? Should we expect them to have the same values as a UK politician, a member of the public or a monk perhaps? If we expect them to be honourable, upstanding chaps/chappesses, that’s fair enough. But maybe we should expect the same from the senior leadership, and politicians too?
I think we have to ask ourselves what we want an RAF Officer /Red Arrow to be ? Should we expect them to have the same values as a UK politician, a member of the public or a monk perhaps? If we expect them to be honourable, upstanding chaps/chappesses, that’s fair enough. But maybe we should expect the same from the senior leadership, and politicians too?
now we are scraping the barrel in defence of the Red Arrows.
FWIW, I cannot possibly believe it’s safe for the remaining pilots to fly for an entirely optional activity (displays) in their current format.
disperse the team, reset - practically and ethically - and try again next year.
This current situation meets all the definition of a tragedy for the Reds and it brings me no joy, I have respected and enjoyed their skill and precision since the 1960's. I feel sorry for the Reds of earlier generations who built the reputation of the team for excellence which is now being tarnished. I am afraid that only the excision of those clearly proved culpable will save the day for the team. If the team is disbanded- as some have suggested- I cannot see it ever being reformed, politics and economics will come in to play. They need to work through the current difficulties and be transparent about the changes and reforms they have made.
Two consenting adults have had a year long relationship that involved consensual sex that results in a pregnancy and subsequently sadly a miscarriage. Neither married, and no one’s business if the chain of command code hasn’t been broken. As she was an engineer and he wasn’t OC at the time, he wouldn’t have been in her chain of command.
Its 2022 folks, the world has thankfully moved on with its moral judgement.
Its 2022 folks, the world has thankfully moved on with its moral judgement.
It's been a 2-tier RAF for years, FJ pilots in particular treated differently to the rest in respect of behaviours (sexual/alcohol/high-jinks etc.). Bearing in mind the majority of those in positions of power in the RAF are ex-pilots themselves then it can come as no surprise to them what has been un-earthed recently??
It's been a 2-tier RAF for years, FJ pilots in particular treated differently to the rest in respect of behaviours (sexual/alcohol/high-jinks etc.). Bearing in mind the majority of those in positions of power in the RAF are ex-pilots themselves then it can come as no surprise to them what has been un-earthed recently??
No chips here (I'm not a pilot of any flavour), I have however worked/deployed with loads and seen first-hand dubious behaviours 'accepted/ignored' by the CoC, hence my comment that surely none of this is a surprise to anyone, especially CAS?
