Not-so-woke Reds
We had an armourer Sergeant that decided to kill his smuggled vodka the same night and was found wandering naked and abusive around Trenchard. Two can Saturdays were banned from then on and the place was dry. The person that applied the ban was CO 903 EAW. His name was Mike Wigston.
Is there a case for grounding the Reds for flight safety reasons until the inquiry is complete and remedial action taken?
Such an action would show leadership, intent, that the matter is being taken sufficiently seriously, being given due attention and allow it to be resolved (hopefully) more quickly.
As for flight safety, I'm sure lots of people will say these are all highly trained "professionals" who can get on with the job despite the situation. But can anyone truly say that with everything that is going on, and there's talk that we're only seeing the tip of the iceberg, so we can only guess the full extent, that the situation isn't providing a serious distraction, at least for some (and it's not all about the pilots), from the task at hand?
What was the name of that Flight Safety film from the 70s/80s with the (fictional I should add) experienced Jaguar flight commander who died ....ah yes, "Distractions"!! (still available on youtube).
Or will the RAF just stick it's fingers in it's ears and say "nothing to see here, move on, we're taking this seriously, an investigation is in progress, lessons will be identified", all the usual mouth music.
Is PR/image more important to the RAF than flight safety?
Such an action would show leadership, intent, that the matter is being taken sufficiently seriously, being given due attention and allow it to be resolved (hopefully) more quickly.
As for flight safety, I'm sure lots of people will say these are all highly trained "professionals" who can get on with the job despite the situation. But can anyone truly say that with everything that is going on, and there's talk that we're only seeing the tip of the iceberg, so we can only guess the full extent, that the situation isn't providing a serious distraction, at least for some (and it's not all about the pilots), from the task at hand?
What was the name of that Flight Safety film from the 70s/80s with the (fictional I should add) experienced Jaguar flight commander who died ....ah yes, "Distractions"!! (still available on youtube).
Or will the RAF just stick it's fingers in it's ears and say "nothing to see here, move on, we're taking this seriously, an investigation is in progress, lessons will be identified", all the usual mouth music.
Is PR/image more important to the RAF than flight safety?
Last edited by Biggus; 25th Aug 2022 at 10:54.
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They should go undercover and paint the jets black 
Internally is probably an entirely different matter and, whilst these revelations have reached the public domain, many of the issues bear a horrible and uncanny similarity to events at Lossie where it took, as I understand it, an SAC to have the moral courage to stand up in public and address a VSO as to the then flight safety culture...which lead to a significant investigation and some individuals " no longer employed "
CG
PS, what's an AMM?
Aircraft Maintenance Manual. IPC is Illustrated Parts Catalogue, SRM is Structure Repair Manual and all aircraft engineering APs had similar descriptions in their titles as well as the AP101B aircraft type - 1 (AMM), 2 (mods), 3(IPC) etc..
Is there a case for grounding the Reds for flight safety reasons until the inquiry is complete and remedial action taken?
Such an action would show leadership, intent, that the matter is being taken sufficiently seriously, being given due attention and allow it to be resolved (hopefully) more quickly.
As for flight safety, I'm sure lots of people will say these are all highly trained "professionals" who can get on with the job despite the situation. But can anyone truly say that with everything that is going on, and there's talk that we're only seeing the tip of the iceberg, so we can only guess the full extent, that the situation isn't providing a serious distraction, at least for some (and it's not all about the pilots), from the task at hand?
What was the name of that Flight Safety film from the 70s/80s with the (fictional I should add) experienced Jaguar flight commander who died ....ah yes, "Distractions"!! (still available on youtube).
Or will the RAF just stick it's fingers in it's ears and say "nothing to see here, move on, we're taking this seriously, an investigation is in progress, lessons will be identified", all the usual mouth music.
Is PR/image more important to the RAF than flight safety?
Such an action would show leadership, intent, that the matter is being taken sufficiently seriously, being given due attention and allow it to be resolved (hopefully) more quickly.
As for flight safety, I'm sure lots of people will say these are all highly trained "professionals" who can get on with the job despite the situation. But can anyone truly say that with everything that is going on, and there's talk that we're only seeing the tip of the iceberg, so we can only guess the full extent, that the situation isn't providing a serious distraction, at least for some (and it's not all about the pilots), from the task at hand?
What was the name of that Flight Safety film from the 70s/80s with the (fictional I should add) experienced Jaguar flight commander who died ....ah yes, "Distractions"!! (still available on youtube).
Or will the RAF just stick it's fingers in it's ears and say "nothing to see here, move on, we're taking this seriously, an investigation is in progress, lessons will be identified", all the usual mouth music.
Is PR/image more important to the RAF than flight safety?
No, he was referring to AMM in the context of Aircraft Maintenance Mechanic. Otherwise known as a "liney".
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Actually, no, quite the reverse in fact as I understand it. Those whose "services were no longer required " were much, much higher up the food chain and their departure had serious ramifications for a relaxed retirement
An AMM is the current equivalent of what you would have known / encountered as FLM's albeit there are differences. Engineers all start as AMM's, then, in theory, do 12-18months being liney's before returning to do their Tech's course to become SAC Techs, as was. before the latest name change. They were streamed however between Mech / Avionic for future employment, but if they were Avionic, they could be back on a Techs course within 9 months due to the shortage.
An AMM is the current equivalent of what you would have known / encountered as FLM's albeit there are differences. Engineers all start as AMM's, then, in theory, do 12-18months being liney's before returning to do their Tech's course to become SAC Techs, as was. before the latest name change. They were streamed however between Mech / Avionic for future employment, but if they were Avionic, they could be back on a Techs course within 9 months due to the shortage.
Actually, no, quite the reverse in fact as I understand it. Those whose "services were no longer required " were much, much higher up the food chain and their departure had serious ramifications for a relaxed retirement
An AMM is the current equivalent of what you would have known / encountered as FLM's albeit there are differences.
An AMM is the current equivalent of what you would have known / encountered as FLM's albeit there are differences.
CG
ATCO's, and Airline crews are under constant threat of alcohol/drugs tests, so why can't the RAF get a grip of this?
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Nutty, you’d be surprised how appealing OO deployments were/are. For all the talk of how things used to be, this generation or the half generation ago are or were involved in proper kinetic operations. We are and have been involved in combat. Oh for the good old days of the Cold War and getting pissed on Wobbly.
The irony is that, for all the talk of this generation being woke, we are, and have, and are still on Ops. Not training for Ops.
The Reds offers a chance for front line FJ pilots to have a rest and do something different. For all that I take the piss out of them for being (currently) not on the front line, they all have and deserve a respite tour on RAFAT and do a fantastic job.
The irony is that, for all the talk of this generation being woke, we are, and have, and are still on Ops. Not training for Ops.
The Reds offers a chance for front line FJ pilots to have a rest and do something different. For all that I take the piss out of them for being (currently) not on the front line, they all have and deserve a respite tour on RAFAT and do a fantastic job.
it’s not exactly a forgotten war but it does piss me off when fellow old goats go on about “young people today” being slackers. I know if I were 30 years younger… I’d have **** myself at the first mortar alarm.
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Smoke on...and go..
Glad everyones ok.
Glad everyones ok.
Of course. Silly me. Of course they have gone the same way as the FLM. I never saw them as the type I worked on didn't get them due to the retirement of it. It is direct entrant Techs now for all aircraft trades is it not?
I think there is a good case for grounding them for the rest of the season and starting afresh. In this day and age there shouldn't be any hint of drinking culture around the display circuit. Some friends had an unpleasant experience of another display crew (ground-crew) in a resort hotel. Rude, loud, dishevelled and worse for wear and yet still wearing enough bits of uniform identifying them as RAF people supposedly on the front-line of PR. Time for a big reset.
ATCO's, and Airline crews are under constant threat of alcohol/drugs tests, so why can't the RAF get a grip of this?
ATCO's, and Airline crews are under constant threat of alcohol/drugs tests, so why can't the RAF get a grip of this?
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That said, the change was overdue. First, the AMM course was basic, very basic, and did them a disservice in many respects . However, the "well known rotary station " decided, that, whilst initially on their tour they would be liney's, and go on a deployment to Afghan, they also tried to give them a jolly as a further inducement, but, the neat bit was to get them involved in Depth, ok 2nd Line for those of a certain vintage, and as this is what they would eventually be doing, lo and behold....it worked !..so back they came...same for the trucking world more or less. This wasn't some hitherto unknown altruism from the RAF grown ups, more a realisation both parties benefitted.
The change to direct entrant made sense therefore, plus, it saved a few quid as well.
Back to how the PR machine is going to handle the now very public issues with the Reds
It is, but that's a recent development although for Armourers this was always the case. With their date of joining shown, several of the Circus back seaters would have come via the AMM > Tech route.
That said, the change was overdue. First, the AMM course was basic, very basic, and did them a disservice in many respects . However, the "well known rotary station " decided, that, whilst initially on their tour they would be liney's, and go on a deployment to Afghan, they also tried to give them a jolly as a further inducement, but, the neat bit was to get them involved in Depth, ok 2nd Line for those of a certain vintage, and as this is what they would eventually be doing, lo and behold....it worked !..so back they came...same for the trucking world more or less. This wasn't some hitherto unknown altruism from the RAF grown ups, more a realisation both parties benefitted.
The change to direct entrant made sense therefore, plus, it saved a few quid as well.
Back to how the PR machine is going to handle the now very public issues with the Reds
That said, the change was overdue. First, the AMM course was basic, very basic, and did them a disservice in many respects . However, the "well known rotary station " decided, that, whilst initially on their tour they would be liney's, and go on a deployment to Afghan, they also tried to give them a jolly as a further inducement, but, the neat bit was to get them involved in Depth, ok 2nd Line for those of a certain vintage, and as this is what they would eventually be doing, lo and behold....it worked !..so back they came...same for the trucking world more or less. This wasn't some hitherto unknown altruism from the RAF grown ups, more a realisation both parties benefitted.
The change to direct entrant made sense therefore, plus, it saved a few quid as well.
Back to how the PR machine is going to handle the now very public issues with the Reds