AUKUS
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From: A better place.
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...elaide-council
Plan to dispose of nuclear waste from Aukus submarines unanimously rejected by Adelaide council
Plans to dispose of low-level nuclear waste from Aukus submarines at an Adelaide naval facility have been unanimously opposed by the local council for the area, who say they weren’t consulted.
The Osborne naval shipyard, 25km north of Adelaide CBD, and HMAS Stirling at Garden Island 50km south of Perth in Western Australia, have both been designated as “radioactive waste management facilities” for nuclear waste from Aukus submarines under the Australian naval nuclear power safety bill, which passed parliament in October.
Last week, the City of Port Adelaide Enfield – responsible for the area surrounding the Osborne shipyard – voted to unanimously oppose the storage and disposal of radioactive waste at the site. Its mayor, Claire Boan, said council had been briefed on aspects of the Aukus project but it had not received any correspondence or communication about management and disposal of nuclear waste at the site.
“While the decision-making regarding this is out of the control of the council, we will continue to advocate for our community and lobby for community consultation throughout the process,” she said.
Rex Patrick, a former independent senator for South Australia, said the situation highlighted the lack of consultation and transparency regarding Aukus nuclear waste. “Albanese called for Dutton to disclose where he was going to put his nuclear power reactors, and yet there’s been complete secrecy around the entire process associated with where they’ll put the high-level waste from naval reactors,” he said.
No public announcements have been made about the site selection or consultation process for dealing with the high-level nuclear waste associated with the Aukus submarines, which the government agreed Australia would dispose of in March last year.
While the type of radioactive waste to be managed at the Osborne shipyard was not detailed in the legislation, the health minister, Mark Butler, the Labor member for Port Adelaide and Hindmarsh, told the ABC that it would be low-level material.
A spokesperson for the deputy prime minister, Richard Marles, said submarine construction, test and commissioning activities planned for Osborne would generate “small amounts” of low-level waste like gloves, wipes or personal protective equipment that would need to be managed and temporarily stored at the site.
“No intermediate-level or high-level radioactive waste (spent nuclear fuel) will be managed or stored at HMAS Stirling or the Osborne Submarine Construction Yard facilities,” the spokesperson said.
Nigel Marks, an associate professor and nuclear scientist at Curtin University, said low-level nuclear waste was “radioactive, but not dangerous”.
There wasn’t usually consultation for managing low-level material at other facilities like hospitals or in industry, he said, noting “you’d never get away with an intermediate or high-level waste repository without hardcore community engagement”.
The uncertainty surrounding the storage of intermediate and higher-level nuclear waste from the Aukus submarines didn’t help, he said.
He said the government could get on the front foot by explaining the site selection pathway and consultation process for dealing with the high-level nuclear waste from Aukus.
“That’d be smart politics, good science,” he said. “It’ll take a little while to do that, but there’s definitely precedent in Finland or Sweden for how you should manage it.”
Plan to dispose of nuclear waste from Aukus submarines unanimously rejected by Adelaide council
Plans to dispose of low-level nuclear waste from Aukus submarines at an Adelaide naval facility have been unanimously opposed by the local council for the area, who say they weren’t consulted.
The Osborne naval shipyard, 25km north of Adelaide CBD, and HMAS Stirling at Garden Island 50km south of Perth in Western Australia, have both been designated as “radioactive waste management facilities” for nuclear waste from Aukus submarines under the Australian naval nuclear power safety bill, which passed parliament in October.
Last week, the City of Port Adelaide Enfield – responsible for the area surrounding the Osborne shipyard – voted to unanimously oppose the storage and disposal of radioactive waste at the site. Its mayor, Claire Boan, said council had been briefed on aspects of the Aukus project but it had not received any correspondence or communication about management and disposal of nuclear waste at the site.
“While the decision-making regarding this is out of the control of the council, we will continue to advocate for our community and lobby for community consultation throughout the process,” she said.
Rex Patrick, a former independent senator for South Australia, said the situation highlighted the lack of consultation and transparency regarding Aukus nuclear waste. “Albanese called for Dutton to disclose where he was going to put his nuclear power reactors, and yet there’s been complete secrecy around the entire process associated with where they’ll put the high-level waste from naval reactors,” he said.
No public announcements have been made about the site selection or consultation process for dealing with the high-level nuclear waste associated with the Aukus submarines, which the government agreed Australia would dispose of in March last year.
While the type of radioactive waste to be managed at the Osborne shipyard was not detailed in the legislation, the health minister, Mark Butler, the Labor member for Port Adelaide and Hindmarsh, told the ABC that it would be low-level material.
A spokesperson for the deputy prime minister, Richard Marles, said submarine construction, test and commissioning activities planned for Osborne would generate “small amounts” of low-level waste like gloves, wipes or personal protective equipment that would need to be managed and temporarily stored at the site.
“No intermediate-level or high-level radioactive waste (spent nuclear fuel) will be managed or stored at HMAS Stirling or the Osborne Submarine Construction Yard facilities,” the spokesperson said.
Nigel Marks, an associate professor and nuclear scientist at Curtin University, said low-level nuclear waste was “radioactive, but not dangerous”.
There wasn’t usually consultation for managing low-level material at other facilities like hospitals or in industry, he said, noting “you’d never get away with an intermediate or high-level waste repository without hardcore community engagement”.
The uncertainty surrounding the storage of intermediate and higher-level nuclear waste from the Aukus submarines didn’t help, he said.
He said the government could get on the front foot by explaining the site selection pathway and consultation process for dealing with the high-level nuclear waste from Aukus.
“That’d be smart politics, good science,” he said. “It’ll take a little while to do that, but there’s definitely precedent in Finland or Sweden for how you should manage it.”
We've got the whole of the Pilbara craton here - effectively one of the oldest single slabs of geographically stable rock on earth.
Plenty of room in the GAFA...
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Oz
If Trump torpedoes AUKUS and stops Oz getting the Virginia class subs, do we get our $billion back?
Now for the dumb question. How does one country pay another country $1 Billion. Is it just a computer entry where you type in the BSB-Account no, amount and click on 'send'?
Now for the dumb question. How does one country pay another country $1 Billion. Is it just a computer entry where you type in the BSB-Account no, amount and click on 'send'?
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 883
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From: Australia
It appears that the $Billions that Australia has given the US is not enough to lift US submarine construction out of the doldrums and they need another injection from Congress. I believe that the shipbuilders are having to offer significantly higher wages to attract workers and this is blowing out the budgets.
They have a lot of work to do to free up 3 Virginia’s for the RAN to acquire.
https://breakingdefense.com/2024/11/...arine-funding/
They have a lot of work to do to free up 3 Virginia’s for the RAN to acquire.
https://breakingdefense.com/2024/11/...arine-funding/
"Plans to dispose of low-level nuclear waste from Aukus submarines at an Adelaide naval facility have been unanimously opposed by the local council for the area, who say they weren’t consulted."
tartare: do you have a large property? Stable geology there? Is it isolated from other habitation? I am sure both parties are looking for a receptive recipient for the eventual storage of high level waste as well.
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From: Texas
Why would he do that?
Trump's "tough on China" attitude in his first term was roughly followed by Biden (slightly different style, core policy the same). I'd expect the same approach as he assumes office. AUKUS fits well within the 'tough on China' theme.
Trump's "tough on China" attitude in his first term was roughly followed by Biden (slightly different style, core policy the same). I'd expect the same approach as he assumes office. AUKUS fits well within the 'tough on China' theme.
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Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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From: Peripatetic
Tods Techology has purchased ex-Portland Engineering site. Say "over coming months 4.5 acre site with over 38,000 sq ft of building will be transformed into production facility for acoustically tuned structural composite components". Accompanying image is self explanatory!
Joined: Nov 2010
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From: Australia
ORAC,
You usually provide regular AUKUS submarine updates, but seem to have missed this significant recent news:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-12-...boss/104689730
RADM Peter Briggs also offered a novel alternative approach via this discussion:
https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/au...-ssns-instead/
You usually provide regular AUKUS submarine updates, but seem to have missed this significant recent news:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-12-...boss/104689730
RADM Peter Briggs also offered a novel alternative approach via this discussion:
https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/au...-ssns-instead/
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,618
Likes: 205
From: aus
RADM Peter Briggs also offered a novel alternative approach via this discussion:
https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/au...-ssns-instead/
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 883
Likes: 225
From: Australia
I dont think I have read drivel and total rubbish in article in my life ASPI used to be somewhat legit but have gone full retard in the last few years. I just think they they are desperate for content they will allow anyone to make submissions with close to zero editorial oversight
If this is drivel and total rubbish, then what are you saying about the selection process for senior RAN positions?
In any case, if ASPI are desperate for content, then it is a good opportunity to submit a critical review of what he was proposing.
Joined: Apr 2009
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From: A place in the sun
On another tack, not many of us know much about submarine navigation - and even old fashioned air navigation. Here is a retired submariner describing the methods used in the past and some of the difficulties - much like flying under water, including 'air traffic control'!
Joined: Dec 2021
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From: Noumea
Once again,
AUKUS risks are piling up. Australia must prepare to build French SSNs instead | The Strategist
Maybe rubbish for all the Aussie airline pilots so common here, but "Peter Briggs is a retired submarine specialist and a past president of the Submarine Institute of Australia."
Rear Admiral it seems ? maybe not so unfamiliar with the topic.
Years to come are going to be fun downsouth.
AUKUS risks are piling up. Australia must prepare to build French SSNs instead | The Strategist
Maybe rubbish for all the Aussie airline pilots so common here, but "Peter Briggs is a retired submarine specialist and a past president of the Submarine Institute of Australia."
Rear Admiral it seems ? maybe not so unfamiliar with the topic.
Years to come are going to be fun downsouth.
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 883
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From: Australia
Meanwhile, Rex Patrick expresses his views on the saga of Australian submarine acquisitions, stretching back to the days of Collins:
https://michaelwest.com.au/collins-c...-top-of-aukus/
He would have benefited from some time working within Defence HQ, as then he wouldn't be offering comments like: "Defence then recommended to government that Australia embark on the $368B AUKUS program...".
I say again: Peter Dutton stated clearly on an ABC TV interview years back (7:30 Report?) that the AUKUS plan was known to only a hand full of people. So let's make some assumptions: Morrison, Dutton, CDF?, Sec Def?, a few other cabinet ministers?, some ministerial advisers, some go betweens with USA and UK. Already more than a hand full. Where in all this is a real (departmental) "Defence recommendation"? Hey Rex??
Rex makes another revelation in the item (to me at least): "In May [24] former US Navy Dep Assistant Secretary Gloria Valdez handed a report to government stating that LOTE [on Collins class] was a perilously high-risk endeavour" and that this report is being kept secret even from ASC.
While I can understand it is sometimes useful to have a fresh external/independent view of a plan, I am left wondering what resources Gloria had to draw on to make what ever assessment is in the report? I would have expected those in ASC and the Collins sustainment engineers within Defence would have the clearest understanding of the material state of the class and what would be required to extract more life from it. But no, they will later just be blamed for all that has gone wrong... again...
https://michaelwest.com.au/collins-c...-top-of-aukus/
He would have benefited from some time working within Defence HQ, as then he wouldn't be offering comments like: "Defence then recommended to government that Australia embark on the $368B AUKUS program...".
I say again: Peter Dutton stated clearly on an ABC TV interview years back (7:30 Report?) that the AUKUS plan was known to only a hand full of people. So let's make some assumptions: Morrison, Dutton, CDF?, Sec Def?, a few other cabinet ministers?, some ministerial advisers, some go betweens with USA and UK. Already more than a hand full. Where in all this is a real (departmental) "Defence recommendation"? Hey Rex??
Rex makes another revelation in the item (to me at least): "In May [24] former US Navy Dep Assistant Secretary Gloria Valdez handed a report to government stating that LOTE [on Collins class] was a perilously high-risk endeavour" and that this report is being kept secret even from ASC.
While I can understand it is sometimes useful to have a fresh external/independent view of a plan, I am left wondering what resources Gloria had to draw on to make what ever assessment is in the report? I would have expected those in ASC and the Collins sustainment engineers within Defence would have the clearest understanding of the material state of the class and what would be required to extract more life from it. But no, they will later just be blamed for all that has gone wrong... again...
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: South Pole
The development of the high precision Quantum navigation system appears to be progressing such that it will be available for the Dreadnought class and subsequent AUKUS SSN’s - a very significant improvement for submarine navigation.
https://www.asdnews.com/news/defense..._content=title
https://www.asdnews.com/news/defense..._content=title
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,618
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From: aus
I say again: Peter Dutton stated clearly on an ABC TV interview years back (7:30 Report?) that the AUKUS plan was known to only a hand full of people. So let's make some assumptions: Morrison, Dutton, CDF?, Sec Def?, a few other cabinet ministers?, some ministerial advisers, some go betweens with USA and UK. Already more than a hand full. Where in all this is a real (departmental) "Defence recommendation"? Hey Rex??
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 638
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From: australia
For First Time, Australian Submariner Earns US Dolphins > United States Navy > News Stories
There are currently more than 100 Royal Australian Navy officers in the U.S. Navy submarine training pipeline or assigned to U.S. Virginia-class SSNs. Military training efforts under the AUKUS Pillar 1 effort are designed to enable Australia to operate, maintain, and support a sovereign fleet of conventionally armed, nuclear-powered submarines to deter aggression and enhance stability in the Indo-Pacific region.
Last edited by golder; 7th January 2025 at 00:15.
Joined: Nov 2010
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From: Australia
Yes, am aware of officers going through the training pipeline. Incidentally, there is that bit at the end of the item you linked: "Per Royal Australian Navy protocols, submariners’ last names are not publicly released". But if that is the case, they haven't been consistent with this approach for several who have gone through the pipeline as it isn't so hard to identify them.
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Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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From: Peripatetic
https://www.politico.com/live-update...aukus-00198393
Rubio backs AUKUS
Marco Rubio, Donald Trump’s pick to lead the State Department, affirmed Wednesday that the three-nation submarine pact known as AUKUS has his support, offering the first indication that the administration will back the deal.
Rubio’s comments, made at his Senate confirmation hearing, will likely reassure countries worried about the agreement’s future. Rubio called it a “blueprint” for other partnerships.
The AUKUS pact is a trilateral defense agreement forged under President Joe Biden between the U.S., U.K. and Australia to develop and share technology for nuclear-powered submarines.
The pact has strong bipartisan backing, although some Republican critics argue the Biden administration hasn't gone far enough to implement it. “A lot of us have been pressing the administration to gear that up,” Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chair Jim Risch (R-Idaho) said at the hearing. “It has not been forthcoming.”
Rubio’s remarks could soothe allies’ fears that Trump would seek to renegotiate the pact or abandon it all together.
Trump's State Department choice not only supported the pact but also noted the U.S. could create similar “consortium-like partnerships with nation-states” on defense and advanced technologies.
The agreement “is obviously defense-related, but it's an example of how we can leverage partnerships with allies,” Rubio said.
Rubio backs AUKUS
Marco Rubio, Donald Trump’s pick to lead the State Department, affirmed Wednesday that the three-nation submarine pact known as AUKUS has his support, offering the first indication that the administration will back the deal.
Rubio’s comments, made at his Senate confirmation hearing, will likely reassure countries worried about the agreement’s future. Rubio called it a “blueprint” for other partnerships.
The AUKUS pact is a trilateral defense agreement forged under President Joe Biden between the U.S., U.K. and Australia to develop and share technology for nuclear-powered submarines.
The pact has strong bipartisan backing, although some Republican critics argue the Biden administration hasn't gone far enough to implement it. “A lot of us have been pressing the administration to gear that up,” Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chair Jim Risch (R-Idaho) said at the hearing. “It has not been forthcoming.”
Rubio’s remarks could soothe allies’ fears that Trump would seek to renegotiate the pact or abandon it all together.
Trump's State Department choice not only supported the pact but also noted the U.S. could create similar “consortium-like partnerships with nation-states” on defense and advanced technologies.
The agreement “is obviously defense-related, but it's an example of how we can leverage partnerships with allies,” Rubio said.
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Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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From: Peripatetic
UPDATE: Plans to double the size of Rolls-Royce's Raynesway site in Derby and create more than 1,100 new jobs have taken a major step forward.
Specialist design partners - AtkinsRéalis and Mott MacDonald - have been appointed to take the project forward. The next milestone in the project is to select the construction partner, who will bring AtkinsRéalis and Mott MacDonald’s designs to life.
The huge expansion is required to meet the growth in demand from the Royal Navy and to supply all the nuclear reactor plants that will power the new attack submarines as part of AUKUS - the recently announced tri-lateral agreement between Australia, the UK and US.
Rolls-Royce Submarines currently employs more than 4,000 people and designs, manufactures and provides in-service support to the pressurised water reactors that power every boat in the Royal Navy’s submarine fleet.
Specialist design partners - AtkinsRéalis and Mott MacDonald - have been appointed to take the project forward. The next milestone in the project is to select the construction partner, who will bring AtkinsRéalis and Mott MacDonald’s designs to life.
The huge expansion is required to meet the growth in demand from the Royal Navy and to supply all the nuclear reactor plants that will power the new attack submarines as part of AUKUS - the recently announced tri-lateral agreement between Australia, the UK and US.
Rolls-Royce Submarines currently employs more than 4,000 people and designs, manufactures and provides in-service support to the pressurised water reactors that power every boat in the Royal Navy’s submarine fleet.
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Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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From: Peripatetic
SSBN DREADNOUGHT shapes and details thanks to this model shown at the "Nuclear Week" industry event at the House of Commons.
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From: South Pole
The very large number of Australian personnel (both military & civilian) that have been sent to Hawaii for SSN training is putting a strain on the housing market in Honolulu. There has been a shortage of rental accommodation for a number of years and this influx has driven up demand and pricing - the locals aren’t happy.