AUKUS
Joined: Apr 2006
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From: Portsmouth
Trouble is all the heavy steel fab is by the old launch berths, some way away from DDH. Hence the road trip.....
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 883
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From: Australia
ADMR Chris Barrie was always a 'lefty'. You can ignore anything he says.
Ex-PM Trumbull was talking yesterday at the Press Club. Again, he was so hard done-by, shouldn't have AUKUS, should have gone with his French sub plan.
This involved taking a French nuke SSN, down-rating it to a unique orphan conventional SS, FFS. What could possibly go wrong!
Ex-PM Trumbull was talking yesterday at the Press Club. Again, he was so hard done-by, shouldn't have AUKUS, should have gone with his French sub plan.
This involved taking a French nuke SSN, down-rating it to a unique orphan conventional SS, FFS. What could possibly go wrong!
One of the things he is quoted as saying is:
"Let’s define why we really need nuclear submarines in the first instance...".
I am entirely unconvinced this had originally been done from a military perspective. It comes across much more as a Dutton, Morrison and a few merry men decision.
If you were concerned by Attack class being an orphan, then you wouldn't believe in Collins class either. You should also start worrying about the future UK SSN.
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Here 'n' there!
Is a bit quaint I give you but there you go. Moving stuff can have it's issues (Jul 2014 in Montana). If the bit of sub went "walkies" I suspect some new houses would be required!
In this case, it looks like at least 2 of these were well on their way to joining the Submarine Service thereby providing an extremely tenuous link to this Thread!!!
In this case, it looks like at least 2 of these were well on their way to joining the Submarine Service thereby providing an extremely tenuous link to this Thread!!!
Last edited by Hot 'n' High; 6th April 2025 at 07:15.
Joined: Sep 2023
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From: Montana
Moving stuff can have it's issues (Jul 2014 in Montana).
We golfers hate the Train Drivers because they time their extremely loud horns and hit the button purposely on our backswings or wen we are putting.
Lots of middle finger saluting in response.
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Golf? I'm with Mark Twain and Jeremy Clarkson on that: “Golf is a good walk spoiled.”.
On the subject of idiots with guns taking pot shots at aeroplanes, an ex-colleague of mine once bought an ex-Iraqi Hawker Fury ISS in the US around the time of GW1. It was dismantled prior to shipping, but when he went to inspect it, he found a large hole had been made in one of the wings, which matched a similar hole in the hangar wall. Some ignorant redneck had obviously taken offence to the "Goddam Eye-Raqui fighter" and had loosed off from his portable cannon....
On the subject of idiots with guns taking pot shots at aeroplanes, an ex-colleague of mine once bought an ex-Iraqi Hawker Fury ISS in the US around the time of GW1. It was dismantled prior to shipping, but when he went to inspect it, he found a large hole had been made in one of the wings, which matched a similar hole in the hangar wall. Some ignorant redneck had obviously taken offence to the "Goddam Eye-Raqui fighter" and had loosed off from his portable cannon....
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Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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From: Peripatetic
Reuters:
17th March: https://www.reuters.com/business/aer...us-2025-03-16/
US starts to build submarine presence on strategic Australian coast under AUKUS
10th April: https://www.reuters.com/world/aukus-...ia-2025-04-10/
Exclusive: AUKUS nuclear submarine sale under scrutiny as Trump tariffs rattle Australia
11th April: https://www.reuters.com/business/aer...se-2025-04-11/
Australia wants AUKUS submarines for deterrence, stealth, says PM Albanese
17th March: https://www.reuters.com/business/aer...us-2025-03-16/
US starts to build submarine presence on strategic Australian coast under AUKUS
10th April: https://www.reuters.com/world/aukus-...ia-2025-04-10/
Exclusive: AUKUS nuclear submarine sale under scrutiny as Trump tariffs rattle Australia
11th April: https://www.reuters.com/business/aer...se-2025-04-11/
Australia wants AUKUS submarines for deterrence, stealth, says PM Albanese
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From: Texas
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Great South East, tired and retired
If China is successful in shutting down UK's last blast furnace, the AUKUS subs are...well...sunk. We can't ship Oz steel to the US (tariffs) and we can't afford to buy theirs.
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Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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From: Peripatetic
If China is successful in shutting down UK's last blast furnace, the AUKUS subs are...well...sunk. We can't ship Oz steel to the US (tariffs) and we can't afford to buy theirs.
https://archive.ph/pK35s
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,618
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From: aus
Firstly miliary hardware and materials used in military hardware are tariff free
Goods that are re exported from the US you can claim back the tariffs you paid on the input products
Bisalloy will be suppling steel for the AUS subs, assuming they pass certification so no reason to believe they would be incapable of supplying the UK
Goods that are re exported from the US you can claim back the tariffs you paid on the input products
Bisalloy will be suppling steel for the AUS subs, assuming they pass certification so no reason to believe they would be incapable of supplying the UK
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 813
Likes: 429
From: Portsmouth
Firstly miliary hardware and materials used in military hardware are tariff free
Goods that are re exported from the US you can claim back the tariffs you paid on the input products
Bisalloy will be suppling steel for the AUS subs, assuming they pass certification so no reason to believe they would be incapable of supplying the UK
Goods that are re exported from the US you can claim back the tariffs you paid on the input products
Bisalloy will be suppling steel for the AUS subs, assuming they pass certification so no reason to believe they would be incapable of supplying the UK
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,980
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From: Hampshire
First eight RAN sailors have graduated from the USN Nuclear Power Traing Unit. Five further officers have also graduated following on from the two groups of three from the prototype courses and will now gain sea experience on SUBPAC Virginias.
https://news.usni.org/2025/04/22/fir...vy-nuke-school
The first enlisted Australian sailors that could eventually crew American and Australian nuclear attack submarines graduated from the U.S. Navy’s Nuclear Power Training Unit, the service announced.
Eight Royal Australian Navy sailors graduated from the six-month course on April 18 and are now qualified to handle the reactors and other associated systems on the nuclear attack boats that Canberra is set to receive under the 2021 Australia, United Kingdom and United States trilateral security agreement. The training, which began in the fall of 2024, included courses on mathematics, nuclear physics, reactor principles, and nuclear reactor technology.
“Having naval nuclear power-qualified officers, and now sailors, is critical in meeting our goal of operating conventionally armed, nuclear-powered submarines,” RAN Commodore Daniel Sutherland, commander RAN Submarine Force.
Eight Royal Australian Navy sailors graduated from the six-month course on April 18 and are now qualified to handle the reactors and other associated systems on the nuclear attack boats that Canberra is set to receive under the 2021 Australia, United Kingdom and United States trilateral security agreement. The training, which began in the fall of 2024, included courses on mathematics, nuclear physics, reactor principles, and nuclear reactor technology.
“Having naval nuclear power-qualified officers, and now sailors, is critical in meeting our goal of operating conventionally armed, nuclear-powered submarines,” RAN Commodore Daniel Sutherland, commander RAN Submarine Force.
Joined: May 2007
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From: South Glos
It’s not British steel in the Dreadnaught and I presume the same will be true for SSN-A. Australia will build most of their own apart from the reactor module anyway.
https://archive.ph/pK35s
https://archive.ph/pK35s
The French steel is mostly plate.
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Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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From: Peripatetic
Thread Starter
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Joined: Jul 2000
Aviation Qualifications: Spotter
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From: Peripatetic
With all major hull units of the future DREADNOUGHT SSBN already in the Devonshire Dock Hall being assembled, now sections of casing are also going in, coming from the Central Yard Facility.
The L section, to which these units belong, is in the stern area.
The L section, to which these units belong, is in the stern area.
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Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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From: Peripatetic
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2754029.html
Trump’s man in London backs Aukus partnership with UK and Australia
Donald Trump’s new ambassador to the UK has used his first public speech to back the Aukus partnership with Britain and Australia.
Warren Stephens highlighted how “vital the US-UK relationship is to our countries and to the world” at an event in Parliament attended by Sir Keir Starmer.
Mr Stephens said the Aukus partnership, which is developing a new fleet of nuclear-powered hunter-killer submarines for the UK and Australia, would help maintain a “free and open Indo-Pacific”.
The ambassador’s decision to make his first public address in support of the project is symbolically important, given it is a legacy of Joe Biden’s term in the White House.
The alliance, which also covers collaboration on other advanced technologies, is seen as an attempt to counter the influence of China in the region.
Mr Stephens said Aukus was based on “peace, security and prosperity”.
“Those three ideas lie at the heart of our partnership promoting peace by developing our technologies and deterring our adversaries, bolstering security by training and trading together to fend off threats from cyber attacks to submarines and boosting prosperity by maintaining a free and open Indo-Pacific, while creating jobs and investment from Brisbane to Barrow and to Newport News.”
He said Aukus was a “partnership built on trust, and the United States is proud to stand alongside Britain and Australia, two of our closest allies, as we deepen our collaboration to respond to a changing world”.
Mr Stephens also highlighted the economic opportunities from the project: “Government works best when we get out of the way and let our businesses innovate, compete and collaborate to improve people’s lives.
“President Trump and I know this to be true, as it has been repeatedly proven throughout history. That fact is built into the Aukus partnership, which sees great American, British and Australian companies innovating and investing to maintain our critical technological edge.”
The Prime Minister told the event in the House of Lords, organised by the all-party parliamentary group on Aukus, that “when we talk about security and stability, we mean it – in the Indo-Pacific and here at home”.
He said Aukus was already creating thousands of jobs in Barrow, where the submarines will be built and Derby, where Rolls-Royce produces the nuclear reactors to power the boats.
“This is transformational, an investment in our collective security and a reminder today, and every day of the service out there, of people who are risking their lives to keep us safe,” Sir Keir said.
Australia’s high commissioner Stephen Smith told the event: “What underpins economic growth is, of course, security and the Aukus trilateral partnership is, at its very heart, ensuring we continue to have peace and security, not just in the Indo-Pacific, but in the Euro-Atlantic as well.”
Trump’s man in London backs Aukus partnership with UK and Australia
Donald Trump’s new ambassador to the UK has used his first public speech to back the Aukus partnership with Britain and Australia.
Warren Stephens highlighted how “vital the US-UK relationship is to our countries and to the world” at an event in Parliament attended by Sir Keir Starmer.
Mr Stephens said the Aukus partnership, which is developing a new fleet of nuclear-powered hunter-killer submarines for the UK and Australia, would help maintain a “free and open Indo-Pacific”.
The ambassador’s decision to make his first public address in support of the project is symbolically important, given it is a legacy of Joe Biden’s term in the White House.
The alliance, which also covers collaboration on other advanced technologies, is seen as an attempt to counter the influence of China in the region.
Mr Stephens said Aukus was based on “peace, security and prosperity”.
“Those three ideas lie at the heart of our partnership promoting peace by developing our technologies and deterring our adversaries, bolstering security by training and trading together to fend off threats from cyber attacks to submarines and boosting prosperity by maintaining a free and open Indo-Pacific, while creating jobs and investment from Brisbane to Barrow and to Newport News.”
He said Aukus was a “partnership built on trust, and the United States is proud to stand alongside Britain and Australia, two of our closest allies, as we deepen our collaboration to respond to a changing world”.
Mr Stephens also highlighted the economic opportunities from the project: “Government works best when we get out of the way and let our businesses innovate, compete and collaborate to improve people’s lives.
“President Trump and I know this to be true, as it has been repeatedly proven throughout history. That fact is built into the Aukus partnership, which sees great American, British and Australian companies innovating and investing to maintain our critical technological edge.”
The Prime Minister told the event in the House of Lords, organised by the all-party parliamentary group on Aukus, that “when we talk about security and stability, we mean it – in the Indo-Pacific and here at home”.
He said Aukus was already creating thousands of jobs in Barrow, where the submarines will be built and Derby, where Rolls-Royce produces the nuclear reactors to power the boats.
“This is transformational, an investment in our collective security and a reminder today, and every day of the service out there, of people who are risking their lives to keep us safe,” Sir Keir said.
Australia’s high commissioner Stephen Smith told the event: “What underpins economic growth is, of course, security and the Aukus trilateral partnership is, at its very heart, ensuring we continue to have peace and security, not just in the Indo-Pacific, but in the Euro-Atlantic as well.”
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Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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From: Peripatetic
This, frankly, seems like political bollocks - making promises the government after next can’t keep.
The government says it wants to build a force of 12 SSN-A by the “late 2030s” to replace Astute.
SSN-A hasn’t been fully designed yet, though RR has been contracted to start building reactors for the UK and Australia and any increased production will be difficult. But let’s take it at face value and assume production will start in 2027 and, at best, construction (let alone trials and commissioning`) will take 5 years (the time the US aim to take to build a Virginia class).
The current hall is sized to build one Vanguard and 2 Astute at a time.
Assume a roll out of the first SSN-A in 2032. With another SSN-A sub rolling off the line each 18 months they have to start another every 18 months. That means by the time the first nears completion, they will need to have 4 to 5 SSN plus a Dreadnaught under construction by 2032.
Where are they supposed to build them? Does anyone think they can recruit and train the type of experienced welders and engineers in that timescale?
Note also the present Astute/Dreadnaught production facilities and rate are designed to allow the current design and production force to remain stable for decades as replacements are build to prevent a recurrence of the problems between the design and construction of Trafalgar/Vangaurd and Astute/Dreadnaught.
Is this in any way feasible?
https://www.deeside.com/uk-outlines-...asing-threats/
UK outlines plans to build 12 new nuclear submarines in response to ”rapidly increasing threats”
…”The government says the industrial base will be expanded to deliver one new submarine every 18 months.”……
https://archive.ph/t8OWp
Britain to build a dozen nuclear submarines as forces arm for war
“A submarine will be built every 18 months, replacing all seven Astute class submarines by the late-2030s, the Ministry of Defence said.
The announcement will also trigger a major expansion of industrial capability at Barrow-in-Furness, Cumbria, and Ranesway in Derby. The MoD said it was working with the defence industry to ensure there was a rapid expansion in training and development opportunities.
The government’s target is to double the intake for its nuclear programmes, civil and defence, to 30,000 apprenticeships and 14,000 graduate roles over the next ten years.”……
The government says it wants to build a force of 12 SSN-A by the “late 2030s” to replace Astute.
SSN-A hasn’t been fully designed yet, though RR has been contracted to start building reactors for the UK and Australia and any increased production will be difficult. But let’s take it at face value and assume production will start in 2027 and, at best, construction (let alone trials and commissioning`) will take 5 years (the time the US aim to take to build a Virginia class).
The current hall is sized to build one Vanguard and 2 Astute at a time.
Assume a roll out of the first SSN-A in 2032. With another SSN-A sub rolling off the line each 18 months they have to start another every 18 months. That means by the time the first nears completion, they will need to have 4 to 5 SSN plus a Dreadnaught under construction by 2032.
Where are they supposed to build them? Does anyone think they can recruit and train the type of experienced welders and engineers in that timescale?
Note also the present Astute/Dreadnaught production facilities and rate are designed to allow the current design and production force to remain stable for decades as replacements are build to prevent a recurrence of the problems between the design and construction of Trafalgar/Vangaurd and Astute/Dreadnaught.
Is this in any way feasible?
https://www.deeside.com/uk-outlines-...asing-threats/
UK outlines plans to build 12 new nuclear submarines in response to ”rapidly increasing threats”
…”The government says the industrial base will be expanded to deliver one new submarine every 18 months.”……
https://archive.ph/t8OWp
Britain to build a dozen nuclear submarines as forces arm for war
“A submarine will be built every 18 months, replacing all seven Astute class submarines by the late-2030s, the Ministry of Defence said.
The announcement will also trigger a major expansion of industrial capability at Barrow-in-Furness, Cumbria, and Ranesway in Derby. The MoD said it was working with the defence industry to ensure there was a rapid expansion in training and development opportunities.
The government’s target is to double the intake for its nuclear programmes, civil and defence, to 30,000 apprenticeships and 14,000 graduate roles over the next ten years.”……
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Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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From: Peripatetic
A glimpse of where this insanity came from this morning when a junior MOD minister, Luke Pollard, was interviewed on the radio and stated that the hope was to reduce SSN production time from 3 years to 18 months…… 
Ignoring the problems of designing a new type and ramping up production (the US is spending tens of billions to try and get Virginia production up from 1.3 to a planned 2 a year), the figures just don’t reflect reality.
Of the 6 Astute class produced so far the times from the first section being laid down till being launched were 6, 8, 9, 6, 10 and 11 years. Sea trials and commissioning added on average another 18 months. The last in the class was laid down in 2018 and has yet to be launched.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astute...s_in_the_class
Ignoring the problems of designing a new type and ramping up production (the US is spending tens of billions to try and get Virginia production up from 1.3 to a planned 2 a year), the figures just don’t reflect reality.
Of the 6 Astute class produced so far the times from the first section being laid down till being launched were 6, 8, 9, 6, 10 and 11 years. Sea trials and commissioning added on average another 18 months. The last in the class was laid down in 2018 and has yet to be launched.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astute...s_in_the_class