Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Red White and Blue Voyager

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Red White and Blue Voyager

Old 26th Jun 2020, 13:32
  #361 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Brum
Posts: 840
Originally Posted by Strumble Head View Post
I agree that the 32 Sqn scheme is much, much more stylish. The new 'Bozza Bus' scheme seems to be an unholy union of a t*rt's boudoir and an ice cream van, IMHO. But then I have hated the 'slanty' styling of the current 'R' in Royal Air Force since its introduction. Each to their own, I suppose.
I feel sorry for the crews who will have to operate this visual horror - presumably they will emplane and deplane under cover of either night or a jacket over the head?
Possibly one ofthe most boring schemes ever applied to a flying machine...
Had the A330 been painted like this, there'd be screams of 'is that it'...
Nige321 is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2020, 13:39
  #362 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 13,480
Part of that cost likely stems from the fact that the Voyagers are not owned by the RAF, but operated on their behalf by the Airtanker consortium—a joint venture of Airbus, Cobham, Rolls-Royce and Thales—and the livery is a bespoke scheme. According to the UK defense ministry, the work was contracted directly with Airtanker through its Private Finance Initiative contract and had to account for the aircraft’s certification, regulatory and licensing requirements. A competitive tender was issued for the repainting work.
What a disingenuous response. I'd be fascinated to know what "certification, regulatory and licensing requirements" are affected by painting an aircraft a different colour.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2020, 14:13
  #363 (permalink)  
MG
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 547
Maybe there were trials required to ensure the efficacy of the DIRCM once painted in the ‘brighter’ scheme? Even if those trials done by were computer modelling, they would have added to the cost.
MG is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2020, 14:14
  #364 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 403
The "turn" reminds me of Flybe Q400s at the former RAF Eastleigh/HMS Raven - which by the way is a compliment.

Well I can live with it, not that I had a choice. As with all such "fashionable" designs it will tire quickly. Has the cropping and tilting of the Union Flag actually meant its got two St Patrick's, One St Andrew's and no St George's crosses?

Is the cost because they have they bought enough paint to give as a trade deal sweetner present to the Orange One for his VC-25Bs?

Shame they haven't painted the FRU basket in union flag colours.

I trust there is nothing vital behind the "targets".
SLXOwft is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2020, 15:05
  #365 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 454
SLX-last time I looked 336 didn't have a FRU (it is fitted for but not with) in fact given its role I doubt it ever will have.
vascodegama is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2020, 15:25
  #366 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Brum
Posts: 840
Rumour has it there's an air-to-air photo shoot going on this afternoon...
Nige321 is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2020, 15:52
  #367 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 403
Vascodegama - Thanks, I did wonder. It always seemed odd to me they converted a KC3 not a KC2 (hence my earlier question).

Never seen one close up and, from the (less detailed) photos I have seen of ones trailing the FRU basket, I thought it might one of these bits



however on closer examination I see I'm wrong.
SLXOwft is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2020, 15:54
  #368 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 77
Posts: 6,594
OMG ... politics again? Give it a rest!! 😩 👎

At least this thread has given us something RAF-related to talk about during lockdown.
MPN11 is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2020, 16:12
  #369 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 535
Originally Posted by MPN11 View Post
OMG ... politics again? Give it a rest!! 😩 👎

At least this thread has given us something RAF-related to talk about during lockdown.
Back on topic. Overall the job is a good'un. I would have liked to see the lightning strike instead of the swoosh down both sides and dark blue for the United Kingdom. Minor quibbles and as is the aircraft does the job. Sadly Her Maj may never get to fly in it given her age but I look forward to seeing the rest of the family turning up on foreign trips in this aircraft. I think the PM will continue to find that unless he books well in advance, the aircraft will continue to be used mainly by FO delegations and trade trips.
asdf1234 is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2020, 16:27
  #370 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 154
Something different from plain grey is okay for a state aircraft. But the UK had been better at designing liveries before.
That ugly "wave" is just yesterday's outdated fashion. The style should be more symbolizing the dignity of an empire and less showcase simplified, advertisement style "britishness". It's like a copy gone bad of what the French did.

Last edited by Less Hair; 26th Jun 2020 at 16:40.
Less Hair is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2020, 16:35
  #371 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 205
Originally Posted by PAXboy View Post
I accept that we left the EU as we entered the EEC but that does not make it a great result for democracy. If the parties responsible (on both sides) could have been held to account for their lies - then we might be getting somewhere. But changing the constitution (even without a super majority) based on lies is not very clever. The fact that many of the men behind those are lies are now in govt is not good news. We still have the question, how did a law of parliament for an ADVISORY referendum - get switched into COMPULSORY? Please publish where that legally took place and was voted on by the MPS of the day. Let's just wait and see who the Tories offer up when they dump Boris.
This is the wrong place to whinge about BREXIT and the General Election result. It will make zero difference and your impotent anger will just make you unhappy.

I think Nige321 is correct about a photo-shoot. The aircraft in question was in close company with a Hawk, a Typhoon and a Lightning earlier today. Should see some nice PR photos, with a by-product of showing to the uneducated that being painted a different colour doesn’t mean it cant be used as a tanker as well.

The formation lights mentioned earlier in the thread are seen switched on in this photo. Note that there is a vertical row on the fin as well.


Video Mixdown is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2020, 16:35
  #372 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: under the sea
Posts: 2,583
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
What a disingenuous response. I'd be fascinated to know what "certification, regulatory and licensing requirements" are affected by painting an aircraft a different colour.
Airbus wouldn’t let BA paint the upper surfaces of a A319 red when the aircraft was put in a retro BEA scheme last year.
tubby linton is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2020, 17:00
  #373 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 77
Posts: 6,594
Originally Posted by tubby linton View Post
Airbus wouldn’t let BA paint the upper surfaces of a A319 red when the aircraft was put in a retro BEA scheme last year.
Heat sink, I assume?
MPN11 is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2020, 17:54
  #374 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 13,480
Originally Posted by tubby linton View Post
Airbus wouldn’t let BA paint the upper surfaces of a A319 red when the aircraft was put in a retro BEA scheme last year.
That's correct. So how much of the £900,000 did it cost the taxpayer in order for somebody to remember to observe that constraint with the Voyager ?

Originally Posted by MPN11 View Post
Heat sink, I assume?
Yes, or more accurately reflectivity considerations.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2020, 18:36
  #375 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Hoofddorp The Netherlands
Age: 67
Posts: 135
In words of one syllable: CRAP,the colour scheme .that is.
spitfirek5054 is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2020, 18:37
  #376 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: The sunny South
Posts: 814
Resulting photo, presumably taken from the Hawk.

https://www.forces.net/news/union-fl...ational-duties

FODPlod is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2020, 19:32
  #377 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: under the sea
Posts: 2,583
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
That's correct. So how much of the £900,000 did it cost the taxpayer in order for somebody to remember to observe that constraint with the Voyager ?



Yes, or more accurately reflectivity considerations.
Dave Reid is talking rubbish again.
Perhaps he would like to back it up with the manufacturers guidance.
tubby linton is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2020, 19:52
  #378 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 13,480
Originally Posted by tubby linton View Post
Dave Reid is talking rubbish again.
Perhaps he would like to back it up with the manufacturers guidance.
I don't think I have anything to learn from you about painting airliners, Tubby (including a handful for the RAF, as it happens, though I recall we didn't make a particularly good job of the first one ).
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2020, 20:10
  #379 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: -
Posts: 508
Originally Posted by tubby linton View Post
Airbus wouldn’t let BA paint the upper surfaces of a A319 red when the aircraft was put in a retro BEA scheme last year.
Curious...




rab-k is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2020, 20:16
  #380 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 356
It really matters not - I suggest that it would be impossible to create a paint-job that appealed to all. Or, even a majority.

We now know what it is - and we could all have tweaked it to suit our own tastes.

But that is what it is, so why not accept that it is better than a grey machine on the international stage.

Perhaps, even, support it as a way of portraying the UK around the world for those who merit its use for VIP travel - whilst also fulfilling its important role as a tanker.

It could always be painted again in different colours if it is really wrong - but at least it has provided a brief change from the dreary CoVid-19 daily news coverage.

I say - great - different - shows it is a UK machine - let's enjoy it and criticise - if we have to - other things/people, and stop criticising ourselves.
ex-fast-jets is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.