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AFPS15 - government decision.

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AFPS15 - government decision.

Old 5th Jun 2022, 21:31
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Any update on this?
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Old 7th Jun 2022, 16:16
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Originally Posted by Common_Sense
Any update on this?
its been placed on the back burner until later in the year, more pressing issues like new rank tabs for aviator engineering specialist recruits!
I can see a sense of humour snap at some point and further legal action, probably by the judges, to win compensation for the uncompensated.
It would be a sad fact to know, but how many have died whilst waiting for this to be sorted?

Last edited by popeye107; 7th Jun 2022 at 17:21.
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Old 7th Jun 2022, 16:24
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As I have pointed out previously, they have built in a date of October 2023 before they need to do anything else. They will not do anything before that date - delivering early? it's just not how they operate.
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Old 7th Jun 2022, 17:22
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Originally Posted by gipsymagpie
As I have pointed out previously, they have built in a date of October 2023 before they need to do anything else. They will not do anything before that date - delivering early? it's just not how they operate.
Can you confirm they do actually deliver on time, anytime?🤔😂😂😂
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Old 7th Jun 2022, 17:47
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Originally Posted by gipsymagpie
As I have pointed out previously, they have built in a date of October 2023 before they need to do anything else. They will not do anything before that date - delivering early? it's just not how they operate.
One would like to hope the calculator is released before then!
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Old 7th Jun 2022, 21:38
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Originally Posted by popeye107
aviator engineering specialist recruits!
Are you sure it is not Aviation Recruit, Specialist Engineer?
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Old 13th Oct 2022, 13:17
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The Endless Remedy

A lot of replies on LinkedIn to the latest AFPS 15 Remedy (McCloud) Sitrep from the Forces Pension Society. Perhaps like other retired members, I thought the choice would finally be arriving next year, but it's actually receiving a letter in the 18 months starting 1 Oct 23. So the way this has gone to date, I'm expecting the first letter 31 Mar 25 - and then what is the timeline to actually make a choice and for this to be implemented? How do we know this will also not slip to the right, as elements of the remedy have so far?

Is there anybody here who can explain the legal side of this? This was fallout from the 2008 economic crash, with AFPS 15 being announced a few years later. It was clearly illegal at the time for some personnel to stay on AFPS 75 and others to be forced out of the scheme. My question is, this has been found to be illegal initially in court and then at appeal. But is there any legal body overseeing the timeline of the remedy? It's around a decade since AFPS 15 was announced and the proven illegality is still not rectified. Who or what is to stop letters being sent out in the year 2050?

Not just a vent, I'm genuinely interested to know which legal body sanctions waiting for this period of time - when some scheme members are not going to make it to the finish line.

Last edited by Chauderon; 14th Oct 2022 at 15:30. Reason: Human Factors *genuinely not generally
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Old 14th Oct 2022, 08:01
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"I'm generally interested to know which legal body sanctions waiting for this period of time"

Parliament or the Sec State - if they don't write a timescale into the law or the rules and regs you are stuffed
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Old 14th Oct 2022, 11:37
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
"I'm generally interested to know which legal body sanctions waiting for this period of time"

Parliament or the Sec State - if they don't write a timescale into the law or the rules and regs you are stuffed
Do you know anything about the pensions case?
Whilst you may be correct about timescales, do you know if there was a timescale? Do you know who the ‘top cover’ the military has in this case?
If you do know could you let the rest of us know?
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Old 14th Oct 2022, 19:17
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A lot of people could really use the money that MOD illegally took from them back in 2015 - especially now.

I fear the only way to get them to pay up is a combined legal action of sort. How exactly that could be done would be a good question to answer from any lawyers in the house...
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Old 14th Oct 2022, 20:11
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Originally Posted by Low average
A lot of people could really use the money that MOD illegally took from them back in 2015 - especially now.

I fear the only way to get them to pay up is a combined legal action of sort. How exactly that could be done would be a good question to answer from any lawyers in the house...
Exactly, for some years now I've thought "this time next year we'll be millionaires..."; okay not quite Del Boy... but that this would be completed and my family would receive the circa £10K lump plus monthly boost I calculate AFPS 75 would have provided. With current inflation thanks to the same Government that illegally altered the pension scheme in the first place, the restitution is becoming increasingly worthless.

PS thank you for giving service to your country

Last edited by Chauderon; 14th Oct 2022 at 20:12. Reason: Add sarcasm
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Old 15th Oct 2022, 04:49
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Getting ahead of the game.

May I please draw your attention to my post #258 from April 2022?

My idea to provide a human to produce a bespoke calculation for every individual could not only be cheaper but also significantly quicker. If my idea were taken up then every individual could have their forecast ready to go well before October 2023. That way, as soon as the legislation is sorted, the MOD could ask everyone the question and have an answer immediately. Or would I be right in thinking there is no rush for them to dish out extra money to their employees both current and past? So much for ‘people are our most important asset’.

I am now a veteran and for me it is a case of a non PAS AFPS 75 pension plus 7 years of AFPS 15 or a level 26 PAS pension plus 5 months of AFPS 15. Those are two very different kettles of fish and I am very interested to find out if my ‘fag-packet maths’ is correct.

BV
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Old 15th Oct 2022, 10:07
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Originally Posted by Low average
A lot of people could really use the money that MOD illegally took from them back in 2015 - especially now.

I fear the only way to get them to pay up is a combined legal action of sort. How exactly that could be done would be a good question to answer from any lawyers in the house...
Whilst the Armed Forces are just fodder to this government, the Judges are not. If this whole debacle gets churned up I can see them protesting with a much louder voice than the Armed Forces and Fire Brigade unions.
Apart from getting my pension earlier, aged 65 vice 67, I don’t know if I’ll actually be any better off as I was top whack for my rank after 30 years on 05 and same for 5 years on 15. I will jump to solely 05.
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Old 15th Oct 2022, 14:36
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I had a chance conversation in the summer with someone from DWP who was working on the McLoud fallout. Apparently they have only identified a handful of people who would be better off on the legacy schemes, though I would still want to know what the calculation was if it was my pension at stake. The complication for implementation is that the individual schemes within the public sector have to be written separately into law, which means the legislation has to be consistent across the schemes and not inadvertently disadvantage anyone.

As for 'top cover', the VSOs have very little say in what happens and can only try to influence the debate. There are people on CDP's team who are directly engaged but, again, they have no executive authority as that all rests with DWP and by extension the Treasury. The (relatively) good news is that the jam today vs jam tomorrow question - the combination of schemes you end up with - has been cast to ensure you get the most amount of jam and that the flexibility on timing of decisions means that you should not lose out in the long run. That said, I don't think there will be compensation for those whose pension income was limited under option A compared with the final option B, and whose quality of life was affected in some way by a reduction in disposable income. The bean-counter argument there will be that the way you use your disposable income is a personal choice.
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Old 15th Oct 2022, 17:52
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To counter that bean-counter argument as to how you spend your money, I would say it only applies to Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and kind. For the rest of us, not having had access to possibly tens of thousands of pounds for a decade could mean someone renting instead of buying a house, leasing instead of buying a car, children not being supported to university, medical procedures not being completed, etc. The money that people thought they were going to receive as part of their pension would have been for many of us - important for living, and continues to be so as Low average said above. Both the initial AFPS change and the endless remedy are a sad indictment of the treatment of those who have served.
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Old 15th Oct 2022, 18:25
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Did we ever get a definitive statement as to interest payments on this money? Highly pertinent now as inflation death spirals away.
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Old 11th Jan 2023, 09:42
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McCloud Remedy Interest Request

This seems to have snuck under the radar - the Treasury have written to the Govt Actuary for formal advice on interest rates. Of note is footnote 2:

The remedy will come into force for the majority of members on 1 October 2023, unless HM Treasury decides to bring it into force earlier for some members, in accordance with section 131(2) of the Act. However, in relation to those schemes subject to Chapter 1 of Part 1 of the Act (‘Chapter 1 schemes’), each member will be informed of their rights in relation to the remedy through their Remediable Service Statement (RSS) which will normally be issued within 18 months of that date. This is expected to be at some point in 2023-2025. HM Treasury consider that, from the date 28 days after their RSS has been issued, it is appropriate for the 8% simple rate to cease since the member will have had their position remedied in law and will have been informed of their rights.

Essentially, expect a solution sometime in 2023-2025 on an individual basis, and you will hopefully get 8% interest against all money owed for the majority of the time.

<Edit to add> also a key point is that it appears to be simple interest instead of compound interest.

Last edited by PPRuNeUser0211; 11th Jan 2023 at 10:04.
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Old 11th Jan 2023, 18:23
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Good spot. That's effectively a lot of money in an 8% savings account right now (albeit simple interest). Hopefully that spurs some action.
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Old 24th Mar 2023, 13:31
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How do we expect the tax situation to work if the service leaver suddenly receives money (pension) above their current income from their new employment? Surely it won’t be taxed at the 2023 months income tax rates as additional income?
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Old 24th Mar 2023, 13:42
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Oh Dear! HMRC will see that as an additional income and tax it accordingly. I suppose it's a situation of cake and eat it, that is salary and pension.
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