Veterans planning to leave Scotland in the event of a yes vote?
What have English, Welsh and Canadians got to do with this? It's a Scottish issue. Let them make their decision, and then live with it. No-one else's business but theirs.
Similarly its not something thats going to be just decided by "the Scots" (this has already been covered). Only those resident and registered to vote in Scotland (including thousands of English, Welsh and Northern Irish) will be able to vote. On the other hand Scots living outside of Scotland wont have a say. This may come as a surprise to US citizens, who can vote postally wherever in the world they may currently reside, but that's the way Wee Eck wanted it, so that's the way it's going to be!
Such a divisive issue. Understandably, the subject drifts from the OP's idea to the usual highly charged arguments. And why not? As long as we can all let it go when the time is right.
Anyway, now that Perthsaint is on holiday, I would like to restate my answer to the original post:
Not knowing quite how the political promises from either side will come true and given that YES is quite likely, I need to safeguard my income. A significant part of that is my RAF pension. Currently it is paid into our long-standing Scottish bank account. The nice people there were unable to say that my income would be safe going through them, which was very honest.
Would I feel safe with my pension going from the UK to Scotland (with no idea what the currency might be or the exchange rate or transfer fees) and then to France (same again). Well, honestly, what would you do?
To look after my family, I see no option than to move my money out of Scotland.
Anyway, now that Perthsaint is on holiday, I would like to restate my answer to the original post:
Not knowing quite how the political promises from either side will come true and given that YES is quite likely, I need to safeguard my income. A significant part of that is my RAF pension. Currently it is paid into our long-standing Scottish bank account. The nice people there were unable to say that my income would be safe going through them, which was very honest.
Would I feel safe with my pension going from the UK to Scotland (with no idea what the currency might be or the exchange rate or transfer fees) and then to France (same again). Well, honestly, what would you do?
To look after my family, I see no option than to move my money out of Scotland.
Mel, it seems to bring out the worst in people. Hardly surprising. It's a big issue with way too many uncertainties. And it's uncertainty that makes me want to play safe. I would irresponsible to do anything else.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Mel - I've followed the reasoned and well considered posts on here until I'm up to the nostrils.
I'm ex-RAF and Yorkshire, and I know what it is like to struggle on a low pension. So I could use a bit of slack...on the other hand...
In my book - Independence is Independence...this means that one is purposely "not-dependent", or a "dependant". Being dependent to some degree is not "Independence".
One is either one or the other.
Now - on another note, if the funding of my pension was irrevocably bound into some relatively obscure "post independence" financial strategy I would be seriously worried about my future health and wellbeing.
Therefore I pose a question, if Scotland, as a nation, needed to take out some income protection insurance to cover post-independence risks, what would their terms and premiums look like, or would they be refused?
Considering the level of risk as I see it - I would be declining to quote.
Imagegear
I'm ex-RAF and Yorkshire, and I know what it is like to struggle on a low pension. So I could use a bit of slack...on the other hand...
In my book - Independence is Independence...this means that one is purposely "not-dependent", or a "dependant". Being dependent to some degree is not "Independence".
One is either one or the other.
Now - on another note, if the funding of my pension was irrevocably bound into some relatively obscure "post independence" financial strategy I would be seriously worried about my future health and wellbeing.
Therefore I pose a question, if Scotland, as a nation, needed to take out some income protection insurance to cover post-independence risks, what would their terms and premiums look like, or would they be refused?
Considering the level of risk as I see it - I would be declining to quote.
Imagegear
Last edited by ImageGear; 7th Sep 2014 at 18:33.
Ok Image Gear, fair enough. I get that it's an emotive issue and that people are worried about the effects on their livelihoods and pensions. I guess we're in for a very interesting few weeks (and beyond depending on how things pan out in the vote).
Best
Best
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Tennessee - Smoky Mountains
Age: 55
Posts: 1,602
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Yes, OK, fair points.
California is welcome to (re-)join Mexico as far as I am concerned. Very strange people over there.
But yes, I get the point about the Labour party being in Scheiße Straße if they go. And also that had this issue been on the table at the last election, there might be a different make-up of Parliament (Westminster).
I still feel though that if they want to do their own thing, there's not much to be done about it. You can't on the one hand say to Argentina that the Falklanders want to remain British and as long as that holds true they will be, whilst not doing the same thing with the Scots (albeit they are voting on NOT being British).
I suppose it is a game of damage limitation in Westminster. I think UK will have the last laugh though, if they go. Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it, as they say.
California is welcome to (re-)join Mexico as far as I am concerned. Very strange people over there.
But yes, I get the point about the Labour party being in Scheiße Straße if they go. And also that had this issue been on the table at the last election, there might be a different make-up of Parliament (Westminster).
I still feel though that if they want to do their own thing, there's not much to be done about it. You can't on the one hand say to Argentina that the Falklanders want to remain British and as long as that holds true they will be, whilst not doing the same thing with the Scots (albeit they are voting on NOT being British).
I suppose it is a game of damage limitation in Westminster. I think UK will have the last laugh though, if they go. Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it, as they say.
I do agree with you Roadster that the vote is for the people of Scotland, regardless of who else in the UK it affects.
The UK is set to have a vote on whether to stay in the EU or not, and you can imagine the reaction if it became known that the vote was to be extended to the entire EU (it would, after all, affect them also). Just imagine the situation if the UK voted to leave, but Germany, France, etc, said no, and we had to stay (doesn't sound too democratic).
The UK is set to have a vote on whether to stay in the EU or not, and you can imagine the reaction if it became known that the vote was to be extended to the entire EU (it would, after all, affect them also). Just imagine the situation if the UK voted to leave, but Germany, France, etc, said no, and we had to stay (doesn't sound too democratic).
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: @exRAF_Al
Posts: 3,297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The so called EU 'Brexit' scenario is already being planned. It isn't just the Scotland vote that causes financial institutions concerns - if anything, that potential impact is quite limited in comparison. This ft link should be a free preview peek.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/57b39eda-2...#axzz3CeUrioZa
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/57b39eda-2...#axzz3CeUrioZa
Good point, well made, Mel.
And you raise the next issue for us in France. We could end up being able to fly to Scotland as part of the EU, but not to the UK. Well, not without a visa or something. And then we could have Marine Le Pen's government, who won't want us either. Bugger.
And you raise the next issue for us in France. We could end up being able to fly to Scotland as part of the EU, but not to the UK. Well, not without a visa or something. And then we could have Marine Le Pen's government, who won't want us either. Bugger.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Racedo blows goats
Posts: 677
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would have thought that if the CU argument is out of the way and asset division is agreed, then the Scottish Government should fund the military pensions for Scottish passport holders from their defence budget as the UK does.
In the recent Quebec Provincial Elections, there was outspoken support by the Parti Quebecois for another Independence Referendum. Most opinion polls across Canada, unlike previous years, showed an almost complete fatigue over the Independence issue, perhaps summarised as "So what, we're tired of it, let them leave if they want; we don't care any more".
The PQ was dumped out of power after 1 term (very rare in Canada), got their lowest vote since inception, and the Leader lost her seat.
One wonders how many Scots would vote to leave if the rUK attitude was "Byeee!", as opposed to the last minute concessions and near panic we seem to be getting.
The PQ was dumped out of power after 1 term (very rare in Canada), got their lowest vote since inception, and the Leader lost her seat.
One wonders how many Scots would vote to leave if the rUK attitude was "Byeee!", as opposed to the last minute concessions and near panic we seem to be getting.
Last edited by Fox3WheresMyBanana; 7th Sep 2014 at 19:52.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,573
Received 422 Likes
on
222 Posts
This may come as a surprise to US citizens, who can vote postally wherever in the world they may currently reside, but that's the way Wee Eck wanted it, so that's the way it's going to be!
Watch out the Scots, double taxation, as per the USA, may be deemed necessary!
Seems to me that the Scottish Separatist movement is being orchestrated by someone with a personal grudge against England and therefore a personal agenda. I have seen no evidence of a post separatist strategy to finance Scotland. Many repetitive, stonewalling answers from the sour-faced Salmond, but no sign of a policy and no business plan. If there is one, he has perhaps deliberately kept the less than palatable detail out of the equation.
The voters should take into consideration that this will truly be an occasion when the phrase "you deserve what you voted for" is very, very, appropriate.
Then watch out for the asylum seekers / economic migrants come clambering over the newly rebuilt Hadrian's Wall in years to come......
ShyTorque
that is not strictly true... there is a joint taxation agreement between the US and the UK. You don't get taxed twice and frankly it can be quite beneficial if you are paying tax in the US. I get credit for paying tax in the UK and the US with both authorities. I get a nice cheque from uncle sam most years based on the tax I still pay in the US even though now UK resident. For example I can use my wife's tax allowance as we file jointly and my offspring are tax deductible. It either feels unfair at times or very generous and I am sure it is just there to keep accountants out of trouble
You can relinquish your us citizen ship but it is difficult. My daughter for example is a us citizen and has had to start filing tax returns at 16 to maintain her obligations and enjoy the benefits of both worlds.
Regarding Scotland, I would imagine it would be a no brainer to have the same arrangement with the UK and as above the individual both exchequers will manage it.
Regarding the EU and scotland, I can't seeing this being as easy as Salmond makes out. There are so many independence issues in the EU that I am sure it will set the wrong precedent. i.e. Basques and Spain, Danzig etc and not forgetting if the desire for Turkey to join is still there the Kurds. Not forgetting the mess that is eastern europe who have their own issues.
The only good news is the lothian question is sorted out once and for all and english MPs can decide what happens in england. It also makes it harder for idiots like Miliband to get in and it might bring back some conviction politics back.........
Frankly I don't think this has at all been well thought through and if the scots do go there own way... be careful for what you wish for.
that is not strictly true... there is a joint taxation agreement between the US and the UK. You don't get taxed twice and frankly it can be quite beneficial if you are paying tax in the US. I get credit for paying tax in the UK and the US with both authorities. I get a nice cheque from uncle sam most years based on the tax I still pay in the US even though now UK resident. For example I can use my wife's tax allowance as we file jointly and my offspring are tax deductible. It either feels unfair at times or very generous and I am sure it is just there to keep accountants out of trouble
You can relinquish your us citizen ship but it is difficult. My daughter for example is a us citizen and has had to start filing tax returns at 16 to maintain her obligations and enjoy the benefits of both worlds.
Regarding Scotland, I would imagine it would be a no brainer to have the same arrangement with the UK and as above the individual both exchequers will manage it.
Regarding the EU and scotland, I can't seeing this being as easy as Salmond makes out. There are so many independence issues in the EU that I am sure it will set the wrong precedent. i.e. Basques and Spain, Danzig etc and not forgetting if the desire for Turkey to join is still there the Kurds. Not forgetting the mess that is eastern europe who have their own issues.
The only good news is the lothian question is sorted out once and for all and english MPs can decide what happens in england. It also makes it harder for idiots like Miliband to get in and it might bring back some conviction politics back.........
Frankly I don't think this has at all been well thought through and if the scots do go there own way... be careful for what you wish for.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,573
Received 422 Likes
on
222 Posts
Dagenham, the problem is, like everything behind the "Yes" vote, nothing about taxation has been even discussed in such detail, let alone cast in stone.
Scotland may find itself in difficult financial conditions for a whole host of reasons and once the plug has been pulled, no-one knows what will happen.
If Scotland really thinks that the present position can be no worse than under the present arrangement, then I say let it find out.
But I don't want the rest of UK being put in the situation where it has to "do a Merkel" and bail them out of debt when / if Scotland finds it's all going down the pan.
Scotland may find itself in difficult financial conditions for a whole host of reasons and once the plug has been pulled, no-one knows what will happen.
If Scotland really thinks that the present position can be no worse than under the present arrangement, then I say let it find out.
But I don't want the rest of UK being put in the situation where it has to "do a Merkel" and bail them out of debt when / if Scotland finds it's all going down the pan.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: London
Posts: 2,916
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ShyTorque
Someone? Personal grudge? Personal agenda?
The Scottish National Party has been in existence for more than 80 years, has consistently campaigned for Scottish independence and is the largest political party in Scotland in terms of membership. The primary reason it has taken so long to get to this point is that, for decades, it was impossible to break the Labour strongholds in Scotland. There was once a suggestion that money could be saved by weighing votes in Scotland instead of the pointless exercise of counting them.
The SNP has been continuously represented at Westminster since Winnie Ewing was elected as MP for Hamilton in 1967. She became only the second nationalist MP, joining the late Gwynfor Evans who had been elected as the first Plaid Cymru (National party of Wales) MP the previous year.
As a teenager I was proud to be one of a group who carried the truly great man shoulder high following the declaration that he had won with 16,179 votes – a number indelibly etched in my memory. I still treasure that moment, almost half a century later.
The movement for independence has always been stronger in Scotland. Although Plaid Cymru is still an active political party, Wales clearly has no desire to be independent; the Welsh are patriotic but not nationalist.
Perhaps because Wales was conquered 171 years before Scotland so the Welsh have had longer to get used to it.
FL
Seems to me that the Scottish Separatist movement is being orchestrated by someone with a personal grudge against England and therefore a personal agenda.
The Scottish National Party has been in existence for more than 80 years, has consistently campaigned for Scottish independence and is the largest political party in Scotland in terms of membership. The primary reason it has taken so long to get to this point is that, for decades, it was impossible to break the Labour strongholds in Scotland. There was once a suggestion that money could be saved by weighing votes in Scotland instead of the pointless exercise of counting them.
The SNP has been continuously represented at Westminster since Winnie Ewing was elected as MP for Hamilton in 1967. She became only the second nationalist MP, joining the late Gwynfor Evans who had been elected as the first Plaid Cymru (National party of Wales) MP the previous year.
As a teenager I was proud to be one of a group who carried the truly great man shoulder high following the declaration that he had won with 16,179 votes – a number indelibly etched in my memory. I still treasure that moment, almost half a century later.
The movement for independence has always been stronger in Scotland. Although Plaid Cymru is still an active political party, Wales clearly has no desire to be independent; the Welsh are patriotic but not nationalist.
Perhaps because Wales was conquered 171 years before Scotland so the Welsh have had longer to get used to it.
FL
Last edited by Flying Lawyer; 7th Sep 2014 at 21:43.
The trouble is that the great Scottish unwashed have turned their backs on Labour and are now listening to Wee-Eck instead. My brother in law, a proud Scot, has already transferred all his financial assets out of Scotland - he has 7 figures+ to ship out and all his local business mates have done this as well. He has a plan to sell his 4 businesses for next-to-nothing just to get out of Dodge and has sold 2 of his 3 properties in Scotland already. He fears that if 'yes' don't win this time, then they will keep chipping away at it until they do.
So what is going to be left in Scotland if it goes to 'yes' - lots of these...
The rest of the UK's GDP will instantly rise by ~£120 per head, Scotland's finances will collapse (a great opportunity for the Rest of the UK to invest!), the people of Orkney & Shetland will seek 'self determination' as part of the Rest of the UK (they are staunch 'no' voters) and it will set it up like the Isle of Mann with oil reserves. This will leave the great Scottish unwashed wallowing in their own mess and then they will start to migrate to the Rest of the UK's benefit system as Wee-Eck's money runs out. The Tories will get another term in 2015 as Labour instantly lose 47 seats and the Lib Dems a further 11. Bonnie Scotland's cities becoming economic wastelands, the Highlands being largely unaffected and what has this got to do with Mil Aviation? Well I predict significant unrest in Scotland once the honeymoon of a potential 'yes' vote has won - not quite civil war, but not far off. It might also spark off Northern Ireland again as well. So I suspect that some of our Mil Aviation might be coming home from the great big sandpits of the world to look after our interests for a bit...
...here's hoping I am wrong!
LJ
So what is going to be left in Scotland if it goes to 'yes' - lots of these...
The rest of the UK's GDP will instantly rise by ~£120 per head, Scotland's finances will collapse (a great opportunity for the Rest of the UK to invest!), the people of Orkney & Shetland will seek 'self determination' as part of the Rest of the UK (they are staunch 'no' voters) and it will set it up like the Isle of Mann with oil reserves. This will leave the great Scottish unwashed wallowing in their own mess and then they will start to migrate to the Rest of the UK's benefit system as Wee-Eck's money runs out. The Tories will get another term in 2015 as Labour instantly lose 47 seats and the Lib Dems a further 11. Bonnie Scotland's cities becoming economic wastelands, the Highlands being largely unaffected and what has this got to do with Mil Aviation? Well I predict significant unrest in Scotland once the honeymoon of a potential 'yes' vote has won - not quite civil war, but not far off. It might also spark off Northern Ireland again as well. So I suspect that some of our Mil Aviation might be coming home from the great big sandpits of the world to look after our interests for a bit...
...here's hoping I am wrong!
LJ
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,573
Received 422 Likes
on
222 Posts
Someone? Personal grudge? Personal agenda?
The Scottish National Party has been in existence for more than 80 years, has consistently campaigned for Scottish independence and is the largest political party in Scotland in terms of membership. The primary reason it has taken so long to get to this point is that, for decades, it was impossible to break the Labour strongholds in Scotland. There was once a suggestion that money could be saved by weighing votes in Scotland instead of the pointless exercise of counting them.
The Scottish National Party has been in existence for more than 80 years, has consistently campaigned for Scottish independence and is the largest political party in Scotland in terms of membership. The primary reason it has taken so long to get to this point is that, for decades, it was impossible to break the Labour strongholds in Scotland. There was once a suggestion that money could be saved by weighing votes in Scotland instead of the pointless exercise of counting them.
As I am not of Scottish descent (or Welsh, for that matter) I don't really care whether they stay as part of UK or not. I just don't want to have to bail them out if it all goes pear shaped.
I'm fully aware that the SNP goes back a long way. It might be worth considering why those voting for the Labour party didn't vote for them instead in the past (the SNP). It might have something to do with jobs..
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 714
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well as a veteran currently in receipt of a mil pension I will be staying. My pension was accrued through contract with the UK crown. The UK crown, the rUK will be the legal inheritor, will remain responsible for payment, Now however that is to be done, level transfer of funds, agreement transfer to Scottish government - this will be determined during the settlement negotiations - we know not at the moment, of course we don't. Does it frighten me, no, does it concern me, yes, a little but I'm not loosing sleep - I have faith both sides will honour the contract. Many of the other issues raised are already known, we already have arrangements for those veterans living abroad who chose to have their pension paid in the local currency - they do so accepting the tax regime that this entails. At the end of the day, we all have the choice to move or stay, you could not drag me away from here.
Tom
Tom
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Holly Beach, Louisiana
Posts: 916
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Then watch out for the asylum seekers / economic migrants come clambering over the newly rebuilt Hadrian's Wall in years to come.....
Just as Fences make good neighbors so might a really good Wall.