Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules

[KenV]

Ken V, brilliant vid, showing exactly how it could have been done by Albert too.

Can Albert's loadmaster release more than one 463L pallet lock at a time in the RAF? Or would they use the airdrop system? In the C-17 the logistics cargo handling system (which uses 463L pallets) is different than and entirely separate from the airdrop system (which uses Type V platforms.)

[smujsmith]

KenV,

Good point, and obviously my poor use of vernacular incited the response. I would never knowingly knock the speed or capabilities of a C130K Loadie, but, tested against a fully automated, purpose built system, I see why Albert didn't do this "modus operandi". As for speed generally, you would do very well as a GE to beat a Loadie to the party room Point well made.

Smudge

[dragartist]

ULLA had disappeared from the MAR long before 2001. It was still in the C book for a while after this.


I am not sure if some of the EPERA kit ended up in use with PURIBAD when we had the 21ft extractor. As soon as we adopted the 10ft the kit was disposed of. Not sure if it went to South Africa


I think I recall one of the MADs telling me about ME One tons without static lines hooked up being used for combat offload from the K but this may have been a JATE trial to prove an emergency drill.


My memory fails me AA62 you know I can't recall if the J had the twin bomb racks. I know we did sequential sticks with Type V in the early days. I can't honestly remember if we did a split stick without having to close up and rig the extractor in flight. I think I had gone before we ever got round to doing a double PURIBAD with the 24 ft boat from the J. I know we did it on the K. It was quite crowded.


Interesting tale about having to install the switch for ULLA on the K. We did a similar thing on the J to install a "Winch Armed" switch at 245 beside the LAPES switch for use with CDS at P-x and after the safety pins had been removed from the operating lanyards.

[dragartist]

Ken,
We are beginning to get off thread. This is about the K. I am also guilty.
The K used Skydel Cargo handling system. The latches and locks and rollers are totally different from the US Aircraft. It was not till we had the J did we have the Brooks and Perkins.


The pallets and AD Platforms had pegs sticking out the side which sat in hooks to prevent forward restraint for airdrop. Aft restraint was mainly though the centreline beams with T Bars and straps. There was little commonality.


I am sure we could fill a book!

[Trumpet_trousers]

I know Airbus folks looked at the C-17 cargo handling systems and considered a similar system on the A400M. But I understand (but cannot confirm) that they decided this was too expensive and went with 3rd party systems similar to the C-130, which each service had to buy on their own, separate from the aircraft.

A400M CHS/ADS systems are designed in-house, but the components and hardware are supplied by 3rd party suppliers, no different to C-17 in that respect. A common system is built in for each aircraft. It is compatible with 463L/HCU-6, Type V, and French BT13.

[ancientaviator62]

R4H,
if you have managed to read all the postings on this thread you will have seen that at JATE we were dropping the Scorpion in the 1970s. I only ever recall dropping it on an MSP (the Jaguar engined version) but dragartist recalls dropping the heavier Diesel version on the HSP. I find it odd that the 'wheel'
was being reinvented in 2001 especially as the HSP was supposed to be 'not wanted on voyage' from not long after my time at JATE.
As I recounted in a previous post we also dropped troops following an MSP.

[R4H]

HSP

Don't know why they were trying to bring HSP back as I was new guy and program was fairly well advanced for HSP Mk2. As I said, the one I dropped in 2001 was a cobbled rebuilt original HSP. That was the re-engine diesel Scorpion. T**y B**d (007) was Alm and Nav (C****dad).

[gopher01]

JACIG

I'm afraid my JACIG wasn't to Hungary so no, I wasn't with you on that one Smudge, however I did fit in one to Moscow, one to Kiev and the best one to Prague where once you were in the military hotel it was open season on where you wanted to go apart from the organised visits to a traditional castle, very turrety and historic, a visit to a glass blowing empire, their crystal glass is absolutely first class and a visit to the original Budvar brewery, purveyors of the original Budveiser, (who when sued by the American Budveiser company for using " their trade name" pointed out that they had been brewing Budveiser since before the U.S.A. had been invented and nothing more was heard). I fitted in a visit to Kebly near Prague where they have an excellent aviation museum, all sorts of aircraft you never get to see in the U.K. I imagine they weren't as worried about security as Prague was full of trippers from the U.K., Germany etc.

[November4]

I got tasked to Prague in May 1994 for 2 nights. Not JACIG, but with a small flight from 47 Sqn. We were briefed to keep it quiet that we were English as we were not to draw attention to ourselvesas they were not many English tourist there and it would be difficult to be unobtrusive.

Landed, did the offload, Hercules departed and the MAMS team were taken to the hotel and told to go and explore by the Embassy staff. A trip in another taxi to Wensesles Square to find the place was full of English coach and hundreds of English tourists. So much for keeping quiet about being English....

Have to say that Prague was one of the best night stops I had.

[smujsmith]

Gopher 01, thanks for that, and I recognise a few of the "diversions you were attracted to. I remember going to a ballet one evening, followed by a day trip to Lake Balaton, where we were plied with very strong, flavoured Vodka, at every stop, by the half pint. I did, of course resist

November4, You and your team were probably part of the "English" tourists that Gopher remembers.

JACIG was always a treat I think for the AGEs, it was a week on the ground, a chance to unpack your bag, and a chance to mingle with the enemy. Something not dissimilar to a weeks leave at home

Smudge

[dragartist]

R4H, I managed to find the photo of HSP. It was normal for the print to have a neg number on the back but this one did not so I can't swear if it was from 1995/6 when I was at JATE or in 2000 and something. It would most likely have been a JATE image as personal cameras were not permitted.


I remember the bit of wood with the power bulge over the barrel and all the horse hair


As for why in 2001: I can only guess that the drive was for troops following which was flavour of the month. Since TROC prohibited following troops on MSP, HSP was an option.


Now take your self back to the political climate. It was cut cut cut and lots of salami slicing. ownership of the AD capability was in a flux. DEC had not stood up. There was a lot of posturing going on.


I had been told of an era when we dropped 20 MSPs a week. I think we may have managed less than 20 in that year. The operating cost was horrendous. We still needed all the people in factories that serviced BARCPs, made TROC Cables, Chains and tensioners, Fixed Role equipment, Built furniture and skid doors, Straightened out bent side frames, packed chutes etc. In truth we could not afford to do all these things.


We only had a couple of HSPs and I could not see the point but did my best to rustle things together. I guess someone was trying to live in the past.


This was the same time as we had what we thought was the best in the world and were the best in the world at it. We were being asked by the US to front another project. Our contribution being the highly skilled and best trained and disciplined manpower. In truth we could not afford our meagre subs to the golf club.


I wonder what we can do today.


We must pay tribute to the aircraft we had at the time. It was not the C17 or A400M. We certainly did more with the K than ever with the J. Hopefully A400M will leapfrog.


We dreamed about having C17 for AD but recall it being said "If we are not allowed to drop anything from them just paint them white and park 'em up at Brize" - That was then and this is now I think all the aircraft we have had have been worked hard.

[aeroid]

Anyone seen a "K"

You are quite right dragartist. I think that the K has been hijacked. Being a bear of little brain I often get the Puribad and Epera confused with the Lapes switch, especially when comparing it with the 463L/HCV type V. I personally preferred to cross an R2D2 with a C3PO and replace the Birmingham 6 with Tfor2. If that is followed by 5L of 6X you can guarantee that you will finish up with Sweet FA! And I used to think that you guys were asleep down the back.

[smujsmith]

aeroid, if that's the case, let me offer you a little 'K' balm.



I think this is this ones second outing. Taken during op Winter Express, and a shot of 205 doing some SF support. The tall bloke at the back was the boss of the "Hereford Hooligan" element, on that Det.

We had a bit of an incident on this one, that AA62 (a professional aviator) might explain better than myself. One night we were tasked to drop a "team" on a HALO trip. They were to use the "Canadian tube", a system that has high merit IMHO, to arrive at their DZ with all of their equipment (the Ski's, snow shoes and weapons going down in the Canadian Tube). We did the drop, but the chute on the Canadian tube failed to open, so the troops lost their kit. As we had dropped them in a seriously remote part of Norway, their late arrival at the target site (for their dummy bombs) raised no eyebrows. But when they were 3 days late, a search was undertaken. The lads weren't found. 2 days after that, the "bomb signs" turned up on target, and the troops were recovered, not necessarily in the rudest of health. Having lost their kit they had evaded (the search aircraft) and reached their target despite the loss of their kit.

I was only a GE, but seriously had a lot of respect for both SAS and SBS troops, who even on exercise gave of their best.

Honestly aeroid, it's a K Now AA62, the Canadian Tube ?

Meanwhile, a more sedate trip down the South Atlantic ;



Smudge

[aeroid]

K Balm

Thanks Smudge, A view that I recognise, though before they fitted the plumbing and spoiled the view. Oh how I remember those days back in '67 blah blah blah, time for my supper, someone has found the corkscrew.

[dragartist]

Sorry Aeroid, I had a drop of Aspels Premier with my lunch. That accounts for the slurred speech. An Air Despatcher type had told me that you don't get a headache with cyder. He lied!


Don't forget you are not allowed to smoke 8 hrs before flying or drink within 50 yds of the airplane.

[smujsmith]

Aeroid,

A vid to accompany your post supper wind down ;

http://youtu.be/aVjuw3g7jgE

Some good airdrop action too. Have we seen this before ?

Enjoy

Smudge

[aeroid]

K Revived

Thanks Smudge, It brings a tear to a glass eye

[ksimboy]

I recall dropping the Canadian Tube on Det in El Centro, the trainee Pathfinder asked how close he should stay to it. I suggested in case of a malfunction he stayed close enough to see it but far enough away to avoid trouble. Said tube descended from 18k on drogue only , and what had started as a 6 ft high solid object was reduced to a 4 in high pile of broken bits, kit inside didn't fare very well either! Left a substantial crater in the dz too.

[Dougie M]

Canadian Tube

The tube followed by troops was not exact science and subject to glitches but the patrol was obliged to follow this overgrown toilet roll inner because the contents were vital to achieve the objective. Once in the frozen wilds of Norway I committed one of these tubes to the rarified icy sky at night laden with skis and rations for the accompanying Marines. The chute DID deploy arresting the tube but the base plate did not. The DZSO clutching his Clansman in the dark only heard the whistling skis and poles as they stuck into the snow all around him. Only after a few norgy beer some days later he said that when we asked for a "Drop accuracy" he was prompted to yell "ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHTY!"

[dragartist]

Ksim, I like the comment "how close should we stay too it" Clearly not close enough before the silly sods tied themselves too it and it became the MTTB as in Dougies picture.


I remember one that was very long and got into a bit of a scary oscillation. He was a long time cutting it away.


Do they still have CADS or anything similar? It was obsolete years ago.