Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules
TT, classic !
Whilst we are on the subject of Air Conditioning/Pressurisation. I was reliably informed that the F117 air con system is actually the flight deck conditioning pack from Albert. My informant suggests that they used off the shelf components where possible to avoid revealing "new development". Anyone know anything about it ?
Smudge
Whilst we are on the subject of Air Conditioning/Pressurisation. I was reliably informed that the F117 air con system is actually the flight deck conditioning pack from Albert. My informant suggests that they used off the shelf components where possible to avoid revealing "new development". Anyone know anything about it ?
Smudge
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Just slipped my anorak on for this one.
The K model flight deck conditioner handled a mass of 30 lb/min (15 lbs/min from GTC).
The late H models had larger ones (similar to cargo cpt) 70 lbs/min.
OK, that's why we used to go 'Supercool' on low level. AirCond/NoPress with the Aux Vent Valves open to get ram effect too.
Anorak OFF.
ps all the above IIRC
The K model flight deck conditioner handled a mass of 30 lb/min (15 lbs/min from GTC).
The late H models had larger ones (similar to cargo cpt) 70 lbs/min.
OK, that's why we used to go 'Supercool' on low level. AirCond/NoPress with the Aux Vent Valves open to get ram effect too.
Anorak OFF.
ps all the above IIRC
Ahh Brian,
"Supercool", now there's a blast from the past. As a Sgt rigger linie I debriefed a crew off a local sortie one lunchtime, who had a follow up low level trip that afternoon. The Engineer was adamant that the air conditioning was so noisy that the crew had difficulty communicating on intercom. We had 2 hours to test everything that we could, and did so. Once again NFF appeared in the F700 and the aircraft was presented to the crew for their afternoon sortie. This was prior to my GE days, but I was always happy to offer my services as an impartial observer, which was accepted by the aircraft captain. About 5 minutes after departure it became quite obvious why the "air conditioning" was noisy, something I could not deny. But I had noticed that the Eng had configured the system in an unusual way, pulling CBs etc, and that was the cause of the noise. I enjoyed a couple of hours of superb low level flying, and was told by the Eng on landing that he would be "re snagging" the noisy air conditioning. With the captain present I put the case that his configuring the system as he had, had created the noise. Also that "the book" precluded his use of the "supercool" set up. He didn't snag the frame. Years later, as a GE, I understood fully, certainly low level in the Gulf, why supercool was a necessary abuse of the system, but could never fathom why an Air Eng, who set the system up like that, could snag it for being noisy !!! I bet there's a few Engineers who used it though. And I for one would never blame them.
As we are in to "confessions" anyone interested in the Sarajevo vacuum cleaner ?
Smudge
"Supercool", now there's a blast from the past. As a Sgt rigger linie I debriefed a crew off a local sortie one lunchtime, who had a follow up low level trip that afternoon. The Engineer was adamant that the air conditioning was so noisy that the crew had difficulty communicating on intercom. We had 2 hours to test everything that we could, and did so. Once again NFF appeared in the F700 and the aircraft was presented to the crew for their afternoon sortie. This was prior to my GE days, but I was always happy to offer my services as an impartial observer, which was accepted by the aircraft captain. About 5 minutes after departure it became quite obvious why the "air conditioning" was noisy, something I could not deny. But I had noticed that the Eng had configured the system in an unusual way, pulling CBs etc, and that was the cause of the noise. I enjoyed a couple of hours of superb low level flying, and was told by the Eng on landing that he would be "re snagging" the noisy air conditioning. With the captain present I put the case that his configuring the system as he had, had created the noise. Also that "the book" precluded his use of the "supercool" set up. He didn't snag the frame. Years later, as a GE, I understood fully, certainly low level in the Gulf, why supercool was a necessary abuse of the system, but could never fathom why an Air Eng, who set the system up like that, could snag it for being noisy !!! I bet there's a few Engineers who used it though. And I for one would never blame them.
As we are in to "confessions" anyone interested in the Sarajevo vacuum cleaner ?
Smudge
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Yep, it required pulling the c/bs. Although I have wondered when Engs were setting the system into Supercool if they knew exactly WHAT they were doing - in fairness most did.
Salutory tale, in the sim, we used to advise against pulling the Gear Warning Horn c/b when flying with one Simulated Asymmetric. We said the danger is someone forgets to reset it.
Didn't happen in my time, but then XV304 happened and it had all the hallmarks of exactly this problem. Had the horn c/b been set, as soon as they selected 100 flap, the horn would have gone and you'd be unable to cancel it without retracting the flap lever above 70% (?) or getting locked gear.
Ho hum.
Salutory tale, in the sim, we used to advise against pulling the Gear Warning Horn c/b when flying with one Simulated Asymmetric. We said the danger is someone forgets to reset it.
Didn't happen in my time, but then XV304 happened and it had all the hallmarks of exactly this problem. Had the horn c/b been set, as soon as they selected 100 flap, the horn would have gone and you'd be unable to cancel it without retracting the flap lever above 70% (?) or getting locked gear.
Ho hum.
Brian, so right, and how easy it is to operate outside of the standardised training, and forget to reset to "normal" before RTB. When I was on the line, as a rigger, we used to hate it when SF were given a MK3 for night ANVIS training, or TALO. Eng Ops never seemed to realise that the pilots were unaware of the difference between XV222 and XV205, and, as riggers the replacement of the urinal drain tubes was guaranteed. Despite the "this is a Mk3 aircraft" signage on the panel. But then, that's pilots for you. No offense chaps
Smudge
Smudge
I think the K must have suffered some sort of air conditioning issue. Many crews reported extreme dehydration, headaches and nausea on the morning after a flight........
DC,
must have been due to the Kokinelli they used to top up the hydraulic systems in Akrotiri !
must have been due to the Kokinelli they used to top up the hydraulic systems in Akrotiri !
I used to enjoy flying over London on a Friday night and seeing miles of very slow moving lights as the traffic crawled along the M4.
The 'K' air con system always seemed to be tainted with fumes and the whole a/c of hot hydraulic fuel . Then of course the tanker smelled of fuel especially after standing in the sun at ASI. Can I sue the government for Aerotoxic Syndrome ?
The 'K' air con system always seemed to be tainted with fumes and the whole a/c of hot hydraulic fuel . Then of course the tanker smelled of fuel especially after standing in the sun at ASI. Can I sue the government for Aerotoxic Syndrome ?
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Coff, it certainly couldn't be Filfar poisoning because we burnt all that, although I'm less certain about the fumes!
If coming back from a westerly direction, Screech often had an effect on maintaining ones station in ones hammock, operating a hammock under these conditions was a trying task
Smudge
Smudge
Coff,
I might try the Kokinelli route first (pun intended) as if HMG had not sent us to Akrotiri then we would not have been exposed to it.
'Res ipsa loquitur' !
I might try the Kokinelli route first (pun intended) as if HMG had not sent us to Akrotiri then we would not have been exposed to it.
'Res ipsa loquitur' !
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The 'Flaming Filfar' has been a party trick of mine for over 30 years, having been taught by Greg, the owner of Sylvana's in 1981. Never been burnt but have watched in great amusment as others have tried to keep up (After warning them of the of the dangers first, of course) 
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Remember being in the Sgts Mess @ Akronelli during Granby, you could not move for ascot crews, rodneys as well. Somebody mentioned that I had just got engaged and suddenly everyone was buying me brandy sours. I crawled back to our basha that night.
Alcazares,
I may have been there that night. As I recall our commissioned crew members were swiftly banned by the jobsworths of "happy Holidayville" ! As the SNCOs were then banned from being hosted in the O's mess. It all served to alienate base facilities at Akrotiri as anti transport fleet as I recall. The bonus with Akronelli was the off base facilities, that never let us down.
As a GE I enjoyed a week away in Hungary, as part of a crew delivering a disarmament inspection team, Gopher 01 might well have been the "senior" GE on the trip. As we had little to do for five days, our hosts arranged "cultural" events, always escorted by our new friends. One of these events involved a 3 hour (each way) coach trip to lake Balaton, for a paddle. Having no option we trooped aboard the bus (similar to RAF standard MT) and set off. About an hour in to the journey we stopped for a quick lunch at a Hungarian military base. We were all entertained in the officers mess, regardless of rank, and our meal was accompanied by copious quantities of fruit flavoured schnapps, seriously, by the half pint. I did dangle my toes in lake Balaton, but our return trip, involving a stop for dinner at the same officers mess, including more half pints of fruit flavoured schnapps (ISTR Blackcurrant ?) ensured a total lack of interest in a tour of Budapest bars that evening after return to our hotel. JACIG trips were often either bloody great or bloody horrible. I would put that one as a good trip. Was it you Gopher01 ?
Smudge
I may have been there that night. As I recall our commissioned crew members were swiftly banned by the jobsworths of "happy Holidayville" ! As the SNCOs were then banned from being hosted in the O's mess. It all served to alienate base facilities at Akrotiri as anti transport fleet as I recall. The bonus with Akronelli was the off base facilities, that never let us down.
As a GE I enjoyed a week away in Hungary, as part of a crew delivering a disarmament inspection team, Gopher 01 might well have been the "senior" GE on the trip. As we had little to do for five days, our hosts arranged "cultural" events, always escorted by our new friends. One of these events involved a 3 hour (each way) coach trip to lake Balaton, for a paddle. Having no option we trooped aboard the bus (similar to RAF standard MT) and set off. About an hour in to the journey we stopped for a quick lunch at a Hungarian military base. We were all entertained in the officers mess, regardless of rank, and our meal was accompanied by copious quantities of fruit flavoured schnapps, seriously, by the half pint. I did dangle my toes in lake Balaton, but our return trip, involving a stop for dinner at the same officers mess, including more half pints of fruit flavoured schnapps (ISTR Blackcurrant ?) ensured a total lack of interest in a tour of Budapest bars that evening after return to our hotel. JACIG trips were often either bloody great or bloody horrible. I would put that one as a good trip. Was it you Gopher01 ?
Smudge
Last edited by smujsmith; 24th Apr 2015 at 19:52.
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JACIG
I recall a memorable JACIG trip to Schoenefeld Airfield in East Berlin when the only route in was via the Baltic Sea and down through Polish airspace. Slightly embarrassing when our route maps went white at the border. Saved by a tatty Jeppesen we made it to find that the entire crew were accommodated in one room. "Nein danke" we said. "But Interflug crews always stay in one room", they said. " You speak the lingo, Nav, tell them about 38Gp Regs" Turning to the Herr Flick fellow I said "Singleroomsfor seniorofficersandcaptainandofficersdonotsharewithairmenaircr ew" "Vun moment" he said and there we were with a fourteen bed dormitory each. I won't mention losing our minder in the bars of East Berlin when he got p****d and we slipped away when he went to the bog but things got a bit chilly when the Vopos found us. They also baulked at the 10 bottles of bull's blood requested at dinner but we said we were off our food. I swear that the steaks were equine.
They got their own back when we demanded to go to Cottbus and they refused. You Must comply we said. You can't land there, it's a helicopter base and the runways are pot holed. ..... Bugger
The visit to Potsdam was marred by me pointing out that the Union Flag on the conference table was upside down.
"If it was good enough for Churchill it should be good enough for you!" was the reply. "Tell him who won the war" said the Detco. "They all speak English" I said "they react to comments before I translate"
"Very clever, Englishman" said Herr Flick
At the farewell cocktail party we put on the full "Iceland spread" from the bulk rations with glasses full of cigarettes around the tables. It was good to see that the East German Airforce Officers swept all the stuff remaining into their SD caps to take home. Some things are international.
On departure after saying "Da'Svidanye" to the obvious Soviet stool pigeons amongst them we did a "Most righteous" low level departure and climb out. ATC complained until we reminded them that the international pressure settings were millibar/hectopascals and heights in feet not metres, so sorry.
Question: Where did all these anti-West Commies go when the Wall came down? Herr Flick probably runs the "Cancel the British Rebate" part of the E.U.
They got their own back when we demanded to go to Cottbus and they refused. You Must comply we said. You can't land there, it's a helicopter base and the runways are pot holed. ..... Bugger
The visit to Potsdam was marred by me pointing out that the Union Flag on the conference table was upside down.
"If it was good enough for Churchill it should be good enough for you!" was the reply. "Tell him who won the war" said the Detco. "They all speak English" I said "they react to comments before I translate"
"Very clever, Englishman" said Herr Flick
At the farewell cocktail party we put on the full "Iceland spread" from the bulk rations with glasses full of cigarettes around the tables. It was good to see that the East German Airforce Officers swept all the stuff remaining into their SD caps to take home. Some things are international.
On departure after saying "Da'Svidanye" to the obvious Soviet stool pigeons amongst them we did a "Most righteous" low level departure and climb out. ATC complained until we reminded them that the international pressure settings were millibar/hectopascals and heights in feet not metres, so sorry.
Question: Where did all these anti-West Commies go when the Wall came down? Herr Flick probably runs the "Cancel the British Rebate" part of the E.U.
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Nice one Dougie. I only ever did the Control Zone flying - in circles to keep our right to fly in circles over Berlin current. Cliff Foggo was on the one that collected the ND in the wing causing subsequent serious fuel leak. They must have missed us . . .
We went through Checkpoint Charlie with lots of cameras pointed at us (doubtless so Ashford had something to work with), but in the last year or two me and SWMBO stayed in the Hotel Angleterre (really), just up the road from the checkpoint.
We wandered through the area around the river and the Vopo shooting gallery - quite spooky.
Also, looking at the chariot on top of the Brandenburg Gate was weird as I'd only seen it from 'the West' and now I was in Unter den Linden looking towards 'the West'.
We went through Checkpoint Charlie with lots of cameras pointed at us (doubtless so Ashford had something to work with), but in the last year or two me and SWMBO stayed in the Hotel Angleterre (really), just up the road from the checkpoint.
We wandered through the area around the river and the Vopo shooting gallery - quite spooky.
Also, looking at the chariot on top of the Brandenburg Gate was weird as I'd only seen it from 'the West' and now I was in Unter den Linden looking towards 'the West'.
Coff #2898,
Even in this enlightened age, the censor might struggle to allow such a tome a public airing I reckon I would preorder delivery though. Come on Dougie, a few thousand pages should give us all some memories to treasure.
Smudge
Even in this enlightened age, the censor might struggle to allow such a tome a public airing
I reckon I would preorder delivery though. Come on Dougie, a few thousand pages should give us all some memories to treasure.Smudge
Doug,
reminds me of JACIG trips to the 'other side' where a box of Mars Bars would open all sorts of doors in the 'workers paradise' so beloved of the UK Marxists. Biggest problem was aways the 'food' and trying to dispose diplomatically of the rocket fuel that masqueraded as vodka.
reminds me of JACIG trips to the 'other side' where a box of Mars Bars would open all sorts of doors in the 'workers paradise' so beloved of the UK Marxists. Biggest problem was aways the 'food' and trying to dispose diplomatically of the rocket fuel that masqueraded as vodka.