Ukraine calling for UN intervention
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Hasn't been much interest from the UK public thank God. Let us keep out of it entirely.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Power and Weakness by Robert Kagan More often referred to as the "Americans are from Mars, Europeans are from Venus" essay. The old Kantean vs Hobbesian debate on how International Relations actually work. It would seem Hobbes was right.....
From Mr. Kagan to Mrs. Kagan: Mars and Venus, Part II
From Mr. Kagan to Mrs. Kagan: Mars and Venus, Part II
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BBC News - Russia fears Crimea water shortage as supply drops
It seems Crimea now has a lack of water.
It seems Crimea now has a lack of water.
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It seems Crimea now has a lack of water.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
A very interesting and enlightening read concerning what is happening on the ground inside eastern Ukraine - and by whom.....
“Slovyansk is the Center of the Bermuda Triangle”
.........Yet detailed information about what’s really going on in Slovyansk is hard to come by, not least because Russian-backed militants capture and kill people they don’t like. Fortunately, there’s a fascinating new interview in the daily Ukrayinska Pravda with the Belarusian opposition journalist Dzmitry Halko, who writes for Novy Chas, a weekly paper that is one of the very few independent outlets in Lukashenka’s repressive Belarus. This Russian-language interview, entitled “Ten Hours in Slavyansk,” recounts his strange experiences during a recent visit to GRU-occupied territory. It’s filled with important details about what’s really going on in Eastern Ukraine today, so I’m passing on the whole interview, beginning with Halko’s introduction........
...............There you have it: provocations, intimidation, ethnic cleansing among a freak-show of alcoholics, gangsters, Orthodox “warriors,” and GRU operatives, amidst lots of innocent people trapped with nowhere to escape … some great insights there into what de facto Russian rule in Eastern Ukraine actually looks like. As I write, Slovyansk “militants” have stated they will only free their OSCE captives in exchange for prisoners held by Kyiv. It’s going to be a bumpy ride, watch this space.
“Slovyansk is the Center of the Bermuda Triangle”
.........Yet detailed information about what’s really going on in Slovyansk is hard to come by, not least because Russian-backed militants capture and kill people they don’t like. Fortunately, there’s a fascinating new interview in the daily Ukrayinska Pravda with the Belarusian opposition journalist Dzmitry Halko, who writes for Novy Chas, a weekly paper that is one of the very few independent outlets in Lukashenka’s repressive Belarus. This Russian-language interview, entitled “Ten Hours in Slavyansk,” recounts his strange experiences during a recent visit to GRU-occupied territory. It’s filled with important details about what’s really going on in Eastern Ukraine today, so I’m passing on the whole interview, beginning with Halko’s introduction........
...............There you have it: provocations, intimidation, ethnic cleansing among a freak-show of alcoholics, gangsters, Orthodox “warriors,” and GRU operatives, amidst lots of innocent people trapped with nowhere to escape … some great insights there into what de facto Russian rule in Eastern Ukraine actually looks like. As I write, Slovyansk “militants” have stated they will only free their OSCE captives in exchange for prisoners held by Kyiv. It’s going to be a bumpy ride, watch this space.
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What exactly is the status of the NATO "military observers" we have seen paraded on TV? Ukraine isn't a NATO member. Why are they there? Surely their very presence in the country plays into the hands of Putins agenda that this is all being stirred up by Western powers.
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Their not NATO observers, they are military from member countrys part of the European security thingy bobby, which Russia is part of as well.
It makes it look like Russia isn't involved, but are the good guys when they help them get released. Frankly I hope the member states who's personal they are, will be organsing a special forces extraction before that occurs.
It makes it look like Russia isn't involved, but are the good guys when they help them get released. Frankly I hope the member states who's personal they are, will be organsing a special forces extraction before that occurs.
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ah yes, that would really quieten things down.
Ps. Hopefully your suggestion was really a light-hearted reference to the Ukrainian special forces team starring (in their underpants) in the same BBC bulletin yesterday
Ps. Hopefully your suggestion was really a light-hearted reference to the Ukrainian special forces team starring (in their underpants) in the same BBC bulletin yesterday
Last edited by ShotOne; 28th Apr 2014 at 13:02.
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ah yes, that would really quieten things down.
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Personally, I hope Putin just moves in and takes eastern Ukraine up to the north-south line of lakes and rivers. As for us doing anything - its not our business, our interests and safety are not threatened. I don't think the interests or safety of any European country are threatened. What Putin would have done is to divide up a recent, artificial country into its ethnic components.
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What exactly have we taken up the rear?
It's clear there are parts of Ukraine where the Russians enjoy strong popular support from locals who consider themselves more Russian than Ukrainian and do not welcome the Ukrainian (and especially not NATO) military. And no I'm not saying I'm happy with the situation, far from it, just that it's not a straightforward good guys versus bad guys. Please tell me you were joking about committing NATO special forces (?)!!
It's clear there are parts of Ukraine where the Russians enjoy strong popular support from locals who consider themselves more Russian than Ukrainian and do not welcome the Ukrainian (and especially not NATO) military. And no I'm not saying I'm happy with the situation, far from it, just that it's not a straightforward good guys versus bad guys. Please tell me you were joking about committing NATO special forces (?)!!
And what about the sizeable group who aren't "Russian Speakers" who do not want to go back into Russia?
Who is looking out for them?
Who is looking out for them?
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That's the rub of the problem isn't it, as in Crimea they will be pooing themselves at home, isn't most of the Ukraine's generating capacity also in the East?
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What exactly have we taken up the rear?
Please tell me you were joking about committing NATO special forces (?)!!
Personally have western troops on the ground on the eastern border with Russia conducting a excersise would just be playing the same game.
Without an election and with a lot of armed people roaming around in support of Russia, how clear exactly is it that X or Y is what the rest of the population think?
The Crimea was the only one that was a toss up, the fact that they installed some one there to run things who was in a party that had about 2 to 4 percent of the vote in the last election speaks volumes for how confident the Russians where.
In the other eastern parts of the Ukrainian the Russians don't have the numbers by a reasonable margin. Yes you can find smaller enclaves that would go their way.
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Whoever is holding them, any rescue attempt would have to kill a load of Russian/Ukrainians, who's to tell. And if it went wrong there would have to be a much larger invasion to extricate. Suddenly we are fighting someone else's civil war. How can you demand NATO military action in Ukraine while insisting Russian military there are terrorists?
There is of course a principled case, rh, to be made for intervention. But if you're going to make that case, you must then explain why you aren't/weren't in favour of doing so everywhere else in the world (volunteers for Chechnya anyone?)people are doing vile things to each other.
There is of course a principled case, rh, to be made for intervention. But if you're going to make that case, you must then explain why you aren't/weren't in favour of doing so everywhere else in the world (volunteers for Chechnya anyone?)people are doing vile things to each other.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Ukraine: Hate in Progress
.......If war is coming, which is the way it feels, Aleksandr and Volodymyr will be remembered and not just by their families and friends. When the Balkan conflict began in the early 1990s the names of the very first to die were engraved in everyone’s memory and later in the history books. Soon after, the individual names and faces gave way to the torrent of numbers.............
.......If war is coming, which is the way it feels, Aleksandr and Volodymyr will be remembered and not just by their families and friends. When the Balkan conflict began in the early 1990s the names of the very first to die were engraved in everyone’s memory and later in the history books. Soon after, the individual names and faces gave way to the torrent of numbers.............
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Not looking good today 
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
The danger is that, having stoked the fires of nationalism and fear so high, Putin has lost control and will have to respond militarily - even if he hadn't intended too. The trouble with brinkmanship is the risk that someone or something unexpected pushes one over the edge......
Odessa, Yesterday
We don’t know if the events in Odessa late yesterday will later be seen as the moment when Ukraine finally slipped into some sort of civil war, and nor do we know what use Putin, the true arsonist, will make of the horror in the burning trade union building — his own Reichstag, should he so choose — but Ben Judah is surely right when he tweets:
Odessa, Yesterday
We don’t know if the events in Odessa late yesterday will later be seen as the moment when Ukraine finally slipped into some sort of civil war, and nor do we know what use Putin, the true arsonist, will make of the horror in the burning trade union building — his own Reichstag, should he so choose — but Ben Judah is surely right when he tweets:
Normal middle class Russians in state of shock, emotion, fear after Odessa massacre. State Department needs to tread in awareness of this.
Last edited by ORAC; 3rd May 2014 at 08:32.