Ukraine calling for UN intervention
That pretty much sums up the situation in Ukraine and explains a lot of this mess.
Things are often not quite as clear cut as they seem at first glance or as seen through the media filter.
Putin is playing games. But he is not the first to do so in this chess game over the influence sphere in Eastern Europe.
Big playground.
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There are fault lines in Ukraine. People outside are exploiting them, as are people inside
They may not have insignia, but there's actually very little doubt that there is highly trained troops on the ground coordinating.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Russia warns Ukraine could see Georgia repeat if interests threatened
Foreign minister says Russia will respond, as in South Ossetia, if its citizens are attacked
Russia will respond if its interests are attacked in Ukraine, as they were in South Ossetia in 2008 which led to war with Georgia, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has said. Issuing a blunt warning, Mr Lavrov said: "If we are attacked, we would certainly respond. If our interests, our legitimate interests, the interests of Russians have been attacked directly, like they were in South Ossetia for example, I do not see any other way but to respond in full accordance with international law."
Mr Lavrov did not elaborate further on what the response would entail but the reference to Georgia's breakaway region of South Ossetia strongly hints at the possibility of military action.In August 2008 Russia sent troops into South Ossetia and then into Tbilisi-controlled Georgian territory after then president Mikheil Saakashvili tried to reestablish control over the breakaway region. Russia then recognised South Ossetia and another breakaway Georgian region, Abkhazia, as independent in defiance of the West.
"Russian citizens being attacked is an attack against the Russian Federation," Mr Lavrov told Russia Today, which published excerpts of the English-language interview to be broadcast later Wednesday..........
Foreign minister says Russia will respond, as in South Ossetia, if its citizens are attacked
Russia will respond if its interests are attacked in Ukraine, as they were in South Ossetia in 2008 which led to war with Georgia, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has said. Issuing a blunt warning, Mr Lavrov said: "If we are attacked, we would certainly respond. If our interests, our legitimate interests, the interests of Russians have been attacked directly, like they were in South Ossetia for example, I do not see any other way but to respond in full accordance with international law."
Mr Lavrov did not elaborate further on what the response would entail but the reference to Georgia's breakaway region of South Ossetia strongly hints at the possibility of military action.In August 2008 Russia sent troops into South Ossetia and then into Tbilisi-controlled Georgian territory after then president Mikheil Saakashvili tried to reestablish control over the breakaway region. Russia then recognised South Ossetia and another breakaway Georgian region, Abkhazia, as independent in defiance of the West.
"Russian citizens being attacked is an attack against the Russian Federation," Mr Lavrov told Russia Today, which published excerpts of the English-language interview to be broadcast later Wednesday..........
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I'm looking at this scenario...... If English people were being shot in Wales and Scotland would it be acceptable if English military forces intervened? Take your time to reply.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
If English people were being shot in Wales and Scotland would it be acceptable if English military forces intervened? Take your time to reply.
And even that is moot - and within the same country.....
If English people were being shot in Wales and Scotland would it be acceptable if English military forces intervened? Take your time to reply.
Britain would be declaring its 'right' to protect English speakers in Ireland to save them from Dublin.
A British Putin would be stating his desire to recover the lost British Empire.
A more relevant comparison would be Ireland. If half of Ireland was taken
over by British Militia, supported by the SAS, declaring independence from
Ireland.
Britain would be declaring its 'right' to protect English speakers
in Ireland to save them from Dublin.
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Moving on, its the 21st centuray, we are supposed to be cleaning up our previous mess, not making new ones.
You need to look at the demographics of NI, not cut and dried.
A better comparison may be Turkey, Pakistan invading London to protect the rights of Muslim people if they thought they where under threat.
You need to look at the demographics of NI, not cut and dried.
A better comparison may be Turkey, Pakistan invading London to protect the rights of Muslim people if they thought they where under threat.
It is human nature to make new messes.
The Chinese are baiting one and all as they thump their chests and wave their willies all over east Asia. Making new messes, or cleaning up old ones? Well, that depends on where you sit, doesn't it?
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Not exactly. The Irish Free State was formed in 1922 as the self governing dominion of Eire (apart from the six counties of Ulster which exercised their opt out clause to remain part of the UK). It then suffered a major civil war as the left wing factions of the IRA clashed with the center right wing factions. The left wing factions had played a large part in the Easter Uprising while the right had backed the settlement terms on condition of the implementation of the Home Rule Bill following the end of WWI. The left wing faction lost the civil war and the remnants of it who refused to give up the struggle formed the IRA we all know and love today.
Eire then voted to leave the Commonwealth in 1948 and changed its name to the Republic of Ireland.
I'll leave it to others to draw their own parallels with Ukraine.
Eire then voted to leave the Commonwealth in 1948 and changed its name to the Republic of Ireland.
I'll leave it to others to draw their own parallels with Ukraine.
Granted Rakshasa that no two events can be carbon copies of each other, but the underlying fact of a larger neighbour annexing a portion of its smaller neighbour's territory to obstensibly 'protect' a portion of that smaller country's population that has ethnic/religious/language ties to it strike me as somewhat similar, no?.
And I agree rh200, I'd have hoped 21st century Europe had moved on from this.
Some great Tweets from Putin today I see:
And I agree rh200, I'd have hoped 21st century Europe had moved on from this.
Some great Tweets from Putin today I see:
Vladimir Putin @DarthPutinKGB 10 mins
There will be consequences for #Ukraine's army entering a town in Ukraine and interfering in Ukraine.
There will be consequences for #Ukraine's army entering a town in Ukraine and interfering in Ukraine.
Vladimir Putin @DarthPutinKGB 1 hr
#Ukraine's operation to restore Ukraine's guvt buildings to Ukraine's control is a blatant interference in their own internal affairs.
#Ukraine's operation to restore Ukraine's guvt buildings to Ukraine's control is a blatant interference in their own internal affairs.
Vladimir Putin @DarthPutinKGB 20 hrs
#Ukraine is destabilizing the situation in #Ukraine by keeping it's military in #Ukraine.
#Ukraine is destabilizing the situation in #Ukraine by keeping it's military in #Ukraine.
Granted Rakshasa that no two events can be carbon copies of each other, but the underlying fact of a larger neighbour annexing a portion of its smaller neighbour's territory to obstensibly 'protect' a portion of that smaller country's population that has ethnic / religious / language ties to it strike me as somewhat similar, no?.
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I'm the first one to admit that things are not all cut and dried. But frankely the whole I can move in to protect "Russian" speakers excuse is cr@p and every one knows it.
Personally if an ethnic group or some other group are in real danger then I wouldn't give to F@#ks who it was, and would expect Russia/ US etc to move in if needed.
The fact is there has been nothing on anything on a scale remotely requiring outside intervention. In fact from the start the Ukrainians have been going to great lengths to make it that way.
The only people who seem to having the rights taken away from them by being beaten etc by Russian thugs and imports seem to be the Ukrainians.
In any conflict truth is the first casualty, but there's enough independent reporting out their to get a picture of whats going on.
Personally if an ethnic group or some other group are in real danger then I wouldn't give to F@#ks who it was, and would expect Russia/ US etc to move in if needed.
The fact is there has been nothing on anything on a scale remotely requiring outside intervention. In fact from the start the Ukrainians have been going to great lengths to make it that way.
The only people who seem to having the rights taken away from them by being beaten etc by Russian thugs and imports seem to be the Ukrainians.
In any conflict truth is the first casualty, but there's enough independent reporting out their to get a picture of whats going on.
The problem with the Ukrainian actions now is that sooner or later they will be shooting Russian soldiers, because there's a fair few of them dressed up as 'Ukrainian freedom fighters'. Putin cannot afford for this to get publicized. He will invade to prevent that story getting out. Probably within the week.
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I did find Putin spouting off about his abhorrence of the Ukraine using soldiers against the civilian populace rather ironic given his history in Chechnya.
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The problem with the Ukrainian actions now is that sooner or later they will be shooting Russian soldiers, because there's a fair few of them dressed up as 'Ukrainian freedom fighters'. Putin cannot afford for this to get publicized. He will invade to prevent that story getting out. Probably within the week.