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LONG RANGE SAR

Old 21st Mar 2014, 20:16
  #161 (permalink)  
 
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Sun, it is my understanding that the UK SRR stretches to 30W. Personally, I don't have a view whether this should be a military task or not. After all, littoral SAR is alread provided by charity (RNLI), the coastguard (increasingly so) and the military. My concern is that the UK doesn't actually have any significant capability (regardless of the uniforms worn) beyond 10W. My home nation (Eire) currently has more to offer and our particular bit of the Atlantic is so much smaller.
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 20:48
  #162 (permalink)  
 
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CGB,

Fair points.

sun.
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 20:53
  #163 (permalink)  
 
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The MoD provides declared SAR facilities to cover military operations, exercises and training within the UK SRR. Although these resources are established primarily for military purposes, it is MoD policy to render assistance whenever possible to other persons, aircraft or vessels in distress. Where the coverage provided by military SAR assets meets the civil SAR requirement, they will be made available for civil aeronautical, maritime and land-based SAR operations.
Not our [read military] problem, guv!

LJ
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 21:09
  #164 (permalink)  
 
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Mk 1 Eyeball

In a search like this you need windows. Not Microsoft windows, perspex windows, and eyes looking out of them. A 737 with trained observers would be more use than a P8 in this scenario. Bits of airliner floating about in sea state 6 will not be detected by radar. IR sensors are too limited in field of view. MK1 eyeball is the primary sensor. Been there, done that. But you need a good datum, good assessment of surface drift and luck, lots of luck.
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 21:33
  #165 (permalink)  
 
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Captain radar said
Bits of airliner floating about in sea state 6 will not be detected by radar. IR sensors are too limited in field of view.
Neither of these things are (necessarily) true with (absolutely) state of the art sensors anymore.

Sun.
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 21:50
  #166 (permalink)  
 
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Captain Radar

Utter pish. You insult the trained crews doing this job. Have a word.
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 00:12
  #167 (permalink)  
 
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Quote:
The MoD provides declared SAR facilities to cover military operations, exercises and training within the UK SRR. Although these resources are established primarily for military purposes, it is MoD policy to render assistance whenever possible to other persons, aircraft or vessels in distress. Where the coverage provided by military SAR assets meets the civil SAR requirement, they will be made available for civil aeronautical, maritime and land-based SAR operations.


Hmmmm, so when SAR is civilianised, will rescue of downed military aircrew be on a "whenever possible" basis ? Just askin
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 04:12
  #168 (permalink)  
 
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Looks like a direct comparison between the P3, P8, C-130, 2 Japanese and whatever the 3 Chinese aircraft are as the Aust, US, NZ, Japanese and Chinese will all be operating out of RAAF Pearce South of Perth.

Will be interesting as it is an unprecedented level of joint operability.


If this is not suitable info for this thread I can delete it.

Last edited by 500N; 22nd Mar 2014 at 07:22.
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 07:57
  #169 (permalink)  
 
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RAAF Pearce

@500N

Minor point, but RAAF Pearce is north of Perth.

https://www.google.com.au/maps/place...04f0b618f0f060
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 10:28
  #170 (permalink)  
 
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For Captain radar...

"John Young of Amsa said planes were "flying relatively low" with "very highly skilled and trained observers looking out of the aircraft windows... to see objects"."


I'm sure the "very highly trained observers" would be really happy by your statement.
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 13:37
  #171 (permalink)  

 
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The nice editor of the London Independent was kind enough to publish a letter on Friday on the subject of the UK's lack of long range stuff.

If you're interested (and your butler failed to iron your print copy), you can find it at: (scroll down to fifth letter)
Letters: Budget bribe won?t help our grandchildren - Letters - Voices - The Independent

airsound

Last edited by airsound; 22nd Mar 2014 at 19:18. Reason: Can't count number of letters
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 15:04
  #172 (permalink)  
 
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Fugaz,

Yes, my mistake, thanks
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 16:57
  #173 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by airsound
The nice editor of the London Independent was kind enough to publish a letter on Friday on the subject of the UK's lack of long range stuff...
Well said (and written).
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 17:47
  #174 (permalink)  
 
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What are we waiting for? Some P8s are flying lots on the telly.
We have to buy a fleet right now! Lol.
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 19:04
  #175 (permalink)  
 
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Now, now, Jayand, sarcasm is the lowest form of...

I note that the Chinese have sent IL-76 for their search effort. What does this bring that a UK C-17 or C-130J couldn't bring? (Serious question!)



LJ
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 19:11
  #176 (permalink)  
 
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What does this bring that a UK C-17 or C-130J couldn't bring
Big glass bit under the nose.

Let me add my own question, why does the UK bit go to 30 W while the Irish bit only goes to 15W.
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 19:31
  #177 (permalink)  
 
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Oh Jayand....
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 19:35
  #178 (permalink)  
 
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LJ - noise and smoke

Daysleeper - you obviously haven't drank with an Irishman.
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 20:47
  #179 (permalink)  
 
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LJ,


Purely a guess but how about range and endurance?
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 21:26
  #180 (permalink)  
 
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Send three and fourpence....and a couple of extra windows

Captain Radar

Utter pish. You insult the trained crews doing this job. Have a word.
For Captain radar...

"John Young of Amsa said planes were "flying relatively low" with "very highly skilled and trained observers looking out of the aircraft windows... to see objects"."


I'm sure the "very highly trained observers" would be really happy by your statement.

Gentlemen, you misunderstand me. Probably my fault. John Young said what I said, and if you read it again I said TRAINED observers. The same trained observers that operate the P8 and all other MPA. Those of you that have spent as many hours as I have as a trained observer looking for lost vessels/people/aircraft in the ocean will understand that we used every tool in the box to try and locate whatever we were looking for. If it was something low in the water, or of low radar cross section we used windows. (Mind you, whatever we were looking for we looked out of the windows!) Perspex windows with trained professional observers. I just don't think the P8 has many windows and the trained professional operators could do with more of them. If they are looking for bits of carbon fibre, floating fuselage section, seat cushions, dinghies etc they need more windows. That's all. Utter Pish? Insulting the crews? No, not at all. Maybe the kit is that much better now. I hope so, but I bet it's not optimised to work at visual search heights, why would it be? The P8 itself isn't optimised to operate there, and that was my point. Sorry if I didn't make it very well.
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