LONG RANGE SAR
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The RNlN Atlantic also floated for some time and IIRC bits resurfaced a day r so later too.
http://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPD...20-%201153.PDF
Waves were apparently 30 feet.
http://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPD...20-%201153.PDF
Waves were apparently 30 feet.
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Vertical, a good insight into how other nations are taking their international SAR commitment seriously. Shame there's a hole in our AOR, where most NAT Tracks and many shipping lanes lie.
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This might be of interest to some. From one of the RAAF aircraft on the search.
Missing plane: on board the search flight
Missing plane: on board the search flight
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In October 1984 we operated our 42 Sqn/ Crew 6 Nimrod out of Pearce for 2 weeks on Exercise Sandgroper after our successful trip to Edinburgh field for a certain competition. I can't understand why Cameron hasn't deployed a couple out there plus tanker support in order to extend the ToT.
Oh dear, I've been dreaming again!!!! Cameron, you're a total f*ck wit.
Oh dear, I've been dreaming again!!!! Cameron, you're a total f*ck wit.
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Indeed. The Nimrod would have been quite useful.
Looking ahead, one hopes that this event is making UK PLC re-think its international obligations. It would all be rather embarrassing in the future if we had to ask the Malasians for knowledge/assistance somewhere West of 10W.
Looking ahead, one hopes that this event is making UK PLC re-think its international obligations. It would all be rather embarrassing in the future if we had to ask the Malasians for knowledge/assistance somewhere West of 10W.
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It would all be rather embarrassing in the future if we had to ask the Malasians for knowledge/assistance somewhere West of 10W.
Fincastle,
But Cameroon has taken decisive leadership action! After a week of waiting on the RN to find something available, he has now phoned his Malaysian oppo and offered to help. One of HM's glorified survey tugs is on it's way there now - at 7kts because the RN can't afford the fuel to go any faster!
But Cameroon has taken decisive leadership action! After a week of waiting on the RN to find something available, he has now phoned his Malaysian oppo and offered to help. One of HM's glorified survey tugs is on it's way there now - at 7kts because the RN can't afford the fuel to go any faster!
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The RAAF could extend the P-8A with inflight refuelling from a KC-30 if the boom worked...
Looking ahead, one hopes that this event is making UK PLC re-think its international obligations. It would all be rather embarrassing in the future if we had to ask the Malasians for knowledge/assistance somewhere West of 10W.
I posed this question earlier, the sentiments seemed to be:
No, it will not, neither one way, nor the other. Nor should it.
Utilising MPA for the search in this scenario is of course obvious,however this extremely rare event and the fact that any MPA would not be able to have saved anyone in Western European waters is hardly the evidence or persuading argument that will convince the government to go out and buy a fleet.
Long range SAR at 30W for a downed airliner would be as I have already said purely be a search for wreckage. There would be no rescue and an identical scenario in the UK area of responsibility would be terrible but, no MPA/MMA would make the blindest bit of difference to the outcome.
So why is so much effort being put in if
no MPA/MMA would make the blindest bit of difference to the outcome.
Sorry, we don't know what happened, we haven't the assets to find out, we're just presuming that they're all dead., it would cost too much to do anything else.
Last edited by Surplus; 21st Mar 2014 at 07:55.
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Just what Boeing would want, a fully fuelled P8 down at low level for long periods.
Remember, Rule 1 is never assume...
Quote:
Just what Boeing
would want, a fully fuelled P8 down at low level for long
periods.
Why do you say this? I guess you somehow figure that various scenarios have
not been studied.....
Remember, Rule 1 is never assume...
Just what Boeing
would want, a fully fuelled P8 down at low level for long
periods.
Why do you say this? I guess you somehow figure that various scenarios have
not been studied.....
Remember, Rule 1 is never assume...
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Flying an extended search looking for wreckage/bodies/liferaft in the water is a long and tiring business. Those who have never done it don't realise quite how hard it is to spot something in the water and at how short range. One of the advantages of an MPA is the number of eyes and windows available, not just the sensors on board.
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An extract from the link that Betty posted.
(My bold.)
So did it only go down to 5-10,000' or was he advised incorrectly? The journalist on the P8, quoted 3 hours transit, 3 hours onsta and 3 hours back to Perth, not quite a 9 hour search. I just wondered whether it was down in the weeds, or up high. It can't have done 9 hours onsta and down at MOA, doing a visual search.
The AP3Cs yesterday were, at times, down to 300' to avoid weather (low cloud and sea fog).
TBM
No aircraft would want to be low level, fully fuelled for long periods of time, it would play havoc with the fatigue life. I didn't mean that the P8 was any different, just making the point that air to air refuelling doesn't solve all the problems.
Seventh Fleet spokesman Cmdr. William J. Marks told the Wall Street Journal on Thursday that the plane has a maximum speed of 490 knots and can climb as high as 41,000 feet. But in this scenario the aircraft would be flying far lower and slower - at a height of 5,000-10,000 feet and at 350 knots - giving it a search time of up to nine hours, Marks told the newspaper.
So did it only go down to 5-10,000' or was he advised incorrectly? The journalist on the P8, quoted 3 hours transit, 3 hours onsta and 3 hours back to Perth, not quite a 9 hour search. I just wondered whether it was down in the weeds, or up high. It can't have done 9 hours onsta and down at MOA, doing a visual search.
The AP3Cs yesterday were, at times, down to 300' to avoid weather (low cloud and sea fog).
TBM
No aircraft would want to be low level, fully fuelled for long periods of time, it would play havoc with the fatigue life. I didn't mean that the P8 was any different, just making the point that air to air refuelling doesn't solve all the problems.
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Cows getting Bigger said:
Previously, when Surplus said:
Effectively implying this responsibility should be discharged by MoD.
a. I'm not convinced the UK has any legal obligation for SAR beyond the UK SRR (not the same as a moral obligation of course).
b. Why should it be the responsibility of Defence to conduct civilian SAR? I accept we should use capability were it exists, that's only right and moral, but spending money on Defence SAR capability, based on a civilian SAR use case, doesn't make sense. That's not how capability planning is conducted, nor should it be.
Sun.
Looking ahead, one hopes that this event is making UK PLC re-think its international obligations. It would all be rather embarrassing in the future if we had to ask the Malasians for knowledge/assistance somewhere West of 10W.
Will this tragic incident affect the decision whether to purchase P8 in the 2015 review?
a. I'm not convinced the UK has any legal obligation for SAR beyond the UK SRR (not the same as a moral obligation of course).
b. Why should it be the responsibility of Defence to conduct civilian SAR? I accept we should use capability were it exists, that's only right and moral, but spending money on Defence SAR capability, based on a civilian SAR use case, doesn't make sense. That's not how capability planning is conducted, nor should it be.
Sun.