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The South China Sea's Gathering Storm

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The South China Sea's Gathering Storm

Old 4th Mar 2020, 11:02
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Article published 3rd March on Reuters.

'Provocative' China pressures Taiwan with fighters, fake news amid virus outbreak

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Old 17th Mar 2020, 15:23
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https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1182886.shtml
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Old 18th Mar 2020, 12:03
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That's a very good illustration of the issue here - the Chinese think the whole SCS is their territorial waters
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 08:00
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Old 16th Apr 2020, 14:12
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Taiwan team discovers antibodies that can battle Wuhan coronavirus

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3912275

Time to shift things up a couple of gears.

Where art though Oh HMSQE/F35B ?
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Old 16th Apr 2020, 15:29
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I wonder how they are going to pay for this when the world looks set to reclaim its manufacturing capabilities back from China..
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Old 16th Apr 2020, 15:35
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Originally Posted by weemonkey
https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3912275

Time to shift things up a couple of gears.

Where art though Oh HMSQE/F35B ?
Are you seriously suggesting the UK should get into a war, even an economic war, with China???? It would be very embarrassing to put it mildly............. 1 small carrier, a couple of T-45's against the PLA (N) - 20 destroyers plus 50 frigates for a start
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Old 16th Apr 2020, 15:37
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
I wonder how they are going to pay for this when the world looks set to reclaim its manufacturing capabilities back from China..

Are they? Do you really think people won't go to the lowest cost provider as we've always done the moment the world opens up again??? Countries can't afford to subsidise vast swathes of manufacturing as they did 100 years ago
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Old 16th Apr 2020, 16:14
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I think a lot will change, penicillin for example, 40% of the US supply comes from China. Anything major and essential will move, It has started

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...2.cms?from=mdr
https://www.businessleader.co.uk/jap...f-china/82975/
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Old 17th Apr 2020, 02:08
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
Are they? Do you really think people won't go to the lowest cost provider as we've always done the moment the world opens up again??? Countries can't afford to subsidise vast swathes of manufacturing as they did 100 years ago
Trump's tariff wall shifts the low cost sourcing calculation. Moreover, it seems likely to have much more international appeal as the full cost of dependence on a single foreign source becomes clearer.
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Old 17th Apr 2020, 08:35
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But the use of electromagnetic weapons, including low-energy laser devices, could be viable, as they can temporarily paralyze US ships' weapon and control systems without visible conflict but can send a strong warning, according to Song.
Would this tactic not be equally effective the other way around? Seems a rather short-sighted comment to be making IMO.
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Old 17th Apr 2020, 11:59
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
Are you seriously suggesting the UK should get into a war, even an economic war, with China???? It would be very embarrassing to put it mildly............. 1 small carrier, a couple of T-45's against the PLA (N) - 20 destroyers plus 50 frigates for a start
As both myself and spouse are in the "recovery" phase of the Wuhan pestilence trust me when I say that the UK giving the CCP a reminder of the term "free navigation" is the very LEAST of options that are going through my mind at present.

The world has to stand up to this regime, this regime that has unleashed such a catastrophic disease upon the world.

The UK, the mother of all democracies, we should be in the forefront of RETRIBUTION.

Or are you just another Kier Starmer/ Bill Gates. [ dodgy knight of the realm, multi millionaire and NOT a Dr] ?

Last edited by weemonkey; 17th Apr 2020 at 12:12.
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Old 19th Apr 2020, 10:59
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Originally Posted by weemonkey
As both myself and spouse are in the "recovery" phase of the Wuhan pestilence trust me when I say that the UK giving the CCP a reminder of the term "free navigation" is the very LEAST of options that are going through my mind at present.

The world has to stand up to this regime, this regime that has unleashed such a catastrophic disease upon the world.

The UK, the mother of all democracies, we should be in the forefront of RETRIBUTION.

Or are you just another Kier Starmer/ Bill Gates. [ dodgy knight of the realm, multi millionaire and NOT a Dr] ?
WM

firstly, I hope you and your spouse recover fully from this awful virus. My Ex wife is a nurse and caught this while treating people at hospital. She tells me that it was the most vile despicable thing that she has ever gone through. She rang the ambulance at one point due to difficulties in breathing. Triage was that extreme that they told her she didn't need an ambulance because she could say a sentence without coughing or fainting so wasn't a priority.

I am wondering what you mean by standing up to China? What retribution are you thinking? Do you honestly think that China deliberately unleashed this upon the world while killing its own citizens; a biological MAD policy? Personally I don't think this is the case.

Should you wish retribution, there are two options, IMHO, that could be used. Firstly we could hit them economically. This would involve a whole-world effort and agreement to hit China where it hurts and economically isolate China. Bring back all factories. Don't buy Chinese goods. Stop all trade whatsoever. Expel Chinese workers etc. This may bring China to the table with the idea of claiming some sort of compensation tied with guarantees that they stop whatever practices we wish for them to stop. On the other hand, with their backs to the wall, the Chinese may push back militarily or financially. Call in all debts etc.
We could hit them militarily but this is something that I would not suggest. We would lose more than we would hope to gain.

Is there any chance, once you get better, that you could give us an idea of what your idea of Retribution is please?
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Old 19th Apr 2020, 11:41
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It appears some people are keen on revenge so they can add to the total numbers of people dead.

Blaming China for this overlooks who should be blamed for other viruses that cut swathes through mankind at different time from different countrys.

Bearing in mind it is clear that Western Intelligence services had picked up on this in early November, well before even the Chinese knew it was an outbreak and did nothing then who is at fault ? Israeli's quite open they were warned along with NATO allies then yet nobody did anything.

China is not responsible for many countrys health services being underresourced and lacking equipment, that is a home grown decision. Likewise China is not responsible for any countrys, even as the outbreak developing, taking cockeyed decisions like herd immunity, not buying PPE and many other actions until it was already too late.

It has been China and Russia who have been offering assistance to many countries while their supposed earstwhile allies have done nothing, Italy was left to fend for itself as was Spain but are they not a key NATO ally ?

Even NATO shrills, when Russian personnel arrived, did another of their Integrity Iniative propoganda pieces to claim Russian help was not right equipment, untrained people and just a smokescreen. Strange that it was the Italians from Premier down who openly called the shrills Liars and grateful of the assistance.

Ireland had Chinese ambasssador make an open offer of help and Aer Lingus sent 60 flights to bring the offered equioment home, seems Ireland didn't trust others shipping it, their view seems to be borne out by French / German claims of equipment going missing. Even Peru obtaining PPE this weekend is refusing to say how delivered in case someone steps in to take its order.

The idea that UK can take back its manufacturing is laughable, the "Key" food industry at the lowest level is people by immigrants paid minimum / living wage, UK is importing people to harvest produce because locals not able to do it.

If people want to ask questions of Governments then starting with the complete incompetence of their own is a good start. The media hype of the 99 year old pensioner is a great smokescreen to hide behind.

In going into ANY war the key requirement is to ensure the leadership is safe, under full protection and cannot be got near by an enemy. Hell UK failed in every single regard here because numerous members of the leadership team were absent at key moments.

Looking closer to home for the abject failure will not happen because it is so much easier to jump on a Xenophobic rant inspried by the media / politicians covering up their own incomptencece at a specific race. The 1930's showed what happens here.
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Old 19th Apr 2020, 11:51
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Originally Posted by weemonkey
As both myself and spouse are in the "recovery" phase of the Wuhan pestilence trust me when I say that the UK giving the CCP a reminder of the term "free navigation" is the very LEAST of options that are going through my mind at present. The world has to stand up to this regime, this regime that has unleashed such a catastrophic disease upon the world. The UK, the mother of all democracies, we should be in the forefront of RETRIBUTION. Or are you just another Kier Starmer/ Bill Gates. [ dodgy knight of the realm, multi millionaire and NOT a Dr] ?
Monkey - re-read your post - this is madness............. you can't go round exacting "retribution" on a country when a disease starts there. Maybe nuke Sierra Leone because a few people in the KK caught Ebola there a few years back. The idea the Chinese "unleashed the disease" is Trumpian false news - if anything they "unleashed " it on themselves

You have a (cmon) a simple desire to blame someone for a personal misfortune - I have close friends and colleagues recovering from the disease (some mild, some serious) but I don't think they think President Xi is behind it all.
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Old 19th Apr 2020, 23:44
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It makes no sense to blame China for this disaster, there was plenty of coverage of the outbreak and the carnage it wrought, yet no one in authority had the strength or the wit to act.
The WHO would not declare a pandemic, too embarrassing, the US CDC said not to worry, plus the public does not need masks, to disguise the reality that there was a huge shortage of masks, even for doctors and nurses, plus testing was restricted, even though the CDC tests were late and ineffective because of contamination.
The litany of errors is a long one, almost all of them here at home. So we need to get our act together first, before we start correcting others.
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Old 20th Apr 2020, 09:40
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Uk the mother of all democracies? really i thought that was Greece oddly enough.
And as for that phrase today what a joke , as has oft been said once said the UK is a democracy for a day once every five years. As for today we have an utterly corrupt print media owned by people whose family supported Hitler, allowed, the current PM to use their front page daily with no balancing articles, tax evaders and scurrilous billionaire media moguls pushing their own agenda

And us standing up to China well two big problems there:

1 We could barely stand up to Taiwan these days especially on their doorstep
2 Morally, we have a few historical issues with China and forced supplies of opium, Shanghai , HK etc

And as always more concerned with 'our place in the world' than with the welfare of our citizens
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Old 20th Apr 2020, 17:20
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Old 22nd Apr 2020, 13:11
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Originally Posted by Toadstool
WM

firstly, I hope you and your spouse recover fully from this awful virus. My Ex wife is a nurse and caught this while treating people at hospital. She tells me that it was the most vile despicable thing that she has ever gone through. She rang the ambulance at one point due to difficulties in breathing. Triage was that extreme that they told her she didn't need an ambulance because she could say a sentence without coughing or fainting so wasn't a priority.

I am wondering what you mean by standing up to China? What retribution are you thinking? Do you honestly think that China deliberately unleashed this upon the world while killing its own citizens; a biological MAD policy? Personally I don't think this is the case.

Should you wish retribution, there are two options, IMHO, that could be used. Firstly we could hit them economically. This would involve a whole-world effort and agreement to hit China where it hurts and economically isolate China. Bring back all factories. Don't buy Chinese goods. Stop all trade whatsoever. Expel Chinese workers etc. This may bring China to the table with the idea of claiming some sort of compensation tied with guarantees that they stop whatever practices we wish for them to stop. On the other hand, with their backs to the wall, the Chinese may push back militarily or financially. Call in all debts etc.
We could hit them militarily but this is something that I would not suggest. We would lose more than we would hope to gain.

Is there any chance, once you get better, that you could give us an idea of what your idea of Retribution is please?
Thank you for your good wishes we both are slowly recovering, fatigue is the main issue that and the cough...

I will admit that I posted in a somewhat tired and emotional state however.. "Retribution" a bit strong for some of you?
Say that to the families of the 17,000 plus who have perished already in the UK.
Some on here do seem to be detached from that awful growing figure. Racedo, pax Britannia et al please remind us of the 911 death toll....

Personally I think the CCP is on it's last legs.

I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if in the coming year(s) they find their stranglehold on information removed by a constellation of 30k cubesats...

And if their adventures of the far side of the moon (remember that) were to suddenly fall silent~~oh dear what a shame never mind....
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Old 22nd Apr 2020, 22:23
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Originally Posted by weemonkey
Thank you for your good wishes we both are slowly recovering, fatigue is the main issue that and the cough...

I will admit that I posted in a somewhat tired and emotional state however.. "Retribution" a bit strong for some of you?
Say that to the families of the 17,000 plus who have perished already in the UK.
Some on here do seem to be detached from that awful growing figure. Racedo, pax Britannia et al please remind us of the 911 death toll....

Personally I think the CCP is on it's last legs.

I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if in the coming year(s) they find their stranglehold on information removed by a constellation of 30k cubesats...

And if their adventures of the far side of the moon (remember that) were to suddenly fall silent~~oh dear what a shame never mind....
I know 12 people personally in a number of countries who have already died from this, including the dad of a secondary school classmate who I knew well whose mother also has it. Last Sunday at the Catholic church I attend we prayed online for 3 people whom I know from attending there who died last week, this weekend I expect similar if not worse numbers.

One of my closest friends is a GP who gets suited up to see a patient but not sure they will have enough PPE next week but you know what they will still go, she has not seen her son in 5 weeks, my best mates daughter is doing minimum 80 hr weeks in Covid wards in London hoping if she gets it she will survive and a lot of Phillipino nurses I know either by name or as friends of friends who attend same church are on the front line at hospitals in Surrey.

Yet somehow because we don't want blood spilled we are "detached".
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