PVRs started.....

[sidewayspeak]

I'm waiting for the chance of redundancy because I am most definitely in it for me now. If that doesn't happen, then Y & B handle. In the meantime, I give nothing to this organisation. Nothing.

[Party Animal]

Sadly, BEagle pretty much sums it up. Interesting too that over the last few years, we have had a shortage of pilots and a surplus of navs. This wasn't such a bad thing as navs were filling a lot of the crap staff jobs that pilots used to do and collectively, the RAF was still short of aircrew overall. It now looks like the navs are about to be culled and Manning are under the (d)elusion that pilots will once again fill staff posts originally allocated to them.

So as we continue to spiral downhill, the organisation is going to have to accept aircrew who have just taken a massive pay cut and can't get out quick enough working alongside navs (and AEO's and Air Eng's) who are facing the chop (great motivational booster) or are seeing out their 12 months redundancy notice. How much interest and commitment does anyone think we are going to get from these people?

Even worse in this electronic age. How much damage can the above create under a cloud of bitterness before they go? Oops, there goes another electronic file deleted by mistake?

I guess time will tell but personally, I think we're in for 5 or more years of something akin to the 'dark ages'. If anyone cares to disagree, please feel free to reply with optimism and raise readers morale over the rest of this week!

[xenolith]

This is so sad. I understood that the RAF had ditched the 'Investors In People' bullsh1t as a cost cutting measure. It would appear that the paymasters wont allow it to invest in its people anymore. I did my 22 and left as I'd done all that I wanted to; the proverbial isn't greener, just different and something to get used to and all of you have loads of experience at that. Why do the government/civil servants get it so consistantly wrong about the forces? Is it because they are complacent about how much crap they can pile on you?

[sidewayspeak]

Makes me angry that MOD think they can hold us for 12 months when they have changed the rules such that post-2013 they can make us redundant with just 3 months notice!

Sorry MOD, you can't have your cake and eat it. When I start looking for a job, and if I am lucky enough to get one, your DIN will not stop me handing in my month's notice and walking. And I am happy to be that man that publically challenges the system. They can stop me talking to the press....but not my family.

F*&$ the MOD.

[High_Expect]

Well said that man... Does anyone know if anyone is trying this at the moment?

With a job lined up how can they expect you to suffer a 20% pay cut for 12 months. With no 'return of service' in effect I don't remember signing anything that says I have to put my family in financial hardship. Did I blink and miss being sent to prison?

Anyone know an employment lawyer?

[Farfrompuken]

I'm hearing as of Wednesday - 1yr PVR times and Zero fg pay for the period.

1 year PVRs from last week. 0% flying pay from 1 Apr 12.

The legalities of docking your pension are looking a tad dubious. I know they say you get 105-110% for staying till your exit point, but as your basic wage is unchanged and taxable, then it should receive the same pension, PVR or not. Otherwise those getting the full (110%) pension need to pay more tax.

Same with PA. As your pension is based on your full basic salary which is unchanged if you PVR before your 5 year point, you therefore have to receive a pension based on your full basic salary.

Might be worth some legal advice on that one......

Edit:

Plus if they've suddenly changed the flying pay bit to 0 from last wednesday that will be on thin ice; if you impose such a long (6-12 month) notice with published and notified existing financial penalties, then that is fine as you can plan financially. If they've docked Flying Pay just like that for all existing PVRs, then they've totally removed any financial planning ability and are being irresponsible (almost a breach of contract there). Plus absenteeism will go through the roof due stress etc. Negating the benefit of nailing these guys to the cross for 12 months!

[thefodfather]

I left in Feb and it was only having started in a new big organisation who treat their staff with respect did I realise quite how bad things had got. I learnt more about the vision and goals of the leadership in my new place in the first 2 weeks than I ever got in the RAF over 20+ years. Someone in my dept screwed up the other day, no witch-hunt for the guilty and no one got shouted at, we fixed the problem like adults and then worked out how to learn from it, I nearly fell over with surprise.

[ralphmalph]

I am speechless. The slip into chaos is starting. There is not sign of the pace of life letting up and this happens.

The Lynx force will reduce from 920 to about 650 over the next 3 years, continue to operate with Mk9A in HERRICK at the same pace and also field WILDCAT......anyone that thinks that this will end any other way than by people voting with feet is deluded. Perhaps that is the plan!?

The fact that we are now effectivly trapped with a 12 month hold and at worst a £13,000 pay cut has completely stripped me of any loyalty.

Get me out of here as quickly as possible.

Surely if someone finds a job offer after the MOD has changed our "Terms of Service" so radically, then refusing release is almost akin to discrimination.

Is it worth getting a group of people together and seeking some decent legal advice?

If it all pans out to be too painful and a 12 month delay is inevitable, then I will be unfit to fly from stress and the MOD can whistle if they think they will get anything out of me....fact.

Absolutley gutted. Making exit financially unviable and restricting outflow is a dangerous game to play!

[davejb]

I can't help but think that a civvy court would have some difficulty understanding why aircrew whose flying pay was stopped should still be expected to fly... dunno about reality, but there's something really mad sounding about that idea.

"I'm not getting FP, so I'm not F'ing...." or perhaps
"Can't clear my ears....they're full of boll*x"

[high spirits]

Or you leave at an option point with no loss of FP.... Seems obvious that manning is running scared. Still, if they cut all those HQ staff non-jobs (replace SO2 J3 with SLOPs) and get rid of the MAA monster (call it Flight Safety or something) they would be able to field a few more Aircrew. I wonder if some journo were to ask the question as to how many qualified pilots there are in non flying jobs in the military, what the answer would be....??

[VinRouge]

I really do despair when people refer to the MAA as a "monster". They are going to be the last thing between us and potentially losing a hell of a lot of people once the cuts REALLY start to bite. Things are pretty unpleasant as they are, with serious scaling back of frontline crews, aircrew being put out to pasture, whilst those remaining struggle to cope with the same level of tasking.

Anyone thinking that holding senior rank and ministers culpable for bone decisions (cuts being one of them) leading to a non-operational loss of aircraft needs their heads feeling!

[The Old Fat One]

"I'm not getting FP, so I'm not F'ing...." or perhaps
"Can't clear my ears....they're full of boll*x"

It is much easier than that. You just walk into your bosses office and tell him (on the record) you are a risk to aviation...put it in my 5000 please. Any old reason will do...stress, depression, whatever.

Of course, for the professionally motivated person that's way easier to say than to do...and there is the (very remote) possibility that it could follow you into civvy life.

But for the seriously f**ked off, who does not give a shisen anymore, it is an unplayable "in your face".

[high spirits]

Vin rouge.
Make them an independent organisation from the senior officers and ministers, and they will have some credibility....

Until then, they are a tainted outfit.

[thefodfather]

Who mentioned the MAA first? Surely there are worse things to worry about right now than arguing about the degree of independence of the MAA. Or, I'm sensing I might be wrong. Vin Rouge, right as usual though.

[Lima Juliet]

Reading the 82 page DRU document and I see the MAA is going to die

Only to be merged with other safety outfits into the Defence Safety Authority...now where does that put all the MAA regulatory instructions, etc...?

LJ

[Al R]

TOF1: It is much easier than that. You just walk into your bosses office and tell him (on the record) you are a risk to aviation...put it in my 5000 please. Any old reason will do...stress, depression, whatever.

Make sure you've got you've got up to 65% of that flying pay insured first..

[Willard Whyte]

I wonder if some journo were to ask the question as to how many qualified pilots there are in non flying jobs in the military, what the answer would be....??

I wonder how many want to be in those desk jobs. WSOs too, of all denominations.

[Runaway Gun]

In such difficult times, how can OC's and Flight Commanders continue to maintain flight safety, efficiency and morale? I mean, there's only so many "grit your teeth and get on with it boys, we have another bumpy ride ahead" speeches that we can take.

NB. I am not an OC or Flt Cdr.

[skaterboi]

Slightly off topic but relevant question....if you accept promotion to Sqn Ldr at age 36 does your 16/38 option point cease to exist and become a 44 option point? If so, and you still want to leave at 38-39 years old, do you then have to PVR with associated loss of Flying Pay?

Also I've seen conflicting advice about amortising the pension; is it 2 years or 3 years service?

[The Old Fat One]

RG

I was and the answer is ...with honesty.

The overwhelming majority of Sqn chaps and chapesses are first rate people, who need very little leading and even less "arm round the shoulder" stuff. Most of them can sniff out bullsh1t at 500 paces. Treat them with honesty and they will respect you, even if they are pretty f**ked off with the service.

If them above don't like the message you are delivering to them below, that is their problem and theirs alone.

@skaterboi. It was 2 years in 2001. I was promoted 1 Jan 2001 and left via PVR in 2003 on a Sqn Ldr's pension.

Don't know if it has changed since.